Olivia, BAAAROKEN

13

Comments

  • Avacyn
    Avacyn Posts: 89 Match Maker
    majincob wrote:
    Avacyn wrote:
    u guys act like removal/bounce spells don't exist in this game. calling nerfs to drowner of hope. ulvenwald hydra, gea's revenge and now olivia? she hasn't been out for more than a day and u guys are already demanding for adjustments. removals are your friends. use them.

    Example:
    Sage cost 10 mana for a 2/2 when she comes on board but can quickly get bumped to some crazy numbers. with one removal and she gone. along with all the investment in her(set up with various spell). one spell countering numerous spells...if anything I think removals are OP lol

    removals are available to everyone. and their cheaper than her huge 20mana cost. I run multiple removals spell in my competitive decks and I top rank often in QBs. it because I have answer to nasty creatures like Olivia. none of these so call OP creature have ever given me problems that I can't deal with.

    wait until we get Emrakul, the promised end... I bit people well be writing ultimatums...if he does come out with eldritch moon.

    Yes, the removal has been getting better in the game which allows for more powerful creatures as more people in general have access to those answers. However the game shouldn't be: "Do you have a removal spell in your opening hand? No? Well you lose." Of course that is a little bit further out in the extreme, but with cascades that can already happen somewhat infrequently.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the card and plan to use (abuse) it as long as I can, but putting out a card like this almost forces people to pay to be on top competitively within the window in which it will not be available in packs. Fortunately we will probably get EM set soon which will add Olivia into the pull-able cards in packs opening it up for everyone to have a chance at her with crystals. Even if it is a tiny, tiny chance I'm sure more people will get her that way.

    I started playing paper magic since I was a kid. so when powerful cards come in to play I know my chance to win well drop significantly. I simply acknowledge my lost and play another. if you ever spend any time playing in tournaments or watch it; you'll see when a mythic comes in to play it usually a game defining moment. it intended. mythic are meant to be powerful...but still can be dealt with.

    I do find the method of obtaining her to be despicable. I feel they should give access to the card to everyone in boosters and buying her is an (overpriced) option.
  • paralistalon
    paralistalon Posts: 153
    This is where paper Magic and Puzzle Quest Magic completely differ in their design/development philosophies. In PQ Magic, they have openly said that there is a formula they use to set the cost for cards based largely on rarity. For example, the higher the rarity of a card, the stronger it is supposed to be for its cost.

    In paper Magic, however, they try not to print cards at rare that are "strictly better" than the same cards at common. They try to reserve the rare and mythic rarities for cards that are overly complicated, too narrow or specific, and yes, they do print a few of the more powerful cards at rare that they don't want to show up too often in sealed deck and booster draft formats. Planeswalkers are pretty much always printed at mythic regardless of how good they are (but they are almost always amazing due to their inherent card advantage and ability to convert turns into an ultimate ability).

    In paper Magic, deck synergy will always trump number of mythics. You almost never see decks that are 4 copies of every mythic in that color. Even commons are crucial to most deck strategies.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    paralistalon wrote:
    This is where paper Magic and Puzzle Quest Magic completely differ in their design/development philosophies. In PQ Magic, they have openly said that there is a formula they use to set the cost for cards based largely on rarity. For example, the higher the rarity of a card, the stronger it is supposed to be for its cost.

    In paper Magic, however, they try not to print cards at rare that are "strictly better" than the same cards at common. They try to reserve the rare and mythic rarities for cards that are overly complicated, too narrow or specific, and yes, they do print a few of the more powerful cards at rare that they don't want to show up too often in sealed deck and booster draft formats. Planeswalkers are pretty much always printed at mythic regardless of how good they are (but they are almost always amazing due to their inherent card advantage and ability to convert turns into an ultimate ability).

    In paper Magic, deck synergy will always trump number of mythics. You almost never see decks that are 4 copies of every mythic in that color. Even commons are crucial to most deck strategies.


    The problem is certainly much more pronounced in MPQ than paper MTG. The disparity in power levels of uncommon cards like Foundry of the Consuls and mythics like Thopter Spy Network is ludicrous ('it draws cards too? **** off!')

    However, it must be said that as time goes on, paper MTG continues to pay lip service to the idea of of not making rares and mythics overpowering, while adhering to the practice less and less.
  • Serakiel
    Serakiel Posts: 37 Just Dropped In
    I freaking love this card. No nerf needed!!!
  • moogus
    moogus Posts: 24
    Have to agree with OP. It's fun face-rolling with it, but SOI has utterly broken the game with OP combos.

    Koth: http://imgur.com/pvg2o4R

    Sarkhan: http://imgur.com/CkXAfD8
  • Netatron
    Netatron Posts: 147
    It does seem a bit extreme that Saheeli with a madness card in hand and thopter spy network out can drop at least 32/32 of lifelink haste thopters every turn if she has the loyalty and you don't have removal for Olivia ready the turn she's played.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,253 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah, I keep having a sneaking suspicion that they had Arlinn Kord ready to go and realized that if we thought Koth was fast at dropping mythic bombs, green-red would be even faster.
  • Avacyn
    Avacyn Posts: 89 Match Maker
    anything associate with green is going to be crazy.

    Kiora can have a board filled with 30 plus power/toughness creatures in a turn with all the landfall types and spells that triggers it. Even Nissa.
  • Netatron
    Netatron Posts: 147
    Avacyn wrote:
    anything associate with green is going to be crazy.

    Kiora can have a board filled with 30 plus power/toughness creatures in a turn with all the landfall types and spells that triggers it. Even Nissa.

    All this could be solved by giving the same treatment to other green ramp they realized was necessary for Animist's Awakening for the exact same reasons. Something like 12 cost Nissa's Renewal for 12 gems and 18 life is still above average power for a mythic in my opinion.
  • Bazingaconnor
    Bazingaconnor Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    I do not believe Olivia's effect is broken. I believe madness is broken. Olivia's effect requires a fair trade in, but madness changes this into a ridiculous, usually free, effect. Especially with tokens. I don't have Saheeli (placed 6 in a silver tier bracket,) but I do have Devil's Playground, and getting a 4 mana 16/16 flying, haste, lifelinker with one card and a madness card in hand is hilarious, but it feels extremely wrong to me. I would be glad to have to discard multiple cards for tokens, as it makes them less efficient, as you are giving up other options including removal, for a relatively minor buff.

    As for fixing madness, there are a couple good options already posted. They could make it so they are not counted when they are tried to be discarded (similar to how when you try and use a spell that doesn't apply it just stays in your hand instead of doing anything.) They could make it so they are able to be discarded, and then you can choose to play it using mana from your remaining cards for a reduced cost, similar to paper magic.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Remind me why you can't discard madness cards again? Why was that design decision taken?
  • Bazingaconnor
    Bazingaconnor Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    I have no idea why madness was designed how it was. I only recently started playing again, as i got a new phone that can actually handle the game.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    shteev wrote:
    Remind me why you can't discard madness cards again? Why was that design decision taken?

    All I can think of is that the decision was made to prevent new players to the game from becoming a little frustrated with it before they've learned how to use the interface. That decision, however, is wreaking havok on high level play.
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    The point of madness cards in paper was to be able to play a card no matter what. Nothing could take away the option to cast it. So that's why it can't be forced to discard in PQ.
  • Bazingaconnor
    Bazingaconnor Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    Plastic wrote:
    The point of madness cards in paper was to be able to play a card no matter what. Nothing could take away the option to cast it. So that's why it can't be forced to discard in PQ.

    I do not agree with that assessment. You can miss an opportunity to cast madness cards in paper magic, as you have to immediately play them once discarded. The point of madness is that it turns a downside (discarding) into potential upside (usually cheaper, instant speed card.)
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    Bazingaconnor wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    The point of madness cards in paper was to be able to play a card no matter what. Nothing could take away the option to cast it. So that's why it can't be forced to discard in PQ.

    I do not agree with that assessment. You can miss an opportunity to cast madness cards in paper magic, as you have to immediately play them once discarded. The point of madness is that it turns a downside (discarding) into potential upside (usually cheaper, instant speed card.)


    I didn't say madness cards in paper will always be played. They will always have an opportunity to be played. Able to play vs will be played. I guess I wasn't clear with my wording?
  • Bazingaconnor
    Bazingaconnor Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    Plastic wrote:
    Bazingaconnor wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    The point of madness cards in paper was to be able to play a card no matter what. Nothing could take away the option to cast it. So that's why it can't be forced to discard in PQ.

    I do not agree with that assessment. You can miss an opportunity to cast madness cards in paper magic, as you have to immediately play them once discarded. The point of madness is that it turns a downside (discarding) into potential upside (usually cheaper, instant speed card.)


    I didn't say madness cards in paper will always be played. They will always have an opportunity to be played. Able to play vs will be played. I guess I wasn't clear with my wording?

    It was the "no matter what" that made it seem to me like you meant that even if it were discarded, that you would be able to play it later. Sorry if I sounded rude.
  • Pqmtg-
    Pqmtg- Posts: 282
    Bazingaconnor wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    The point of madness cards in paper was to be able to play a card no matter what. Nothing could take away the option to cast it. So that's why it can't be forced to discard in PQ.

    I do not agree with that assessment. You can miss an opportunity to cast madness cards in paper magic, as you have to immediately play them once discarded. The point of madness is that it turns a downside (discarding) into potential upside (usually cheaper, instant speed card.)


    I wasn't around for this mechanic. Does that mean creatures with madness could be cast like flash when discarded?
  • Bazingaconnor
    Bazingaconnor Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
    Pqmtg- wrote:
    Bazingaconnor wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    The point of madness cards in paper was to be able to play a card no matter what. Nothing could take away the option to cast it. So that's why it can't be forced to discard in PQ.

    I do not agree with that assessment. You can miss an opportunity to cast madness cards in paper magic, as you have to immediately play them once discarded. The point of madness is that it turns a downside (discarding) into potential upside (usually cheaper, instant speed card.)


    I wasn't around for this mechanic. Does that mean creatures with madness could be cast like flash when discarded?

    Yes. When you discard a card with madness you discard it into exile, then you have the opportunity to immediately cast it for its madness cost, otherwise you put it in your graveyard.
  • Avacyn
    Avacyn Posts: 89 Match Maker
    I really enjoy playing RB madness vampires in paper . I can flash in a vampire to surprise block a weaker creature and have it cost reduced. something like lightning axe into bloodhall priest on opponents attack phase

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