Are transitioning players "supposed to lose" in PvP?

The Herald

DaveR4470 wrote:

PvP needs to be completely and thoroughly overhauled. As in, down to the foundations.

It's a problem when half the game is an utter and complete waste of time for about 85% of the total game population.

They should have been committed to making it work before they took a hatchet to it. The only difference between the two systems is that before in the exploited points flood everyone got a shot at progression.

The same top players are doing just as well but now there's a widening gap, 10CP being achievable to most people now is the difference.

shusheshe

bOmbast wrote:

Echoing the experience of the OP.

I'm a 3* player, shield rank 54, in the early days of my 4* transistion (starting to put ISO into a few 4*s), got 32 champed 3* but no real usable 4* (12 cover Iceman at lvl 130 the closest).

Get to 600 easily, then I start getting hit - and when/if I make it past 700 my Q is full of IM40/champed Thoress teams. If I can q another 3* team, the matches take ages because of LC's 20k HP. So, one match hops worth max 40 points is the only option - and I have neither time nor shields enough for that to work out.

If I stay out, I get hit on average twice for every match I win, making me tread water around the 700 mark.

This is my experience, EXACTLY. Shield rank 57, I champed the last of my 3* a week or two back and is just starting to put ISO into a few select characters. I have ONE fully covered 4* (teen jean, at 166).

You're lucky...I haven't been able to touch 900 yet even once. I got to 880, then was smacked down 120 points in the search for the last 20 points to 900.

SnowcaTT

I think the 10CP/15CP break will help transitioners quite a bit. It will take time...and D3 says they want it to.

However, the D losses points haven't gone nearly far enough. Still hearing from team-mates nearing 1200 about going into matches, winning 50 (or less), losing 150. D losses at that point should be no more than -20, and possibly -10.

Make them ramp way up after 1200 for those trying placement, fine. But without CC's, now folks can't shield-hop fast enough to possibly win three times without being hit 2-3 times back and losing as many points as they gain! Those between 900 and 1200 shouldn't see the same loss totals that were seen previously...and it seems to be (nearly) the same.

mpqr7

Since progression is so much harder, then now the last few battles to reach 1200 are only worth 20 points or less, so it's a very slow crawl, and you are very open to being attacked for 50+ point losses. It seems silly to shield hop at 1100 points and need to do three or more battles to reach 1200.

Konman

Transitioning players only need to get to 575 progression to get 10CP, which is super easy. I never got to 1300 before, which is where all the CP used to live.

Only CP I ever used to earn from PVP was getting a top 50 placement, and that was for a single CP!

It is so much better than it was before if transition to 4* is what you are interested in.

GurlBYE

Konman wrote:

Transitioning players only need to get to 575 progression to get 10CP, which is super easy. I never got to 1300 before, which is where all the CP used to live.

Only CP I ever used to earn from PVP was getting a top 50 placement, and that was for a single CP!

It is so much better than it was before if transition to 4* is what you are interested in.

Transitioning players could also use the 3 star cover that is beyond that.

Please don't try and excuse the **** system for what you think people deserve for their efforts.


Better than it was before doesn't mean much when people are trying to fully cover 4 stars in the same space as rosters who have champed 4 stars.

You the path has gotten smoother at a ridiculously slower rate then its gotten bigger.

And no it's the same or worse. There are 40 4 stars now.

It's the 3 star transition without DDQ. To say anything otherwise is using the past games end game with the current games reality. Aside from the newly added 4 star in PVE (that has been skipped in the last 2 pve events) every direct path to a 4 star is competing directly with people looking for another champ level.

The game overall is getting better slowly but at a much slower pace then the games advancing.

GurlBYE

aesthetocyst wrote:

This is a partial cross-post from this thread. The threads remind me of each other ... both are echoing themes that have run on this forum since PVP began. We can't solves PVP's problems, we can only play or not play, and help each other if we choose to play.
__________________

The "problem" of getting hit multiple times isn't a problem of mechanics, it's a problem of expectations. ELO is a cold, rational system for numerically evaluating the participants in a competitive system. It leverages mob action to induce corrections in that marketplace. Participants who are overvalued will be knoecked down. It's supposed to work that way. Climbing is initially easy and gradually becomes harder, and the speed of that transition reflects the strength of your team relative to the mean strength of the other participants.

The devs have already introduced MMR and several scoring modifiers to manipulate the PVP market, to skew it in favor of allowing players to climb higher. It certainly has plenty of technical imperfections (that get beat to death on this forum and seemingly will never be resolved), but the basic principles are sound.

It is supposed to get harder to climb farther. Are some progressions supposed to be out of the reach of some players? Obviously, yes. They aren't entitlements. They are brass rings to reach, and it's meant to take time.

Yes, the progressions at various Clearance Levels sure could use some tweaking, and I hope the devs get there.

The most important thing for any frustrated PVP player is for someone to come along and say, "Yes, you CAN do this!" and then to show them how. Show them how PVP works, warts and all, and how to succeed at it, and how much fun it can be. Gipsy Danger did that for me (so long ago...), and I've tried to help others.

It's a multiplayer game, and playing it alone, or in a quiet, unsupportive alliance, isn't much fun. Reach out to people. We're nice. Some of us. Mostly. (Forum personas notwithstanding.)

the issue with the part that i underlined is that that should be the point of placement not progression, especially since they are so intricately tied at the moment.

Currently without spending, you will never place higher than someone with a 5 star roster unless they game simply stops creating new characters for enough time that you'll catch up. There is no "you'll join this club of high achievers" at this date or rank or roster, in a growing game with a shifting instead of growing endgame.

It's very Sisyphean task, by the time current 3 stars get to 5, there could potentially be a 6 or 7 star tier to deal with.

Because of a lack of retroactively adding useful characters of all tiers or leveling there powers to close friends, there's no way to progress to reach those heights at the moment.

Rewards have also been stagnant for too long, placement and progress wise.

a 4 star has been added to pve progression (inconsistently) 38 or 39 in.
1000 got bumped down to 900 this far in.

dsds

GurlBYE wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

This is a partial cross-post from this thread. The threads remind me of each other ... both are echoing themes that have run on this forum since PVP began. We can't solves PVP's problems, we can only play or not play, and help each other if we choose to play.
__________________

The "problem" of getting hit multiple times isn't a problem of mechanics, it's a problem of expectations. ELO is a cold, rational system for numerically evaluating the participants in a competitive system. It leverages mob action to induce corrections in that marketplace. Participants who are overvalued will be knoecked down. It's supposed to work that way. Climbing is initially easy and gradually becomes harder, and the speed of that transition reflects the strength of your team relative to the mean strength of the other participants.

The devs have already introduced MMR and several scoring modifiers to manipulate the PVP market, to skew it in favor of allowing players to climb higher. It certainly has plenty of technical imperfections (that get beat to death on this forum and seemingly will never be resolved), but the basic principles are sound.

It is supposed to get harder to climb farther. Are some progressions supposed to be out of the reach of some players? Obviously, yes. They aren't entitlements. They are brass rings to reach, and it's meant to take time.

Yes, the progressions at various Clearance Levels sure could use some tweaking, and I hope the devs get there.

The most important thing for any frustrated PVP player is for someone to come along and say, "Yes, you CAN do this!" and then to show them how. Show them how PVP works, warts and all, and how to succeed at it, and how much fun it can be. Gipsy Danger did that for me (so long ago...), and I've tried to help others.

It's a multiplayer game, and playing it alone, or in a quiet, unsupportive alliance, isn't much fun. Reach out to people. We're nice. Some of us. Mostly. (Forum personas notwithstanding.)

the issue with the part that i underlined is that that should be the point of placement not progression, especially since they are so intricately tied at the moment.

Currently without spending, you will never place higher than someone with a 5 star roster unless they game simply stops creating new characters for enough time that you'll catch up. There is no "you'll join this club of high achievers" at this date or rank or roster, in a growing game with a shifting instead of growing endgame.

It's very Sisyphean task, by the time current 3 stars get to 5, there could potentially be a 6 or 7 star tier to deal with.

Because of a lack of retroactively adding useful characters of all tiers or leveling there powers to close friends, there's no way to progress to reach those heights at the moment.

Rewards have also been stagnant for too long, placement and progress wise.

a 4 star has been added to pve progression (inconsistently) 38 or 39 in.
1000 got bumped down to 900 this far in.

Your analysis is true. The game is meant to be played this way. They want you to spend. It helps to keep the game going. It could be better, but shouldn't be too much better. Progression is supposed to be hard and you aren't supposed to get everything on the progression reward list. They put more than what you can get on the progression reward list to entice you to spend to get them. Unfortunately, the micro transactions is what keeps the game going.

In the past with cupcakes, that was an exploit that was not punishable, people were getting better rewards than they were supposed to. It wasn't meant to be like that, so please don't compare it to from before when cupcakes were around.

dan54321

I'm increasingly hearing from players in my alliance that PVP is only worth going to 575 now. It's just too miserable an experience now to keep going higher. Mind you, I'm hearing this from people who use mid-range 5* at around level 360-405. So you can imagine how unpleasant it is for people with 4* or 3* rosters.

The only people not suffering in this new system are people who already have champed 5*.

Everyone is now beating up on lower rosters a lot more, since there are very few points available with the death of cupcakes. So everyone is suffering except champed 5*.

If this is not fixed somehow, maybe by drastically lessening the points lost when you get hit, a lot of people are going to be quitting PVP or only shooting for 575.

If this can't be fixed, they need to bring cupcakes back, so the points in the shards are higher and people aren't suffering as badly.

Fightmastermpq

GurlBYE wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

This is a partial cross-post from this thread. The threads remind me of each other ... both are echoing themes that have run on this forum since PVP began. We can't solves PVP's problems, we can only play or not play, and help each other if we choose to play.
__________________

The "problem" of getting hit multiple times isn't a problem of mechanics, it's a problem of expectations. ELO is a cold, rational system for numerically evaluating the participants in a competitive system. It leverages mob action to induce corrections in that marketplace. Participants who are overvalued will be knoecked down. It's supposed to work that way. Climbing is initially easy and gradually becomes harder, and the speed of that transition reflects the strength of your team relative to the mean strength of the other participants.

The devs have already introduced MMR and several scoring modifiers to manipulate the PVP market, to skew it in favor of allowing players to climb higher. It certainly has plenty of technical imperfections (that get beat to death on this forum and seemingly will never be resolved), but the basic principles are sound.

It is supposed to get harder to climb farther. Are some progressions supposed to be out of the reach of some players? Obviously, yes. They aren't entitlements. They are brass rings to reach, and it's meant to take time.

Yes, the progressions at various Clearance Levels sure could use some tweaking, and I hope the devs get there.

The most important thing for any frustrated PVP player is for someone to come along and say, "Yes, you CAN do this!" and then to show them how. Show them how PVP works, warts and all, and how to succeed at it, and how much fun it can be. Gipsy Danger did that for me (so long ago...), and I've tried to help others.

It's a multiplayer game, and playing it alone, or in a quiet, unsupportive alliance, isn't much fun. Reach out to people. We're nice. Some of us. Mostly. (Forum personas notwithstanding.)

the issue with the part that i underlined is that that should be the point of placement not progression, especially since they are so intricately tied at the moment.

Currently without spending, you will never place higher than someone with a 5 star roster unless they game simply stops creating new characters for enough time that you'll catch up. There is no "you'll join this club of high achievers" at this date or rank or roster, in a growing game with a shifting instead of growing endgame.

It's very Sisyphean task, by the time current 3 stars get to 5, there could potentially be a 6 or 7 star tier to deal with.

Because of a lack of retroactively adding useful characters of all tiers or leveling there powers to close friends, there's no way to progress to reach those heights at the moment.

Rewards have also been stagnant for too long, placement and progress wise.

a 4 star has been added to pve progression (inconsistently) 38 or 39 in.
1000 got bumped down to 900 this far in.

This is false. Anyone with 2 champed 5*s can place as high as others with champed 5*s. There are a few exceptions when you start talking about guys with level 500+ characters, but there are very few of these players. Eventually you will catch up. Just like Thorverine was all you needed to be successful and adding a champed Fury or IW didn't really help much - adding a champed BSS, or IM, or Black Bolt, or whatever the latest 5* is really doesn't make you that much more competitive than a 5* newbie that just champed their OML/Phx (Or BSS/GG for that matter, almost any two 5*s is enough to be successful).

TLCstormz

Are transitioning players "supposed to lose" in PvP?

Uhm......clearly.......

OneLastGambit

The title says are we supposed to lose but the tone of the OP and nearly every response except a couple say "waaaaa bring back my cupcakes "

If the new system is so unbelievably hard without cupcakes that tells you something about the quality of your roster. Well developed rosters are supposed to get to the best prizes if you have a 3* roster and regularly got to 1300 in old system then you were punching well above your weight and sequence jumping. Nobody is entitled to prizes, you're supposed to improve your roster over time and earn those better prizes, not abuse a loop hole and go straight to the Stanley cup final without playing the earlier rounds.

Also just a quick question... If you were all hitting 1300 regularly before with 3* rosters...what in the name of odins beard did you spend all that cp on? Surely you should have A solid 4* roster now?

Finally if you don't have at least a couple of champed 4* yes the big prizes will be much harder to obtain.

The Herald

OneLastGambit wrote:

The title says are we supposed to lose but the tone of the OP and nearly every response except a couple say "waaaaa bring back my cupcakes "

If the new system is so unbelievably hard without cupcakes that tells you something about the quality of your roster. Well developed rosters are supposed to get to the best prizes if you have a 3* roster and regularly got to 1300 in old system then you were punching well above your weight and sequence jumping. Nobody is entitled to prizes, you're supposed to improve your roster over time and earn those better prizes, not abuse a loop hole and go straight to the Stanley cup final without playing the earlier rounds.

Also just a quick question... If you were all hitting 1300 regularly before with 3* rosters...what in the name of odins beard did you spend all that cp on? Surely you should have A solid 4* roster now?

Finally if you don't have at least a couple of champed 4* yes the big prizes will be much harder to obtain.

I wasn't hitting final progression.

I don't expect to hit final progression (which always struck me as more for 4*-5* transitioners anyway).

Before, when there were more points available, if I worked at it and watched my shield hopping, I could get to 1000 and get a 4* cover.

Adding a 4* cover to my mostly 3* roster.

The problem is that by playing the game I lose points instead of gain them after a certain point, and that certain point is just short of getting a 4* cover.

I progressed really well last Season. I have no fully covered 4*s, but I have four usable ones instead of zero.

Aaaaand that's it for now.

PvE with clearance covers back is going to help. That's a 4* plus 25 CP each Story cycle, so my progress hasn't stalled completely.

I will probably be dropping down to CL6 in PvP though. Get 3*s from Placement instead of 2*s.

OneLastGambit

The Herald wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

The title says are we supposed to lose but the tone of the OP and nearly every response except a couple say "waaaaa bring back my cupcakes "

If the new system is so unbelievably hard without cupcakes that tells you something about the quality of your roster. Well developed rosters are supposed to get to the best prizes if you have a 3* roster and regularly got to 1300 in old system then you were punching well above your weight and sequence jumping. Nobody is entitled to prizes, you're supposed to improve your roster over time and earn those better prizes, not abuse a loop hole and go straight to the Stanley cup final without playing the earlier rounds.

Also just a quick question... If you were all hitting 1300 regularly before with 3* rosters...what in the name of odins beard did you spend all that cp on? Surely you should have A solid 4* roster now?

Finally if you don't have at least a couple of champed 4* yes the big prizes will be much harder to obtain.

I wasn't hitting final progression.

I don't expect to hit final progression (which always struck me as more for 4*-5* transitioners anyway).

Before, when there were more points available, if I worked at it and watched my shield hopping, I could get to 1000 and get a 4* cover.

Adding a 4* cover to my mostly 3* roster.

The problem is that by playing the game I lose points instead of gain them after a certain point, and that certain point is just short of getting a 4* cover.

I progressed really well last Season. I have no fully covered 4*s, but I have four usable ones instead of zero.

Aaaaand that's it for now.

PvE with clearance covers back is going to help. That's a 4* plus 25 CP each Story cycle, so my progress hasn't stalled completely.

I will probably be dropping down to CL6 in PvP though. Get 3*s from Placement instead of 2*s.

It's odd how different personal experience is, in the previous system I hit 1k 5 times (4 of which were in the season just gone) in a year of play that was 5 times we can cut that short to 6 months if we only count the time I've understood PvP and played properly.

I've got the 4* in both events so far and did so incredibly easily by climbing both late and early. It's hard to tell as it's only 2 events in But so far I've had easy climbs with less hits and made above my target every time.

In addition to this the new auto defense team feature means I see a greater variety of opponents. Its a shame my experience isn't universal as it's a very positive one.

dsds

OneLastGambit wrote:

The Herald wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

The title says are we supposed to lose but the tone of the OP and nearly every response except a couple say "waaaaa bring back my cupcakes "

If the new system is so unbelievably hard without cupcakes that tells you something about the quality of your roster. Well developed rosters are supposed to get to the best prizes if you have a 3* roster and regularly got to 1300 in old system then you were punching well above your weight and sequence jumping. Nobody is entitled to prizes, you're supposed to improve your roster over time and earn those better prizes, not abuse a loop hole and go straight to the Stanley cup final without playing the earlier rounds.

Also just a quick question... If you were all hitting 1300 regularly before with 3* rosters...what in the name of odins beard did you spend all that cp on? Surely you should have A solid 4* roster now?

Finally if you don't have at least a couple of champed 4* yes the big prizes will be much harder to obtain.

I wasn't hitting final progression.

I don't expect to hit final progression (which always struck me as more for 4*-5* transitioners anyway).

Before, when there were more points available, if I worked at it and watched my shield hopping, I could get to 1000 and get a 4* cover.

Adding a 4* cover to my mostly 3* roster.

The problem is that by playing the game I lose points instead of gain them after a certain point, and that certain point is just short of getting a 4* cover.

I progressed really well last Season. I have no fully covered 4*s, but I have four usable ones instead of zero.

Aaaaand that's it for now.

PvE with clearance covers back is going to help. That's a 4* plus 25 CP each Story cycle, so my progress hasn't stalled completely.

I will probably be dropping down to CL6 in PvP though. Get 3*s from Placement instead of 2*s.

It's odd how different personal experience is, in the previous system I hit 1k 5 times (4 of which were in the season just gone) in a year of play that was 5 times we can cut that short to 6 months if we only count the time I've understood PvP and played properly.

I've got the 4* in both events so far and did so incredibly easily by climbing both late and early. It's hard to tell as it's only 2 events in But so far I've had easy climbs with less hits and made above my target every time.

In addition to this the new auto defense team feature means I see a greater variety of opponents. Its a shame my experience isn't universal as it's a very positive one.

My experience is the same, except I joined early but climbed the night before the event end. But on the way to 900, I barely got hit. Whereas in the pass, I would be stuggling to hit over 950.

shusheshe

OneLastGambit wrote:

The title says are we supposed to lose but the tone of the OP and nearly every response except a couple say "waaaaa bring back my cupcakes "

If the new system is so unbelievably hard without cupcakes that tells you something about the quality of your roster. Well developed rosters are supposed to get to the best prizes if you have a 3* roster and regularly got to 1300 in old system then you were punching well above your weight and sequence jumping. Nobody is entitled to prizes, you're supposed to improve your roster over time and earn those better prizes, not abuse a loop hole and go straight to the Stanley cup final without playing the earlier rounds.

Also just a quick question... If you were all hitting 1300 regularly before with 3* rosters...what in the name of odins beard did you spend all that cp on? Surely you should have A solid 4* roster now?

Finally if you don't have at least a couple of champed 4* yes the big prizes will be much harder to obtain.

Look at my roster linked below. I finished champing the last of the 3*s and just beginning the 4* transition. When I was in 3* transition I hoarded every cp I could (I had about 700 CP and 15 Legendary tokens at the highest point by playing PVE and making full progression there) until I had the last 4-5 of the 3*'s left to champ, then I started opening CP/LT's to build up the 4* roster I have today.

And no, I wasn't hitting 1300 regularly. Last 2 seasons I only hit 1300 about 2-3 times per season. 3-4 seasons before that I could only hit 800 for the three star cover. My goal during that time AND IT IS STILL THE SAME RIGHT NOW, is to hit 900/1000 for the 4* cover. Just progression to further build that 4* roster. I don't care about ranking and never have. Progression is what allowed me to finish 3* transition and move into 4* land.

That path to 4* progression has now been cut off at the knees (unless I go back to PVE whenever they change it back to clearance levels). Yes, I was one of those using CCs and line coordination to reach 1000+. But I wouldn't have to if I can find viable targets above 700. I spent a 24 hour/8 hour/3 hour shields just to reach 800 in Stick and Stones. This is FAR too much HP to spend just to TRY to reach 900. In the last 8 hours I'd tried to check every half hour skipping through matches trying to find three that is hittable. I only found one. The rest was max champed Thoress, max champed Antman, max champed boosted 4* I don't have a hope of beating unless I whaled them all. And most of them was only worth 35 points.

It's not just HARDER to obtain, it's now near impossible.

nigelregal

shusheshe wrote:

Look at my roster linked below. I finished champing the last of the 3*s and just beginning the 4* transition. When I was in 3* transition I hoarded every cp I could (I had about 700 CP and 15 Legendary tokens at the highest point by playing PVE and making full progression there) until I had the last 4-5 of the 3*'s left to champ, then I started opening CP/LT's to build up the 4* roster I have today.

And no, I wasn't hitting 1300 regularly. Last 2 seasons I only hit 1300 about 2-3 times per season. 3-4 seasons before that I could only hit 800 for the three star cover. My goal during that time AND IT IS STILL THE SAME RIGHT NOW, is to hit 900/1000 for the 4* cover. Just progression to further build that 4* roster. I don't care about ranking and never have. Progression is what allowed me to finish 3* transition and move into 4* land.

That path to 4* progression has now been cut off at the knees (unless I go back to PVE whenever they change it back to clearance levels). Yes, I was one of those using CCs and line coordination to reach 1000+. But I wouldn't have to if I can find viable targets above 700. I spent a 24 hour/8 hour/3 hour shields just to reach 800 in Stick and Stones. This is FAR too much HP to spend just to TRY to reach 900. In the last 8 hours I'd tried to check every half hour skipping through matches trying to find three that is hittable. I only found one. The rest was max champed Thoress, max champed Antman, max champed boosted 4* I don't have a hope of beating unless I whaled them all. And most of them was only worth 35 points.

It's not just HARDER to obtain, it's now near impossible.

The problem is that instead of the points flowing from 5* people down to 4* and 3* it now is mostly concentrated in the 5* land. The only way you ever saw the points from them was if they put out a cupcake because due to MMR you can now see the easier team. When I am climbing and shield hopping all I see are 4* teams and some 5* teams worth very low points. Only teams worth points to me are the 5* bakes. once I hit a certain point I stop seeing the 4* teams worth 4 pts each and see only champion 5* teams that I can only use whales to beat. For me it's just a fact of 5*s taking top spot and getting the 4* prizes that most might not need until they open up more clearance levels that give 5* rewards so that CL7 or even 8 might give someone with a 4* roster a chance of decent placement. Progression is a whole other story but someone with a lot of champion 4*s should be able to get 1200 points using 1-2 shields but it takes coordination in LINE usually.

GurlBYE

Fightmastermpq wrote:

This is false. Anyone with 2 champed 5*s can place as high as others with champed 5*s. There are a few exceptions when you start talking about guys with level 500+ characters, but there are very few of these players. Eventually you will catch up. Just like Thorverine was all you needed to be successful and adding a champed Fury or IW didn't really help much - adding a champed BSS, or IM, or Black Bolt, or whatever the latest 5* is really doesn't make you that much more competitive than a 5* newbie that just champed their OML/Phx (Or BSS/GG for that matter, almost any two 5*s is enough to be successful).

What the you talking about.

I have singularly covered 5 stars.

I am not talking about people in endgame

If you have a CHAMPED 5 star, you are endgame

if you have a team of champed 4's you are approaching end game

neither is aiming for the 4 star cover.

So what are you talking about?

This is the issue with the perspective on these forums.

Fightmastermpq

GurlBYE wrote:

Fightmastermpq wrote:

This is false. Anyone with 2 champed 5*s can place as high as others with champed 5*s. There are a few exceptions when you start talking about guys with level 500+ characters, but there are very few of these players. Eventually you will catch up. Just like Thorverine was all you needed to be successful and adding a champed Fury or IW didn't really help much - adding a champed BSS, or IM, or Black Bolt, or whatever the latest 5* is really doesn't make you that much more competitive than a 5* newbie that just champed their OML/Phx (Or BSS/GG for that matter, almost any two 5*s is enough to be successful).

What the you talking about.

I have singularly covered 5 stars.

I am not talking about people in endgame

If you have a CHAMPED 5 star, you are endgame

if you have a team of champed 4's you are approaching end game

neither is aiming for the 4 star cover.

So what are you talking about?

This is the issue with the perspective on these forums.

I'm talking about where you said:

GurlBYE wrote:

Currently without spending, you will never place higher than someone with a 5 star roster .

In response to:

aesthetocyst wrote:

It is supposed to get harder to climb farther. Are some progressions supposed to be out of the reach of some players? Obviously, yes. They aren't entitlements. They are brass rings to reach, and it's meant to take time.

And my point stands. Eventually, without spending, you WILL place higher than someone with a 5* roster. I'm not sure why you felt I should assume you were talking about 4* players when you specifically mentioned 5* players. Plus you are still wrong because even players with 5* rosters still fight over T1 (and now T5 as well) to earn 4* covers thanks to champ levels. Same for 4* players. They might have a solid JeanBuster, but you can bet your **** they'll be pushing hard when Peggy or Rulk covers pop up in that 900 progression slot.

Both progression AND placement rewards should be tiered toward roster strength because they do mean different things. Progression represents your peak at any point during an event while placement represents how well you can maintain a given level of performance against your peers (and how willing you are to spend HP to hold on to your progress). I won't claim to be the moral authority on who deserves what level of reward, but I tend to agree with aes that rewards are not entitlements, you should have a real sense of achievement when you reach the ones that represent significant progression to your roster.

mikeylu

PVP has always been not noob friendly, all the vets went through it, so must the noobs.. the point of PVE is to build up your roster so you can compete in PVP..in all honesty they have made roster progression much easier now then it was back in the day..

I didnt even participate in PVP until almost a year out..

call it MPQ hazing if you will.