New Mission Difficulty Test: Enemy of the State *Updated

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  • Warbringa
    Warbringa Posts: 1,296 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Haha didn't even realize there was a new test going on. I just saw it was EofTS and I decided to skip it since I am still burned out on that event from the last test. Now I am really glad I didn't start playing this one. I have tried to play most, if not all, of the previous PvE tests. Honestly, they simply need to do one of two things:

    1.) Do away with placement rewards and make the entire event progression and/or more node grinding rewards (i.e. place placement rewards that people used to be able to earn into node rewards) - not completely the same though as the Gauntlet model

    2.) Make PvE more diverse instead of one-trick pony it is now - include far more events like Ant-Man event, team events like Ultron, Civil War, and more Gauntlet like events - about 25% of each would be good - that way PvE becomes less grindy than it is now - you will play very different events more often - 1.) short story events with a set 4* reward (run for just two or three days) 2.) team based events that can really put a focus on alliances 3.) the current model where you compete against other players for placement and 4.) a true progression only event like the Gauntlet (although you need to change it up because the current Gauntlet is getting worn out)

    Continuing to jack around with all these tests is becoming tiresome and quite frankly a test on one single event isn't going to even give you conclusive data....

    I really wish I knew what their ultimate purpose for these tests are? To increase general play, to increase revenue, to increase player base quality of life, etc. (Hopefully all 3 actually)
  • Alkyoneus
    Alkyoneus Posts: 116 Tile Toppler
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    OK, I joined Slice 2 a little bit ago, wanted to see how this event is. Initial thoughts based on first few passes:

    Good: Pretty much the same map/scaling/difficulty as always, buffed rewards that actually make you feel like you're earning something.

    Bad: Scaling gets BRUTAL after 6-7 clears, and I'm back to using Infinite forever, this makes it unbelievably boring. Having to start out playing until everything is worth 1 point will get old very quickly. I did 1 full clear and have started working on the survival nodes (Infinite is safe and easy) and I'm already in the top 50. Even then I don't see myself putting in a lot of effort over 7 days due to the scaling becoming untenable.

    I'm farming CP and ISO and that's about it.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
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    If there were rewards for points above max tier (tm. 25 CP), this system would be perfect. Now? Grindfest forcing us to overhit to get best rewards, resulting in reaching much more points than needed for max loot.
  • The Herald
    The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    CT1888 wrote:
    Took a swing at the Jean essentials, took 13 goes to get both CP, so did the other two. My Jean is championed, so it was straightforward (took 2 caltrops in 15 matches) thanks to Mind over Matter wiping them out in one shot up to about round 11. 20/25 minutes all in with Scarlet Witch and IM40.
    In Venom Bomb, that would've been horrible.
    With a low covered 4*, that would've been nasty (unless I had a good 4* boosted).
    Not sure how hard I'll try for the token I'm the wave node or Cps in final node. (will depend on how I get chasing 1000 in Hollowpoint Kiss)

    I like the idea of where this is going though. I think.


    I'm chugging along through that node with a 2 cover Jean, an under level SWitch, and champion Iron Fist. No problems, not hoovering up Health Packs, the first clears where quick and the difficulty hike gradual so I'm getting into a good groove.

    So far this is turning out pretty well.

    I expected 15 hell clears requiring Health Packs each time, but it's actual shocking... by being FUN TO PLAY instead of an unpaid job.
  • PeeOne
    PeeOne Posts: 237 Tile Toppler
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    I haven't read all the entries here... So not sure if I'm the only one.... But.....

    I love this!!!

    20,000 ISO earned by not playing any more than usual... Definitely worth it!!
  • Seriously
    Seriously Posts: 17 Just Dropped In
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    Seems to be some sort of rubber banding in effect, was in first place in my main and sub bracket, having grinded everything to heck and back, without failing a wave node etc, and am now second by over 100 points. Ah well.

    Scratch that, just noticed that despite having all the rewards from the Jean Grey essential node, there's still points in it o.O Apologies.
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
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    PeeOne wrote:
    I haven't read all the entries here... So not sure if I'm the only one.... But.....

    I love this!!!

    20,000 ISO earned by not playing any more than usual... Definitely worth it!!
    20 000? How long were you grinding that? 4 hours? Rate of time : reward remains unchanged i am afraid. Unless you are among those, who drain all rewards from all nodes.

    I am someone, who do enough to get 25 CPs... nothing changed for me.
  • Khaoz77
    Khaoz77 Posts: 16
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    You and everyone else. We are all playing the same game, and just because people were clearing optimally under the last system doesn't mean they will continue to do so under the new system. The only thing that would require you to play more for the same placement is other people playing - not the system itself.

    Totally agree. I think this is a fair system. I play more (or better if I can clear harder subs), I get more rewards. In previous PvE that was more like "if you can put the game above everything else in your life, you'll get rewards."

    I have a very difficult schedule, always changing, and I just can't do even 1 straight hour of play every 8 hours. But I certainly can sum 3 hours in my spare time on the whole day, e.g. while eating, before bed... I can make a 3 hour session if I feel like!

    So, I'm all in to this kind of PvE.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
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    PeeOne wrote:
    I haven't read all the entries here... So not sure if I'm the only one.... But.....

    I love this!!!

    20,000 ISO earned by not playing any more than usual... Definitely worth it!!
    Ok, what will you get in the remaining 36-40 of the sub?
  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
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    I played enough to know that the combination of scaling and clear requirements is going to turn me off from PvE completely.

    I cleared two hard nodes to their highest difficulty, and took one to 15/15. Those two hard nodes scaled from their starting point (which was roughly on par with the hardest nodes I fight under the old system) to a level where the enemies had more than 3 times the health and damage of the starting values.

    That is pants-on-head crazy when you're at those levels. By the end of it, I was fighting a level 501 2* Wolverine with more than 70,000 health, who did 26,000 damage with his Adamantium Slash. Those levels are simply ungrindable when only a tiny fraction of your roster is usable, which is the case for people who don't softcap their roster.

    You guys have the opportunity to rethink and fix PvE. This is a massive step backwards, that carries forward most of the flaws, makes some placebo changes, and piles incredibly punitive scaling on top of it.

    If anyone is on the fence about spending time or money to advance their roster in this game, this should convince them not to.
  • The Herald
    The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    I played enough to know that the combination of scaling and clear requirements is going to turn me off from PvE completely.

    I cleared two hard nodes to their highest difficulty, and took one to 15/15. Those two hard nodes scaled from their starting point (which was roughly on par with the hardest nodes I fight under the old system) to a level where the enemies had more than 3 times the health and damage of the starting values.

    That is pants-on-head crazy when you're at those levels. By the end of it, I was fighting a level 501 2* Wolverine with more than 70,000 health, who did 26,000 damage with his Adamantium Slash. Those levels are simply ungrindable when only a tiny fraction of your roster is usable, which is the case for people who don't softcap their roster.

    You guys have the opportunity to rethink and fix PvE. This is a massive step backwards, that carries forward most of the flaws, makes some placebo changes, and piles incredibly punitive scaling on top of it.

    If anyone is on the fence about spending time or money to advance their roster in this game, this should convince them not to.

    It sounds like you've been scaled out of the game O.o

    As a 3* scrub I've been having a great time. As someone who doesn't intend to remain a 3* scrub forever, THAT SOUNDS TERRIFYING.

    What is it that's tripping you up, do you think? Is the 4* bracket screwed up? Or are you being killed by 5*s?

    If it's the 5*s, they really need to do one of two things until they actually work out a fair balance.
    Either NOT scale based on 5*s, and just let the people who worked on having the best characters in the game enjoy a good rampage with their hard work.
    Or else bar 5*s from events they would ruin the scaling.

    Heck, you know what?

    How about an option to deactivate your 5* characters in PvE?

    You can use them if you want to.

    You can switch them off and just plat with your working 4* roster, and not get obliterated by over scaling.
  • fmftint
    fmftint Posts: 3,653 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I played enough to know that the combination of scaling and clear requirements is going to turn me off from PvE completely.

    I cleared two hard nodes to their highest difficulty, and took one to 15/15. Those two hard nodes scaled from their starting point (which was roughly on par with the hardest nodes I fight under the old system) to a level where the enemies had more than 3 times the health and damage of the starting values.

    That is pants-on-head crazy when you're at those levels. By the end of it, I was fighting a level 501 2* Wolverine with more than 70,000 health, who did 26,000 damage with his Adamantium Slash. Those levels are simply ungrindable when only a tiny fraction of your roster is usable, which is the case for people who don't softcap their roster.

    You guys have the opportunity to rethink and fix PvE. This is a massive step backwards, that carries forward most of the flaws, makes some placebo changes, and piles incredibly punitive scaling on top of it.

    If anyone is on the fence about spending time or money to advance their roster in this game, this should convince them not to.

    Which brings us right back to
    Here’s word from Demiurge:
    “The difference between this matchmaking system and the old one is in how we calculate your rating and the ratings of the teams you come up against. Ratings now take into account power upgrades and the ways different characters and rarities upgrade their health and damage. The hope is that the new ratings are a more accurate estimate of teams' power, and that weird strategies like not leveling up your characters are no longer helpful.
    viewtopic.php?f=13&t=38847


    Now I ask, What have these tests accomplished, ultimately?
  • The Herald
    The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    Are wave fails impacting standings?

    My overall rank and chapter rank have synched up, and I haven't bothered regrinding the into event yet.

    It's normally slightly off unless I go back and cheese someow impact points. It was definitely out of synch a little while ago.
  • Stax the Foyer
    Stax the Foyer Posts: 941 Critical Contributor
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    The Herald wrote:
    I played enough to know that the combination of scaling and clear requirements is going to turn me off from PvE completely.

    I cleared two hard nodes to their highest difficulty, and took one to 15/15. Those two hard nodes scaled from their starting point (which was roughly on par with the hardest nodes I fight under the old system) to a level where the enemies had more than 3 times the health and damage of the starting values.

    That is pants-on-head crazy when you're at those levels. By the end of it, I was fighting a level 501 2* Wolverine with more than 70,000 health, who did 26,000 damage with his Adamantium Slash. Those levels are simply ungrindable when only a tiny fraction of your roster is usable, which is the case for people who don't softcap their roster.

    You guys have the opportunity to rethink and fix PvE. This is a massive step backwards, that carries forward most of the flaws, makes some placebo changes, and piles incredibly punitive scaling on top of it.

    If anyone is on the fence about spending time or money to advance their roster in this game, this should convince them not to.

    It sounds like you've been scaled out of the game O.o

    As a 3* scrub I've been having a great time. As someone who doesn't intend to remain a 3* scrub forever, THAT SOUNDS TERRIFYING.

    What is it that's tripping you up, do you think? Is the 4* bracket screwed up? Or are you being killed by 5*s?

    If it's the 5*s, they really need to do one of two things until they actually work out a fair balance.
    Either NOT scale based on 5*s, and just let the people who worked on having the best characters in the game enjoy a good rampage with their hard work.
    Or else bar 5*s from events they would ruin the scaling.

    Heck, you know what?

    How about an option to deactivate your 5* characters in PvE?

    You can use them if you want to.

    You can switch them off and just plat with your working 4* roster, and not get obliterated by over scaling.

    I'm glad the changes are working for you. I think you're in a sweet spot where there's a bunch of content tailored to your roster level. Hopefully by the time you progress further, the content will have kept pace.

    I also think you're right that 5*s are just off the edge of the map at this point. There's no content that really works for the 4* tier, let alone the 5* tier.

    Anything, whether lockouts, scaled rewards, or anything else they could think of, would help. But there's nothing.

    I just wanted to provide a concrete example, so the players at other tiers could understand what we're talking about when we provide our feedback.
  • The Herald
    The Herald Posts: 463 Mover and Shaker
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    The Herald wrote:
    I played enough to know that the combination of scaling and clear requirements is going to turn me off from PvE completely.

    I cleared two hard nodes to their highest difficulty, and took one to 15/15. Those two hard nodes scaled from their starting point (which was roughly on par with the hardest nodes I fight under the old system) to a level where the enemies had more than 3 times the health and damage of the starting values.

    That is pants-on-head crazy when you're at those levels. By the end of it, I was fighting a level 501 2* Wolverine with more than 70,000 health, who did 26,000 damage with his Adamantium Slash. Those levels are simply ungrindable when only a tiny fraction of your roster is usable, which is the case for people who don't softcap their roster.

    You guys have the opportunity to rethink and fix PvE. This is a massive step backwards, that carries forward most of the flaws, makes some placebo changes, and piles incredibly punitive scaling on top of it.

    If anyone is on the fence about spending time or money to advance their roster in this game, this should convince them not to.

    It sounds like you've been scaled out of the game O.o

    As a 3* scrub I've been having a great time. As someone who doesn't intend to remain a 3* scrub forever, THAT SOUNDS TERRIFYING.

    What is it that's tripping you up, do you think? Is the 4* bracket screwed up? Or are you being killed by 5*s?

    If it's the 5*s, they really need to do one of two things until they actually work out a fair balance.
    Either NOT scale based on 5*s, and just let the people who worked on having the best characters in the game enjoy a good rampage with their hard work.
    Or else bar 5*s from events they would ruin the scaling.

    Heck, you know what?

    How about an option to deactivate your 5* characters in PvE?

    You can use them if you want to.

    You can switch them off and just plat with your working 4* roster, and not get obliterated by over scaling.

    I'm glad the changes are working for you. I think you're in a sweet spot where there's a bunch of content tailored to your roster level. Hopefully by the time you progress further, the content will have kept pace.

    I also think you're right that 5*s are just off the edge of the map at this point. There's no content that really works for the 4* tier, let alone the 5* tier.

    Anything, whether lockouts, scaled rewards, or anything else they could think of, would help. But there's nothing.

    I just wanted to provide a concrete example, so the players at other tiers could understand what we're talking about when we provide our feedback.

    It's a surprise to me, and I'm sorry you're being punished for playing longer than I have.

    I'm hoping they work it out, because if the game retains us as players were going to all end up stuck where you are, and it's important we all back you up!

    3* level is working fine.

    Veterans need a rebalance.

    Let's hope the devs can work with that.
  • awarnica
    awarnica Posts: 44 Just Dropped In
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    Well I'm pretty annoyed. Joined shard 1 about 5-6 hours ago, at 833.
    Finished grinding every single node for the maximum number of times. Tedious, and took hours (3-4 maybe?).
    Now I'm third in the sub, with 1 day, 8 hours left. No chance to play more to get 1st/2nd.
    Can't play again until Sunday morning.

    If I was in a tie for first - id be all in on this system. Weekend saved, play whenever I want. But now im just annoyed.
    Id love to give D3 the benefit of the doubt here, but I cannot. Now instead of a 2 hour race at the end of the sub it's a 4 hour race at the beginning of the sub.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Every time I feel tempted to hit that max button on my 5*s, the developers find some way to remind me that it's a bad idea.
  • Buret0
    Buret0 Posts: 1,591
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    This wouldn't be so painful if they fixed the new lag feature.
  • dlegendary0ne
    dlegendary0ne Posts: 93 Match Maker
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    Maybe I missed something, but if everyone grinds and completes all nodes, won't everyone have the same amount of points?

    I don't know how it works when two players have the same amount of points. Does the 1st place spot go to the one who gets there first?
  • jgomes32
    jgomes32 Posts: 381 Mover and Shaker
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    Maybe I missed something, but if everyone grinds and completes all nodes, won't everyone have the same amount of points?

    I don't know how it works when two players have the same amount of points. Does the 1st place spot go to the one who gets there first?

    Yes, getting the points first breaks the tie.