Mission Accomplished! PVP above 900 is awful!

Chipster22

I had already posted this in another thread before seeing the discussion here.

Just to add a piece of anecdotal evidence.

I finished 8th in Fist Bump with a score of 1,213.

Previously my finishes were netting me top 50 or top 100 spots. My event scores were usually from around 1,000 to the low 1,300's. I may have hit 1,500 once.

8th is obviously much better than before the changes, but perhaps I just was fortunate to get an easy bracket this time.

For reference, I have 19 champed 4 stars, which included 4Thor, Antman, and X-23 boosted during the event. My top 5 stars are OML at 390, Phoenix at 316, and Silver Surfer at 293.

Edit: I think I was hitting the top 25 sometimes previously as well.

mpqr7

I am curious about if we could somehow make a matrix of how awful it is for people vs what SL they are

Last night, I made it to 900+ and then ran out of time. On weekdays, I'm generally a two shield max person, so I'll see if I'm able to get there or not. At least you will get some of the cp beforehand now, thanks to SCL!

Magic

I had the best PvP placing in months in the IF event. I was running champed And-Man and SWitch and got just over 900 points. That got me top 10 finish..... in SL6. I did not try SL7 as the progression 4* would be sold for ISO so I went for the extra IF cover. Smart move. I will most likely repeat the process with Cage as I don't need the 4* as well.

So far - the change is for the better. I was not really attacked so my climb to 900 was easier that to 1k in previous events. Let's see if this is a trend that continues (might be result of me having champed Ant-Man who can be a beast when boosted).

Also starting from Luke we will have 10 CP as a reasonable progression goal - that should help me bridge the gap as I was not able to get the 25 CP from 1,3k and I don't expect to be able to get to 1,2k as well. Yet I will now have 40% more CP per week. With the CL levels in PvE I say it's huge thumbs up for the devs already and the CL8-9-10 could be even better!

Meander

It was a much tougher slog for me than normal, but still doable. It took nearly double the HP in Shields that I would normally spend, but I was probably being overly cautious. I did certainly get better placement, but could care less. I'll gladly give back the 2 extra 3* covers I got for an easier climb.

JVReal

Average of my 3 highest (not counting boosts) 276. CL7, climbed the last 2 hours of S4.

60+ were pretty scarce. Probably hit only about 4 of them. The rest were 38-51 points up until about the time I crossed 1K.

Normally I would hit 800, then experience a flood of tiny points matches and spinning my wheels. This time it didn't happen until 1K. I got hit for the first time as I was trying to cross 1100. stalled out at 1080 where I was spinning my wheels and after a couple more 25 point fights, I was pushed back down into 900+ range.

When I passed 1K, I felt hopeful, but unsure. I hadn't been hit yet, so I didn't know what team was showing as my defensive team... I used 4Thor/Patch first, then climbed with 4Thor/IM40. Not a big difference, but I have no idea what defensive team was showing up. I was facing a lot of 4Thor/IM40 teams so I knew if it was that team, it didn't scare off too many people. After 1k I was literally queuing the same 5 people, and when 2 of them are on the other 2 nodes, that leaves 3 people cycling for that last spot. 3 fights in queue to try and scrape together 75 points (if the points were actually that value) but after a fight and gaining 23, I lost 67. Next fight gaining 27, losing 70+, but still no notification of who hit me for how much.

I did not see anything that resembled the "losing less points" from being defeated. -60+, -40+, -40+, etc. And the retals didn't show up until I shielded, I just kept watching my score drop and no red nodes appear for me to try and get my points back. I finally figured I should stop bleeding points and shield. Then a couple minutes after I shield I got my notifications. My retals were worth 12 points or so. I did gain a couple instances of 6 points from defensive wins... yay?

When it was all said and done, I shielded around 990 until the end of the event. A couple minutes later my retals came back, but it was too late anyway, I wasn't going to unshield to hit a retal at this point, especially since they were all under 20 points and were obviously people way down the food chain climbing. I got enough defensive wins to push me just above 1K again, and I walked away #5 in my bracket.

It may have been that 4Thor was boosted, but it was one of only 4 times so far that I broke past 1K. It seemed pretty easy to do with no shield while late climbing. When they break up the CP to different progression values I will finally get some CP from PVP, so I'm glad about that. We'll see how this season goes. If I'm hitting 900+ and breaking 1K each PVP like I did this one, and the rewards stay like they show for CL7 in Luke Cage PVP, I'll be content with the changes. Maybe if they fix the defensive loss points, I'll be able to climb higher. Someone above stated that they heard the change to loss points didn't get applied to this IF PVP... don't know where that came from but if it's true, its good to hear, and we'll see when I climb in Cage's PVP.

I seldom saw Cupcakes before, so the presence of them didn't directly benefit me, but I could definitely see lower point targets this PVP. I had to work harder for fewer points, got higher than I normally did (mostly due to the boosted characters) and placed better than before. Feels like mostly good results, but still not happy about the number of points lost from defensive losses and not knowing what team is out there.

PorkBelly

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

Fightmastermpq

PorkBelly wrote:

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

What kinds of teams were hitting you? Similar teams? Mostly better 5* teams? Lower 4* teams? Were you getting hit several times from higher scores, or was it typically just one hit from someone very far below you?

PorkBelly

Fightmastermpq wrote:

PorkBelly wrote:

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

What kinds of teams were hitting you? Similar teams? Mostly better 5* teams? Lower 4* teams? Were you getting hit several times from higher scores, or was it typically just one hit from someone very far below you?

Most teams that were hitting me had at least 1 maxed 5* and were significantly below my score (me at 10xx and attacker at around 800).

Typical team that hit me for 60-70 points consisted of either 450 oml or Phoenix + champed 4hor.

There was an occasional IM40 + 4hor but they were far less frequent.

Quebbster

PorkBelly wrote:

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

Does the 10CP at 575 Points in Sticks and Stones Count as a significant revision?

PorkBelly

Quebbster wrote:

PorkBelly wrote:

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

Does the 10CP at 575 Points in Sticks and Stones Count as a significant revision?

Cutting my ability to progress by 60% relative to the previous meta seems like a step back to me.

I only need 5* (with very few new character exceptions). I might get one 5* cover per month, if I'm extremely lucky, under the old system.

If you cut that in half, people in my mmr (day 1007, btw) are going to have maxed 6*s before I even finish my 1st 5*.

Meander

Quebbster wrote:

PorkBelly wrote:

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

Does the 10CP at 575 Points in Sticks and Stones Count as a significant revision?

I understand that some view the 10 cp at 575 as an out for these transitioners, but you realize in essence you're saying "Hey, I get that 1200 is a huge slog now that may be unobtainable at your level, but if you receive 60% less CP per event than you're used to, does that shut you up?" No, it shouldn't be good enough to quiet them, IMO.

I have an alliance mate that has put tons of time and some money to get up to a competitive level quickly, but he's completely left out in the cold, like many posters seem to be. I can't help but feel for them, because I know I had some assistance getting to my level, and now they can't get the same.

The counter point is that they were playing 'above their level' and are now brought back down to earth. They can still progress some, but remember, while they make 10 CP, the people beating them down are still making the 25. Meaning that they're still left further and further behind. Yes, the system may have been skewed to line collaboration previously, but now it seems to be purely survival of the fattest wallet. I'm lucky to have a powerful 4* base transitioning to 5*s, because if I didn't, I would probably have quit over this too.

Quebbster

PorkBelly wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

PorkBelly wrote:

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

Does the 10CP at 575 Points in Sticks and Stones Count as a significant revision?

Cutting my ability to progress by 60% relative to the previous meta seems like a step back to me.

I only need 5* (with very few new character exceptions). I might get one 5* cover per month, if I'm extremely lucky, under the old system.

If you cut that in half, people in my mmr (day 1007, btw) are going to have maxed 6*s before I even finish my 1st 5*.

Well, the work required to get that CP is also significantly less. It's not much, but the CP is not an "all or nothing" deal any more. That is quite nice.

Quebbster

Meander wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

PorkBelly wrote:

345 OML + several champed 4*s.

I always made 1300 in previous PvPs.

I don't use Line.

I was in S4.

This PvP was a nightmare. After 950 points, I could only make single match hops. Most of those were only worth 30-40 points. I was sniped during a single match several times due to the length of the matches.

When I lost points, there was no noticeable difference. It was still easy to lose 60-70 points while trying to gain 30.

I spent 1125hp on shields to reach 1200.

I pretty much only need 5* covers to progress. Without access to the final CP progression, it is a waste of my time and resources to play.

Unless there are significant revisions to how PvP functions relative to Fist Bump, I'm probably done with MPQ.

Does the 10CP at 575 Points in Sticks and Stones Count as a significant revision?

I understand that some view the 10 cp at 575 as an out for these transitioners, but you realize in essence you're saying "Hey, I get that 1200 is a huge slog now that may be unobtainable at your level, but if you receive 60% less CP per event than you're used to, does that shut you up?" No, it shouldn't be good enough to quiet them, IMO.

I have an alliance mate that has put tons of time and some money to get up to a competitive level quickly, but he's completely left out in the cold, like many posters seem to be. I can't help but feel for them, because I know I had some assistance getting to my level, and now they can't get the same.

The counter point is that they were playing 'above their level' and are now brought back down to earth and can still progress some, but remember, while they make 10, the people beating them down are still making the 25. Meaning that they're still left further and further behind. Yes, the system may have been skewed to line collaboration previously, but now it seems to be purely survival of the fattest wallet. I'm lucky to have a powerful 4* base transitioning to 5*s, because if I didn't, I would probably have quit over this too.

I'm not trying to shut anyone up, I am just making sure they haven't missed a good change to the rewards list that snuck in unannounced. Sorry if it came across the wrong way.

AE_Fios

The changes are great. Big bank is back to eating little bank, the way it should be. Not coordinating how to score 4000 points on LINE.

Cupcakes are never coming back, obviously. I don't know why you're all getting worked up over it. They aren't going to put an exploit back into the game after fixing it. They should have removed cupcaking immediately rather than letting it go for a year, that's D3s fault.

So rather than whine about it, why not make suggestions on how to improve upon the new system? For instance, 1100 for 15 CP would be much more manageable. 1200 is tough. Costs a lot in HP. 1100 would allow most to get there in 2 hops.

Quebbster

AE_Fios wrote:

Cupcakes are never coming back, obviously. I don't know why you're all getting worked up over it. They aren't going to put an exploit back into the game after fixing it.

Nah, players are just going to come up with new exploits they need to fix next year.

AE_Fios wrote:

They should have removed cupcaking immediately rather than letting it go for a year, that's D3s fault.

They tend to turn a blind Eye to things that only affect a small portion of the player base, like when Sentrybombing "wasn't a problem". Guess it took this long for the issue to be widespread enough that they couldn't ignore it any more...

AE_Fios wrote:

So rather than whine about it, why not make suggestions on how to improve upon the new system? For instance, 1100 for 15 CP would be much more manageable. 1200 is tough. Costs a lot in HP. 1100 would allow most to get there in 2 hops.

Aaaand that's why it's unlikely to change any time soon. All that sweet HP feeds the hamsters, after all.

TetsujinOni

Well, for those of us who are stuck in this transition, SCL 7 with the VS Mode changes is NOT equitable comparison to before.

We need details about SCL8 and SCL9, and we need them soon. ETAs for their arrival, some stabilization in the completely random manner in which information is propagated, and some honesty in what they EXPECT play to be like.

They announced a change to all point losses at the same time as the changes to defense teams. They did not deliver on that and it made negative hops on this climb VERY common for me . I can play the match-3 game competently (*fistshake* cascades, though....)

MMR: 281 (315 OML, 271 Peggy, all-but-Natty at 255), climb team was boosted IF + Peggy + IM40@201 (better than IM40 + 4/2/4 4Thor at 209 with boosts vs champed 4thor).

My queues were almost pure 360+ 4Thor + IM40 in the 180s plus champed IF. A "pleasant change" was a less-covered 330 OML showing up in the queue....

S4

Ended 46th on my bracket, with 808 points after negative hopping by 140 while winning 3 matches.

TheXMan

I never understood why there is such a large gap between the last two rewards in PVP. It was nice that they dropped it to 1200 but why do we have to have a 300 point gap still? Would making top progression 1000 under the no cupcake system be too easy?

Polares

TetsujinOni wrote:

We need details about SCL8 and SCL9, and we need them soon. ETAs for their arrival, some stabilization in the completely random manner in which information is propagated, and some honesty in what they EXPECT play to be like.

I think we need this ASAP, like for yesterday. And MMR need to change. I think everybody in the same SCL should be visible, but of course this can only be implemented once we have all SCLs working, too many people with different rosters in SCL7 now.

I think Devs have a bad idea when they decided to just open SCL7 and down AND and even worse idea when they decided to put so many people with very different rosters in R65.

Ctenko

GurlBYE wrote:

shusheshe wrote:

]If the PVP experience is awful for those with champed 4* rosters, it's even worse than for those in the rung below.

For a just finished 3*and only starting to move into 4* roster like mine, PVP above mid 500 points was completely awful. I started seeing mostly max champed 4* rosters while being hit by those same rosters that I can't retaliate against. I managed to make it to 880 and while looking for the last 30 points to make it past 900, I got hit back to 780. This was after using 2 shields already. I shielded up again to the end and called it a day.

Yes, 3 shields weren't enough to make it past 900.

If the Luke Cage PVP is like this, I'm just going to go back PVE. Or maybe just quit the game entirely.

Um hey, maybe you meant champed 3's, if so I feel you, if not no.

pvp isn't a viable option for people below a champed 3 roster and if it is below that, they are barely making it to 300 unscathed.

3 star pvp is a joke of how far you can get before you bump into champed 4 stars and wonder why you are seeing them before you even hit the 3 star target reward.

I'll echo your comments. I've been stuck at a champed three star roster for... Oh since Vision came out? Honestly when they stopped doing three stars, I had everyone at thirteen covers already except Vision and Bullseye. I was terrified to add more levels to people not a core crew because then my scaling went up like insanity. Even when five stars showed up, I wasn't keeping most of them. (Foolish boy.)

Champion levels and such however made me push about 6-7 into lvl200. Now 4 of them are championed. Having Four relevant champion fourstars means I can get to... maybe 700 or so. Cage and IF. Both people I have really good champions of. IF was level 316 I think? But before. With level 200 four stars. PVP was something I couldn't make 300 points in. With just championed three stars, after clearing the seed teams. My next targets. even spending close to 1000 were all teams I could not dream of touching. Wasn't just level 300 fourstars. It was a couple level 400 OML's and Phoenixes and BSS'.

But I will say something positive for the new PVP so far. I don't have to spend 500 skipping just to get to people who aren't on The Olympus roster.

nigelregal

Right now i'm at 950 points in sticks and stones. A bunch of people are well over 1200 pts but have championed 5* so I can't even see them when I skip through. Right now all I can see are 3* teams or 4* teams worth 4 to 6 points. I would rather have a rough battle for 40+ points than to grind 5 points and then get hit for 50+ by someone with championed 5*s

I can bake a cupcake of **** 3*s and everyone can see it even the champion 5* people so why can't I see there big bad teams to have a shot at getting more points. When the Champ 5* rosters bake its a pretty rough battle for me which I lose 25% of the time it seems vs champ 4* battles maybe a <5% loss rate.

If you get into a MMR breakdown you should be able to see people who are higher MMR than you vs only lower because that is who usually has the points.

Top team is 390 OML, 341 Cage, 367 SheThor