Olivia, BAAAROKEN

Morphis

Barrelrolla wrote:

By the way, who came with the idea that madness cards cannot be discarded?
"It's so you don't discard it by mistake". If I use an ability that makes the opponent discard his first card, he should discard his first card. Period.
Unless I can see that the card has Madness, but I don't, do I.
If that rule was in paper I'd be telling my opponent all my cards have madness. Unless it's face up on the battlefield it is just a card.

To be honest I like the idea of expanding the game mechanics outside the paper version taking advantage of the fact this is a digital game.
That as a point in itself.
Madness is not an example of a good way to do it.

I am still convinced that madness being immune to discard is a "band-aid fix" to make it work cause of technical problems in the game engine generating problems of madness were to be discarded.
Because it does not make much sense...

If it's meant to "nerf" discards, the best option would have been to increase mana cost/Liliana skill cost instead.

If it's meant to avoid discarding on accident, I find it much more likely for madness card to lead to other cards being discarded on accident cause madness are jumped over in discard order.

Still to this day can't find a valid gameplay reason for madness cards to be immune to discard.

For what concerns Olivia, I knew from the very beginning it would have been op.

murtagon

Morphis wrote:

Still to this day can't find a valid gameplay reason for madness cards to be immune to discard.

Its simple...Its madness man madness

madwren

DragonXNIK- wrote:

If this works the way you guys are describing, this is a slam dunk for saheeli rai. Play olivia, then use her whirlerworks ability. You get a 16/16 flying haste lifelink (and discard your hand) if she lives to your next turn or you 5 matched to get her out.

According to my coalition mates this only really works if you have any madness cards in hand. Since madness cards can't be discarded, they still count as discard for Olivia's ability to trigger even with no other cards in hand.

This is correct. However, I'd posit that the benefit is worth a few cards in hand, especially if you're backing up Olivia with sources of hand replenishment, of which blue has many.

Konman

For those of us without encyclopedic knowledge of the game...Olivia?

Talain1

murtagon wrote:

Morphis wrote:

Still to this day can't find a valid gameplay reason for madness cards to be immune to discard.

Its simple...Its madness man madness

Well in paper magic when you discard a card with madness you get to play it for its (usually cheaper) madness cost. Here cards with madness get cheaper when you discard something else.

I suppose one way they could have done it (that would be closer to how the original game does it) is if you would discard a card with madness you can play it instead by paying its madness cost (i.e., have that amount of mana drained from the cards in your hand if there is enough).

murtagon

Konman wrote:

For those of us without encyclopedic knowledge of the game...Olivia?

The new for purchase mythic in the vault, released today.

shteev

murtagon wrote:

Morphis wrote:

Still to this day can't find a valid gameplay reason for madness cards to be immune to discard.

Its simple...Its madness man madness

HomeRn

Had my eyes on this card since day one, like a lot of us... never thought that it would be... this powerful.

I will say that this card needs some nerfing - no lie. Mana cost is fine, 20 mana is a massive investment (unless your name is Liliana...) for one creature - at least Olivia comes in with a stat line worth the 20 mana!

As mentioned beforehand by others, why does Olivia trigger on token drops? Didn't we have this problem with a few supports synergizing a little too well back in December/January? Olivia really should only trigger on non-token creatures being played - preferably from players' hands ONLY...

Tilikum

I can see them fixing the card to not trigger on token creatures but that's about it.
I like that there's a really powerful card open to everyone for $30.
Besides, if they just sold something to the public and then drastically change it, they would come off as complete crooks.
If you think it's good, buy it. Brilliant marketing IMO.

andrewvanmarle

Lets not jump the gun and shout nerf just yet, see how this plays out first....

The only thing thst needs a change is the madness discard bug, olivia shouldnt trigger when you only have a madness card in hand

Steeme

I agree that the only mechanic that's broken is madness right now. "Discard" should not trigger on madness cards because you don't actually discard them.

tm00

I could see them nerfing her by removing the discard madness cards at infinitum quirk, maybe making the ability optional to give her a bit of power back, as it is releasing something that can make 12-13 tokens down the road could break her.

andrewvanmarle

Steeme wrote:

I agree that the only mechanic that's broken is madness right now. "Discard" should not trigger on madness cards because you don't actually discard them.

this!

other than that...nothing to see here, people, move along, move along....

Barrelrolla

andrewvanmarle wrote:

The only thing that needs a change is the madness discard bug, olivia shouldnt trigger when you only have a madness card in hand

They should probably buff her. I mean, if you don't discard it's just an 8/8. They should remove the discard condition. And probably give her menace, creatures with reach can stop her which is lame.

Pqmtg-

Barrelrolla wrote:

andrewvanmarle wrote:

The only thing that needs a change is the madness discard bug, olivia shouldnt trigger when you only have a madness card in hand

They should probably buff her. I mean, if you don't discard it's just an 8/8. They should remove the discard condition. And probably give her menace, creatures with reach can stop her which is lame.

I think they forgot to give her hexproof too. It's too expensive to be countered by a 2 mana Titan's presence.

paralistalon

As I think I said in a previous thread about drop rates, you have to speak with your wallets. They've done a smart thing by releasing an absurdly powerful mythic for $30. Tons of people are paying $30 (let that sink in for a minute) just to put their Saheli decks over the top. The last thing a developer is going to do is interrupt the cash flow by making any public comments about how they might nerf the card. The smart choice is to sit back in silence all week, then if and only if players start to complain about Olivia, they can nerf it and say that they didn't want to but too many players were complaining about it. Here's 100 free mana crystals for the inconvenience (which can't be spent on these exclusive rares or mythics). They understand that you can't just give the players what they want. Sure, we all want easier to obtain mythics, but if we had more mythics, we probably wouldn't be spending as much money on the game. I have argued that if the drop rate of packs was increased, people might be more excited to spend money on them, but it may be the opposite because clearly people keep buying Dragon's Hoards!

EDHdad

Eh. Dies to removal.

shteev

My name is Ozymandias, king of kings.

Tilikum

paralistalon wrote:

Words

I agree completely. It's nice to have a voice on the forums but money talks a lot louder. We can complain about drop rates as much as we want, but if people keep buying packs nothing is ever going to change.

As far as Olivia goes, I think the people on this thread or the vocal minority. People just paid $30 and it feels like they just bought Game Genie. I think the majority of folks that play this aren't worried about "adjusting to the new meta." Paper MTG is that-a-way.

Also, green ramp is so out of whack they can't even implement a new double colored green planeswalker without catastrophic results.

scydrex

OP? Definitely, yes. Game-Breaking? No. At least not yet, anyway.

I am one of the fortunate few who had the chance of playing her without paying a single dime: Welcome to the Fold + Jace's first ability, thank you for the critter, AI.

I do feel her power is at elite level. But so are many other cards I don't own. Crush of Tentacles, Exert Influence, Day's Undoing, Thopter Spy Network, Tyrant of Valakut... the list goes on and on...

That said, I would much rather face her all day long before seeing another RC in a Gideon Battle Forged deck, a Mirrorpooled Gaea's Revenge in an enraged match or many other of the OP cards in the game.

To me Hexproof and Prevent Damage are much more problematic abilities right now (worse when combined on a single card, cough cough...). Anything else I can pretty much deal with.

I regret that my chances of getting her are probably quite slim. But I can live with that. Those who have spent real world currency in this game deserve the chance to enjoy some perks. If this was a true PvP game I would probably curse their luck at having a budget to spend while I don't. As it is, I will just have to continue to exploit the AI's weaknesses, as many of you continue to do.