Tanking is making a mockery of lightning rounds

Unknown

Just a quick vent .... It's **** that people who don't tank have to slug it out in the low 300's for an hour straight, while the people who have tanked their MMR get to coast to 500 and shield up.


I know they say, if you can't beat them .. join them. But I don't have the time or patience to carefully curate a low MMR so I can capitalize on it in select events. All my playtime requires me to try and acquire as much phat loot as possible in the small window of time I have.

Unknown

I'd like to see what exactly is the matchup list of someone who seems to be coasting to top of the LR. I remember when I was running my 2* team I always get smacked by guys who have a maxed pre nerf Ragnarok during the LR, and I wasn't even doing very well back then so I don't understand how people can consistently avoid any remotely challenging opponent. I guess only D3 would have the data but something like seeing the top 10's average level (including boosted characters) versus their opponent's average level would help.

Copps

Back before shielding stopped most attacks I won like 5-6 LRs in a row with a shielded tank team at 2400 getting hit 2-3 times for every victory I had. I know this no longer works but it was quite possible to have a very low mmr and not even hit villain teams until I had 600 points and shield for 25 to win.

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Just a quick vent .... It's tinykitty that people who don't tank have to slug it out in the low 300's for an hour straight, while the people who have tanked their MMR get to coast to 500 and shield up.


I know they say, if you can't beat them .. join them. But I don't have the time or patience to carefully curate a low MMR so I can capitalize on it in select events. All my playtime requires me to try and acquire as much phat loot as possible in the small window of time I have.

I agree with the title -- and same applies to all PVP really. But that is the game as we have it currently. Did we bag endlessly to "fix MMR"? Yep. Made no good. So choice is simple: you tank or you don't win.

I wrote elsewhere that playing natural" was quite unfun for getting the massive beating. Then discovered tanking and can avoid most of it, but it makes the experience even less fun really, like spamming the I win button. But you can collect covers at least and try out different characters.

If you discover any other alternative don't keep it back, but just complaining about the state seem not doing any good.

Unknown

Players will twist any system to their advantage. I doubt there's much they can do it stop tanking.

Unknown

Impulse wrote:

Players will twist any system to their advantage. I doubt there's much they can do it stop tanking.

They can make seed teams award Elo. Please god do not do this.

Unknown

But they give us a 30 minute tank-til-you-break.

I think the seed teams also offer a significant advantage.

Unknown

As I said many times the ELO system is absolutely unfit for this thing. It would be only applicable if players fought each other directly. (and even then would need separation by different formats or at least format groups).

As long as AI plays for you and whoever attack auto-wins (even if we have some small percent of actual losses recently) it can't be fixed only dropped.

All the changes pried this far resulted in some different problems or workarounds. "Tanking" is one of those.

Unknown

pandaberry6 wrote:

But they give us a 30 minute tank-til-you-break.

I think the seed teams also offer a significant advantage.

They do indeed. In recent IM40 round I went over the 250 mark in 30 mins and #1 mostly fighting seed teams. Was really tempted to play through, but switched to tank team instead and left. But it would be a deal of advantage.

OTOH it seem most people just fight 2 games for 50 anyway that leaves those actually fighting with endless row of low-point matches. If point filters were actually implemented in matchmaking as asked, the arena would be quite different.

kaepamerica7

Yeah people who tank are pretty lame, as well as those who dump hundreds of dollars into a free fun game

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

pandaberry6 wrote:

But they give us a 30 minute tank-til-you-break.

I think the seed teams also offer a significant advantage.

They do indeed. In recent IM40 round I went over the 250 mark in 30 mins and #1 mostly fighting seed teams. Was really tempted to play through, but switched to tank team instead and left. But it would be a deal of advantage.

OTOH it seem most people just fight 2 games for 50 anyway that leaves those actually fighting with endless row of low-point matches. If point filters were actually implemented in matchmaking as asked, the arena would be quite different.

I think it's weird that you fight against your mmr up until you reach the top - then you fight the other 5 people at the top. Is that to avoid 1 point matches?

Unknown

bonerang wrote:

Impulse wrote:

Players will twist any system to their advantage. I doubt there's much they can do it stop tanking.

They can make seed teams award Elo. Please god do not do this.

Pretty sure they already do this.

Outside of initial seeding if an early entrant, the seed teams will appear again if MMR drops too low. In this context, their explicit purpose is to raise the player's MMR back to expected levels.

Unknown

Lyrian wrote:

Pretty sure they already do this.

Outside of initial seeding if an early entrant, the seed teams will appear again if MMR drops too low. In this context, their explicit purpose is to raise the player's MMR back to expected levels.

IIRC the seed teams also appeared when people rised too much, see first Elite tournament until they fixed it. Then second Elite tournament ...

Unknown

Honestly this MMR system is too flawed, you can't have a perfect system and there is always people who will exploit the system, but having your MMR decided on the average level of the team you use for example would be much much better on many levels, problem is it would probably be a pain to implement.

This is a small casual cash grab game, they won't invest much ressource to change it from the ground up. Not as long as they make money off it anyway.

Kelbris

Inb4 "Pay Hero Points to lower your MMR!"

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

Just a quick vent .... It's tinykitty that people who don't tank have to slug it out in the low 300's for an hour straight, while the people who have tanked their MMR get to coast to 500 and shield up.


I know they say, if you can't beat them .. join them. But I don't have the time or patience to carefully curate a low MMR so I can capitalize on it in select events. All my playtime requires me to try and acquire as much phat loot as possible in the small window of time I have.

Just want to show your comment some love, I agree with you. It's pretty much the reason I stay away from LRs. It hasn't been that big of a deal to me, I mean doing all the events that are going on at once takes up too much time anyway, but on occasion when I do play it's pretty obvious I won't get anywhere. Meanwhile I can usually rank in the top 5 in tourneys, so something is up.

I have a sneaking suspicion that if people didn't tank their MMRs, the MMR and scaling thing wouldn't be such an issue. I mean if you're up against 141's you should be able to play them. If you're relying on your single 141 to carry the team, find a new strategy, or pay attention to synergy, or level up some more 141s like you're supposed to be doing. Everyone's trying to bend the game to their will without recognizing there is more than one way to play.

Unknown

Viorala wrote:

Toxicadam wrote:

Just a quick vent .... It's tinykitty that people who don't tank have to slug it out in the low 300's for an hour straight, while the people who have tanked their MMR get to coast to 500 and shield up.


I know they say, if you can't beat them .. join them. But I don't have the time or patience to carefully curate a low MMR so I can capitalize on it in select events. All my playtime requires me to try and acquire as much phat loot as possible in the small window of time I have.

I mean if you're up against 141's you should be able to play them. If you're relying on your single 141 to carry the team, find a new strategy, or pay attention to synergy, or level up some more 141s like you're supposed to be doing. Everyone's trying to bend the game to their will without recognizing there is more than one way to play.

Or just ride the tank train to victory town.

Unknown

As stated several times it IS the soul of the system. If you only win and never lose you keep going up and up up until hit the sky. Or 3x141 teams.

You MUST lose in order to just stay in place.

It's up to you *where* you allocate your losses.

Unknown

It's a gem matching game. If this was chess I'd agree that you would need to lose matches to be in your skill range.

As a puzzle quest, you want to win and will pick matches or use boosts to win. If you don't you lose health packs and can't play. For Lightning rounds you need to play the entire time to win. The system clearly doesn't work but it could be worse.

The answer to the question in a casual game should never be "just lose a bunch of games so you can't play for the rest of the day". That's just inane.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

As stated several times it IS the soul of the system. If you only win and never lose you keep going up and up up until hit the sky. Or 3x141 teams.

You MUST lose in order to just stay in place.

It's up to you *where* you allocate your losses.

I get that and I don't have a problem with with tanked MMR's in typical multi-bracketed PvP settings.

But in lightning rounds, which is (supposed to be) for higher level players in a single bracket, MMR should play no role. If you have 420 points and I have 310, I should be able to skip around until I find you. I shouldn't have to constantly cycle through the same 6 guys that have 210 points (and lvl 120+ buffed heros), giving me 20 points a win.

It's a broken-**** tournament that punishes people that play the right way.

Unknown

Chimaera wrote:

The answer to the question in a casual game should never be "just lose a bunch of games so you can't play for the rest of the day". That's just inane.

Sure, everyone here agrees with that, we were whining, mocking, begging, ragequitting and some other things -- nothing changed beyond little tweaks.

So that's what it is, you can live with the reality or keep wishing the creek would run uphill.