Better without Kiora

jimilinho_

Everyone knows Kiora is completely OP, one monster cascade and your getting drained for 6 everyturn. It's depressingly oppressive at times

I'm finding not having to play against her constantly a breath of fresh air. Don't know what everyone else's views are on this?

Surely now tho everyone's had their fun with her and maybe we can tone her down a bit. Try and create somekind of balance with every other Planeswalker in the game.

alextfish

I actually suspect that was the entire reason they devised the 3-colour-only event Terror in the Shadows: so that they could frequently restrict it to planeswalkers and subtly ban Kiora to give people a break from her.

Basically, they've realised the green and blue mythics are OP, especially combined with each other, but they don't want to nerf them too much, so their current approach seems to be just find ways to let people avoid playing against Kiora.

Killyah

Basically, they've realised the green and blue mythics are OP, especially combined with each other, but they don't want to nerf them too much, so their current approach seems to be just find ways to let people avoid playing against Kiora

...while they introduce some more OP red, black and white mythics to balance things out a little. It doesn't hurt that they can charge for these new mythics as special offer deals too

andrewvanmarle

Though i understand the feeling, i don't'fear playing against kiora she can get overrun rather quickly with a good deck. Yes it has happened with bad draws and bad cascades that she has been able to lock me down, but that has happened with any other PW. think of a hixus somewhere in a corner and me without support removal etc.

Pure balance will never exist, there willalway be a better card or better PW than another. Since this game is essentially a souped up PVE game, that shouldn't'matter too much, just aslong as there are possible answers to the threats on the table.

Steeme

I agree that Kiora can be utterly annoying when she keeps draining mana, especially when she's combined with an equally annoying assortment of cards controlled by an equally annoying AI. (As a side note does the AI actually use anything other than the first ability on Kiora?)

I don't think she should be singled out though.

Have you played against Nahiri? The AI can plop down three chump troops in one turn, then progressively spam the first ability to beef them up to giants (also with lucky cascades). This is terrible in an enraged event.

What about Liliana? I've had the AI, starting on turn 3, keep successively throwing out my cards every turn or so. It doesn't win the game, but it's annoying as heck and just wastes time.

Ob Nix? The AI will spam to draw cards ad infinitum, and keep throwing removal spells out like a gatling gun. Doesn't win the game either but again a time waster.

How about Koth? This guy can dump his entire deck on the field each turn. Considering he's red, that likely means your board gets wiped repeatedly through mass damage.

Then there's those Jace or Tezzeret decks where they have only griefing supports and not a single win condition in the deck. Those matches get drawn out into a major yawn fest.

I used to hate matching up against Kiora. But over time, I have learned to cringe when matched up against many of the others as well.

blacklotus

I just lost a match to Liliana. I was Nahiri. she got one great cascade, cast 1 infinite obliteration, 2 grips on my 2 werewolves, one BtB, 4 under the floorboards, and then proceed to discard my cards for the next 2 turns. I ran out of cards to play.

Monk

When luck wins vs strategy, it's very frustrating ^^

shteev

Killyah wrote:

Basically, they've realised the green and blue mythics are OP, especially combined with each other, but they don't want to nerf them too much, so their current approach seems to be just find ways to let people avoid playing against Kiora

...while they introduce some more OP red, black and white mythics to balance things out a little. It doesn't hurt that they can charge for these new mythics as special offer deals too

...I think they already have, haven't they? Olivia, BtB, and Harness the Storm especially are making competition in Platinum Tier still very stiff even without Kiora.

speakupaskanswer

Sure, Kiora is one of the more difficult PWs, but I wouldn't consider her OP. You can have bad games against almost any PW, I think. The only PWs where I'm not worried at all are Jace and sometimes Ob Nixilis. And I actually dislike playing against Liliana more as I find the discard more annoying.

And the AI always uses the first ability for all PWs unless some cascade gives them access to another one. When the loyalty is there, they take it, no matter what.

shteev

jimilinho_ wrote:

Surely now tho everyone's had their fun with her and maybe we can tone her down a bit. Try and create somekind of balance with every other Planeswalker in the game.

Hear, hear. You can have some reputation when the forum isn't broken.

Upstartes

I get much more worried when playing Koth than I do when playing against Kiora. And when I see Behold the Beyond come out of the AI's hand, regardless of the PW, it makes me cringe in fear.

So, I feel like it is no longer "just Kiora". There are lots of OP decks to face now. Which is... a good thing?

octal9

I'm always of the mind that if something is in a good spot, if others are too low or too high above that, they need to be brought to that level. Previously, Kiora was the only PW that I'd say "oh boy, here we go again..." when I saw her and at the time, could have been taken down a notch or too.

But now? Now I'm having this reaction upon seeing other PWs as well. Nahiri, Nissa (U. Hydra, SP), Koth... even Sarkhan now (Harness/Inf Ob/BtB is just so good).

I think Kiora's in a fine spot.

jackvett

So both green and red have ramp. Green through Ramp Matters and red through Cascades matter.

Considering the green cards are almost entirely combo-reliant (season's past), and the red cards are pretty much aggressively statted bodies with cascade effects tacked on (volcanic rumbler, abbott of keral keep, or just Harness the Storm)...I am fine with Kiora having abilities that slow Red down/eventually give it a 32/32 wall.

Considering the planeswalker is 100x as expensive as the others, if she gets changed I would imagine lots of outcry on the forums if no compensation was given. She ate my crystals for 2-3 weeks to buy her, and eats about 3/4 my runes each week. Taking away that investment, or the payout for it, would suck.

shteev

jackvett wrote:

Considering the planeswalker is 100x as expensive as the others, if she gets changed I would imagine lots of outcry on the forums if no compensation was given. She ate my crystals for 2-3 weeks to buy her, and eats about 3/4 my runes each week. Taking away that investment, or the payout for it, would suck.

Is that all we're here for tho? Just to pay to win?

Theros

As of right now, Koth is the most powerful PW. Koth + Goldnight Castigator is the most powerful combo in the game. Ohter PWs generate more mana than kiora. Sharkan kills fast given has 2 dragons at least. the newer PW have some nice kill combination.
Dont be annoyed by SP and hydra because they'll get tuned down.
Red, White and Black have been getting some powerful cards lately.
I'm personally more worried about Koth than any PW

chispito

Koth is so much worse, I'm curious why you have a harder time vs Kiora. Or, you know, anything with Hixus Prison Warden in it.

shteev

MADAFAKA wrote:

Sharkan kills fast given has 2 dragons at least. the newer PW have some nice kill combination.

Sarkhan doesn't need dragons. All he needs to do is spend his loyalty drawing more and more of his crazy powerful red and black cards.

jackvett

shteev wrote:

Is that all we're here for tho? Just to pay to win?

Players have certainly demonstrated they're fine with this model, picking up Olivia for the $30 before she's offered as a drop in the game.

Developers obviously like that scheme as they make more money than being friendly with us through favorable drop rates/systems.

I fall somewhere in the middle, personally. I like expensive, powerful cards/PW's that can be reliably obtained by everybody.

If every exclusive mythic had an alternate purchase price in rocks I doubt we'd be whining about much short of the infinite loop combos. Even if they gated the availability in this "shop" it would be infinitely better than players having no say in the cards they get to play the game with.

glggwp

i just pulled hydra and seasons past. its going to be fun...

rob443

enjoy it while it lasts. watching the animations again and again will become boring to you soon

JMussels

Is it possible that the whole "Kiora is OP" narrative (Ok, maybe not the whole narrative, but at least a liiiittle bit of it?) is being driven by her being the easiest walker to play against RC with all those reachy tentacles?