Olivia, BAAAROKEN

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majincob
majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
edited September 2016 in MtGPQ General Discussion
I bought Olivia, my first ever $$ spent on this game. She is too strong, I couldn't NOT buy her even though that was my annual shoe budget money gone. She goes in 8 decks and is strong enough to be included in all of them.

Some ideas for the nerf:

Make her trigger on Non-token creatures e.g. Angel's Tomb's nerf.

OR

Fix effects that have discard costs to trigger only if a card is actually discarded. (Can be used to fix Wolf of Devil’s Breach too).

Either of these fixes will keep her really powerful, but somewhat more fair.

Possible fixes that I would prefer not to see:

Raising her mana cost. Red has Koth, and black has Dark Petition and Lilliana, so her cost is not the issue.

Making buff last until end of turn. This would lower the power level for sure, but maybe too much considering cards like Ulvenwald Hydra, Sage of Ancient Lore and any of the other Kiora shenanigan creatures.

Making her not buff herself on entry. I bought her pretty much on this basis as a must have card.

Either of the last two options would have me petitioning to return the card to get my money back.
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Comments

  • 802Blues
    802Blues Posts: 4
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    Why majincob......why!!
    lol. At least let me get her first before they beat it with the nurf bat!
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    edited September 2016
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    802Blues wrote:
    Why majincob......why!!
    lol. At least let me get her first before they beat it with the nurf bat!

    Preferably they would communicate as to whether they will look at adjusting the card before it leaves the store so that people can make an informed choice. This card is so powerful that the uproar over Runaway Carriage will seem laughable. It seems inconceivable that they would leave it as is in the future, but It'll not be nerfed for a week at least so get it while it's hot!
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,227 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited September 2016
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    She is seriously overpowered.

    Seriously.

    1. Every token triggers the ability
    2. The stat gain is permanent (hello, 30/30 Zombies with lifelink)
    3. Haste means this is like Gaea's Revenge on steroids. Sure, it isn't hexproof (unless you play Rai with Sphinx), but when you hastily swing for 40+ in a turn, it doesn't matter.


    Edit to add: So, one caveat is that each triggering of her ability does require you to discard a card. However, if you have madness cards in hand, it will give the +3/+3, etc. but not discard the card. Otherwise, if you run out of cards, the ability won't trigger.
  • octal9
    octal9 Posts: 593 Critical Contributor
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    She could play well with Inverter of Truth on Sorin...
  • ZW2007-
    ZW2007- Posts: 812 Critical Contributor
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    octal9 wrote:
    She could play well with Inverter of Truth on Sorin...
    I'm looking forward to maintenance to end so I can test this out. Sorin has already become very boring for me and Olivia opens up so many new possibilities.
  • glggwp
    glggwp Posts: 202 Tile Toppler
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    can't just say she's broken without many people tried on her yet
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Dude, seriously? I've just spent $300 on Olivia, and while I do agree she will be a useful addition to add to the arsenal of some of the less powerful PWs, like Sarkhan, Ajani, Nahiri, and Saheeli, I think she's perfectly well balanced.

    20 mana is a hell of a lot to pay for a card. Odric is unplayable at 24, remember, and it's only the cost reduction mechanic on Crush of Tentacles that makes it worthy of considering including into a deck. In the time it takes you to play Olivia, I can already have played an RC, Stratus Walk, and Haunted Cloak, and block you all day with mana to spare.

    The fact is that Olivia is easy to deal with for a number of commonly available cards. Engulf the Shores will make your opponent regret having discarded cards to get her into play... all they'll have got out of her is a 22pt swing in life totals per turn. Crush of Tentacles will not only kill Olivia, but block and kill the next one, too, and for only 1 more mana! Descend Upon the Sinful will kill it, and... well probably nothing else, but it is a white card after all, and therefore not allowed to be broken. Drowner of Hope combos easily with From Beyond or Thopter Spy Network, shutting down your opponent's team indefinitely.

    Finding these answers in your deck is a piece of cake if you include cards like Behold the Beyond, Prism Array, or Day's Undoing in your deck. Prism Array isn't even mythic, for christ's sake. Man up and buy some boosters.

    In short, you need to git gud.
  • madwren
    madwren Posts: 2,227 Chairperson of the Boards
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    True, I mean ANY creature can block her with Mantle of Webs.
  • murtagon
    murtagon Posts: 51 Match Maker
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    I tried her out as soon as I saw her available.

    I had
    Olivia
    From Under the Floorboards
    From Under the Floorboards
    From Under the Floorboards
    To the Slaughter
    To the Slaughter


    I cast Olivia - She landed - To the Slaughter was discarded (all three From Under the floorboads recieve 3 mana) she was buffed to 11/11 Haste, Lifelink, Flight -
    From Under the Floorboards is cast
    First zombie lands - To the Slaughter was discarded (remaining two From Under the floorboads recieve 3 mana) zombie was buffed to 5/5 Haste, Lifelink, Flight
    Second zombie lands - Nothing is discarded - Madness prevents the discard. Zombie is buffed to 10/10
    Third zombie lands - Nothing is discarded - Madness prevents the discard. Zombie is buffed to 15/15

    So 27 mana and I end up with an 11/11 Haste, Lifelink, Flight and 15/15 Haste, Lifelink, Flight.

    Best heal in the game. Sorin is so happy.

    However, much as this is fun this is yet another single card that is so powerful it imbalances the game. The power creep really needs to be slowed. At this rate we are going to end up playing a game that requires you to have a single card and you win on first turn....may as well play "flip a coin" if these power level are not contained and reduced.

    The rule to magic has always been to keep the cards balanced to encourage creative usage of cards. Power creep destroys combos - my combo is now...include Olivia and RC in every deck possible, there are a lot of Red PW....
  • Corn_Noodles
    Corn_Noodles Posts: 477 Mover and Shaker
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    majincob wrote:
    Making her not buff herself on entry. I bought her pretty much on this basis as a must have card.
    If it turns out she needs adjustment, I could see this being a way it might go. Change the card text to "other creatures" for the buff. The other possibility is changing the text to "non-token creatures" so she can still buff herself. Time will tell if any of that is needed.
  • GrizzoMtGPQ
    GrizzoMtGPQ Posts: 776 Critical Contributor
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    Would a possible fix to this be that Mythic and rare cards are less likely to draw. This isn't really a deck after all it is a computer game. Mythics could have a lower chance of drawing which would fix a lot of stuff, Rares a little less, etc. I suppose if you had all mythics and rares this wouldn't work but another idea would be to impose limits on planeswalkers for the number of each type of card that can be in a deck (similar to the supports, creatures, spells limits).

    I really want this game to stay balanced. A pox on the developers for screwing it up!
  • jackvett
    jackvett Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
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    GrizzoMtGPQ wrote:
    Would a possible fix to this be that Mythic and rare cards are less likely to draw. This isn't really a deck after all it is a computer game. Mythics could have a lower chance of drawing which would fix a lot of stuff, Rares a little less, etc.

    I really, really don't like this idea. It's just an "out of sight out of mind" fix for a class of cards that the devs seem hellbent on making degenerate. Balancing through this or mana costs (cough cough Koth) just makes zero sense to me, given the power level of Mythics at the moment.

    It's interesting how the Blue, Black, and Red Mythics get to end games time and time again the moment they hit the board (sometimes regardless of board state), and then White gets fat angels and Green gets fatter versions of rare beatsticks.

    I'm fine with the idea of mythic cards being inaccessible rewards for time invested/standings accomplished, but when a single T1 cascade means the entire game is functionally unwinnable outside of an equally impressive cascade into equally impressive cards....well, you're not going to see many people breaking into this game when all they can do is lose.
  • Avacyn
    Avacyn Posts: 89 Match Maker
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    u guys act like removal/bounce spells don't exist in this game. calling nerfs to drowner of hope. ulvenwald hydra, gea's revenge and now olivia? she hasn't been out for more than a day and u guys are already demanding for adjustments. removals are your friends. use them.

    Example:
    Sage cost 10 mana for a 2/2 when she comes on board but can quickly get bumped to some crazy numbers. with one removal and she gone. along with all the investment in her(set up with various spell). one spell countering numerous spells...if anything I think removals are OP lol

    removals are available to everyone. and their cheaper than her huge 20mana cost. I run multiple removals spell in my competitive decks and I top rank often in QBs. it because I have answer to nasty creatures like Olivia. none of these so call OP creature have ever given me problems that I can't deal with.

    wait until we get Emrakul, the promised end... I bit people well be writing ultimatums...if he does come out with eldritch moon.
  • jackvett
    jackvett Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
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    Avacyn wrote:
    removals are available to everyone. and their cheaper than her huge 20mana cost. I run of multiple removals spell in my competitive decks and I top rank often in QBs. it because I have answer to nasty creatures like Olivia. none of these so call OP creature have ever given me problems that I can't deal with.

    Post your decklist. I doubt that the few creatures/creature-generators you run are anything short of the highest quality in-slot in the game. Sure you can run removal-heavy lists, when certain creatures and supports operate at astronomically high power levels. There's no need to call this game balanced just because you play decks with a power level too high to actually lose games.

    Edit: your single-target removal list would also lose furiously to the RC meta unless there's something you're leaving out. So I don't really think you're contributing much here.
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
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    Avacyn wrote:
    u guys act like removal/bounce spells don't exist in this game. calling nerfs to drowner of hope. ulvenwald hydra, gea's revenge and now olivia? she hasn't been out for more than a day and u guys are already demanding for adjustments. removals are your friends. use them.

    Example:
    Sage cost 10 mana for a 2/2 when she comes on board but can quickly get bumped to some crazy numbers. with one removal and she gone. along with all the investment in her(set up with various spell). one spell countering numerous spells...if anything I think removals are OP lol

    removals are available to everyone. and their cheaper than her huge 20mana cost. I run multiple removals spell in my competitive decks and I top rank often in QBs. it because I have answer to nasty creatures like Olivia. none of these so call OP creature have ever given me problems that I can't deal with.

    wait until we get Emrakul, the promised end... I bit people well be writing ultimatums...if he does come out with eldritch moon.

    Yes, the removal has been getting better in the game which allows for more powerful creatures as more people in general have access to those answers. However the game shouldn't be: "Do you have a removal spell in your opening hand? No? Well you lose." Of course that is a little bit further out in the extreme, but with cascades that can already happen somewhat infrequently.

    Don't get me wrong, I love the card and plan to use (abuse) it as long as I can, but putting out a card like this almost forces people to pay to be on top competitively within the window in which it will not be available in packs. Fortunately we will probably get EM set soon which will add Olivia into the pull-able cards in packs opening it up for everyone to have a chance at her with crystals. Even if it is a tiny, tiny chance I'm sure more people will get her that way.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Wait, who's being sarcastic in this thread now? I have no idea.
  • DragonXNIK-
    DragonXNIK- Posts: 24
    edited September 2016
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    If this works the way you guys are describing, this is a slam dunk for saheeli rai. Play olivia, then use her whirlerworks ability. You get a 16/16 flying haste lifelink (and discard your hand) if she lives to your next turn or you 5 matched to get her out.

    According to my coalition mates this only really works if you have any madness cards in hand. Since madness cards can't be discarded, they still count as discard for Olivia's ability to trigger even with no other cards in hand.
  • Barrelrolla
    Barrelrolla Posts: 289
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    I have 3 removal spells and fo some reason they don't remove Gaea icon_question.gif
    Also, with 11/11 and 15/15 with haste and lifelink, even if I have 5 charged removals, I already lost 26 hp and the enemy received that much.
    High mana cost? Do we forget Koth is in the game? And who cares, for what it does, 20 mana is not much. I am using Tyrant in Sarkhan, who's highest mana bonus is +2 amd I've never had isses casting it. Now imagine a 20 mana cost creature in Nahiri, Sorin or Saheeli with two colors at +4 (I actually use Tyrant in Saheeli, so I know it's fast).
    This game is getting ridiculous.
  • jackvett
    jackvett Posts: 141 Tile Toppler
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    Barrelrolla wrote:
    I have 3 removal spells and for some reason they don't remove Gaea icon_question.gif

    There's your sarcasm, Steve.
    Barrelrolla wrote:
    This game is getting ridiculous.

    Except that part.
  • Barrelrolla
    Barrelrolla Posts: 289
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    By the way, who came with the idea that madness cards cannot be discarded?
    "It's so you don't discard it by mistake". If I use an ability that makes the opponent discard his first card, he should discard his first card. Period.
    Unless I can see that the card has Madness, but I don't, do I.
    If that rule was in paper I'd be telling my opponent all my cards have madness. Unless it's face up on the battlefield it is just a card.

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