New Mission Difficulty Test: Enemy of the State *Updated

Maxim1980

This is good solution! Thanks. I hate to fight for 20iso, and here I have some bonus each fight.

Also i don't have any possibility to play every 8h, so now i can play at preferred time.

Just one thing. For 1w events good to have 40points in end

Dragon_Nexus

nick_chicane wrote:

I dont understand why they've messed with the scaling. The difficulty was largely praised in the last test. For me at least, the hardest it reached was a hard fight but achievable.

Currently, with 8 fights faced of the toughest fight in this new test, the scaling has now gone beyond all my boosted characters. By the time I reach the 10/11 fight its going to be unbeatable.

The amount of clears is bonkers too. People complained that 7 was too many, so they reduced it to 4. So whats the obvious step from that? Raise it to 15!

Two steps forward, 3 back it seems with D3.

Yeah, exactly.
I must have mis-read the opening post somehow because 15 clears per node surprised me. I've only completed one of these tests and it was Rocket & Groot because the number of clears actually felt okay there. This one I did 5 clears of each node last night and burnt out completely. Now I look and see I'm ranked 250th or there abouts and to get back up I'll probably need to grind everything down to 0 and I really do not feel like doing another 10 clears of each node only to have to repeat that tonight.

It's annoying because I could really do with more ISO but I'm probably going to ditch this test after one day, too.

Rocket & Groot allowed me to keep to my previous schedule of one clear when it opens, one clear about 6 hours later before I go to bed, one clear after I've woken up and then as many clears as I feel like before the sub event ends. Rince and repeat. Same schedule I've used for non-tests that I find enjoyable.
This test is back to the original goal of "Play whenever you want, just make sure you grinding everything down to zero within 24 hours or you can forget about it."
I don't even feel like making the effort for progression any more.

Edgeman

Actually I think if all PvEs uses the Gauntlet format, most problems will be solved.

Darknes21

The gauntlet sucks!

Nick441234

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Yeah, exactly.
I must have mis-read the opening post somehow because 15 clears per node surprised me. I've only completed one of these tests and it was Rocket & Groot because the number of clears actually felt okay there. This one I did 5 clears of each node last night and burnt out completely. Now I look and see I'm ranked 250th or there abouts and to get back up I'll probably need to grind everything down to 0 and I really do not feel like doing another 10 clears of each node only to have to repeat that tonight.

It's annoying because I could really do with more ISO but I'm probably going to ditch this test after one day, too.

Rocket & Groot allowed me to keep to my previous schedule of one clear when it opens, one clear about 6 hours later before I go to bed, one clear after I've woken up and then as many clears as I feel like before the sub event ends. Rince and repeat. Same schedule I've used for non-tests that I find enjoyable.
This test is back to the original goal of "Play whenever you want, just make sure you grinding everything down to zero within 24 hours or you can forget about it."
I don't even feel like making the effort for progression any more.

Its frustrating. We've been guinea pigs for, is it 4 tests now? Anyway, I dont really have an issue with that as long as the devs are learning from the bad experiences and cutting them out. It seemed like they were getting it almost right in the last test so that made me feel positive about the awful tests we'd had to tolerate prior to that. I presumed that this test would be the clincher, the one where everyone said "yes, you've got it right now!".

Sadly, other that the increased ISO, which is fantastic, I feel like we've regressed to a stage worse than the original test. Who on earth wants to hit nodes 15 times over two days? Whats worse is that if you haven't hammered them all straight away, you have no chance of the top rewards. This is worse than any of the tests we've been put through up to date.

Even after this two day grindfest is finished, theres still another 5 days to go too! I love the increased ISO, but this isn't fun in the slightest.

broll

I tried this and I think I like it better than the last test, but it's still not perfect.

Pros:
- I like the starting with low leveled nodes and they get harder each time vs attacking the same difficulty multiple times.
- I like that they dropped the regen time, this allows me more freedom to play as I feel (If I don't care about rank, more on that below)

Cons:
- 15 per node is waaayyy too many. I though 7 was fine, anything higher than 10 is too many IMO.
- The fact that this still has a ranking I don't like. Honestly this would have been close to perfect if they made this progression only.

mohio

veny wrote:

If there were rewards for points above max tier (tm. 25 CP), this system would be perfect. Now? Grindfest forcing us to overhit to get best rewards, resulting in reaching much more points than needed for max loot.

This is exactly what is happening in PvP, but no one seems to be too upset about it on the forums. Join s4 and you're gonna need 3-4k to get anywhere near top placements...and last I checked progression still stops at 1300. Maybe PvP isn't quite as "grindy" as PvE, but these guys are still putting in tons of time on Line coordinating hops, etc. just so they can be t10 and have an okay season placement.

GrumpySmurf1002

nick_chicane wrote:

Who on earth wants to hit nodes 15 times over two days?

This is actually easier that what optimal people do in old system (144 nodes in old system - 123 in the test), though at least they get a break from the monotony of the same opponents.

This test's 1-day sub is basically the same thing: 75 nodes over 24 hours, compared to 72 nodes in old system.

Ducky

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

Who on earth wants to hit nodes 15 times over two days?

This is actually easier that what optimal people do in old system (144 nodes in old system - 123 in the test), though at least they get a break from the monotony of the same opponents.

This test's 1-day sub is basically the same thing: 75 nodes over 24 hours, compared to 72 nodes in old system.

Except in the old system levels are capped at 325. Mine maxed at 444 this sub. That makes it take a lot longer...among other things.

Nick441234

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

Who on earth wants to hit nodes 15 times over two days?

This is actually easier that what optimal people do in old system (144 nodes in old system - 123 in the test), though at least they get a break from the monotony of the same opponents.

This test's 1-day sub is basically the same thing: 75 nodes over 24 hours, compared to 72 nodes in old system.

Well, for me, under the old system, I could finish top 50 with 6 clears and a grind at the end on a 2 day sub. I've already hit some of the nodes 10 times and I'm 95th. This is not better.

wymtime

Welcome Death wrote:

"David wrote:

Moore"]
o In one-day sub-chapters, Easy missions increase in difficulty 4 times and are worth points the first 7 times they are beaten. Hard and Required Character missions increase in difficulty 6 times and are worth points the first 9 times they are beaten.
o In two-day sub-chapters, Easy missions increase in difficulty 8 times and are worth points the first 11 times they are beaten. Hard and Required Character missions increase in difficulty 12 times and are worth points the first 15 times they are beaten.

Is this really necessary? Under the old system the most you could get was about 6.5 clears worth of points if you hit it 3 times plus 6 at end. Why keep the amount of clears so crazy? Reduce it to 6 for a one day, 12 for a 2 day on all nodes. Point will stay about the same as before without having to move progression. And put the damn 3* and 4* rewards at the end of the progression, take out placement. Daily placement rewards? Include them in a daily progression list. Alliance placement rewards? CW type ally progression. The last one would probably piss off a few pve-ers that are in pvp only allies and can no longer merc, but everybody cant win everything. Guaranteed youd see more hybrids, especially if its slightly less play (as mentioned). Youre so close, take the final step.

I am now on this bandwagon now. This test would be perfect for progression only rewards. Cap the number of points per sub but still allow for grinding for ISO and whatever. If this was a progression only system and you could stop after day 5 of 7 awsome. If you want to spread out you clears you can. Placing a system where on day 7 you have to grind down 10 nodes 7 times for placement after daily play for 6 other days is harsh. Make this progress only and you got it

Stax the Foyer

mohio wrote:

veny wrote:

If there were rewards for points above max tier (tm. 25 CP), this system would be perfect. Now? Grindfest forcing us to overhit to get best rewards, resulting in reaching much more points than needed for max loot.

This is exactly what is happening in PvP, but no one seems to be too upset about it on the forums. Join s4 and you're gonna need 3-4k to get anywhere near top placements...and last I checked progression still stops at 1300. Maybe PvP isn't quite as "grindy" as PvE, but these guys are still putting in tons of time on Line coordinating hops, etc. just so they can be t10 and have an okay season placement.

Two reasons for that:

First, because with the exception of the first place cover and some ISO, the best rewards in PvP are the progression rewards. Everything else is just for bragging rights, really.

Second, there's no mechanism layered on top of the existing vet/new bracket system to further penalize people. The people who get top rankings are the people who put in the coordination or have the rosters to support those rankings. The scores are crazy, but people looking at it can understand how the results shook out. It feels more fair.

In PvE, the ranking awards can be substantially more appealing than the progression rewards. That incentivizes the overgrinding, whereas people in PvP can stop when they hit 1300 and feel pretty good about it. In PvE, the valuable ranking awards depend on some combination of crazy grinding and bracket luck.

Dark Nova

I think the aim of this test is not to gauge player enjoyment, but to see what lengths players will go to for the top rewards. Hopefully it's an indicator that progression-only rewards are on the way. I'll explain...

From the devs' perspective, before they can introduce progression as the qualifier for top rewards, they have to know where to set the points benchmark to maintain the 'economy' that only six 4* covers will be given out for every 1000 players (as it is now). I can just imagine the development meeting - "let's give them 15 chances per node to gain points and see how far they get - no-one will ever beat them all - then we can set progression rewards levels based on the top 0.6% of scores achieved." A nice theory, but it underestimates the competitiveness of many players - I know some who currently have max points available but are only ranked 180. That's some crazy grinding going on! If this test ends up showing that the top 200 from every slice achieved the highest possible score then clearly the difficulty level is too low and the next test will have to increase scaling to separate the top players. It's like setting an exam - it serves no purpose if the majority score 100%.

So, to all the grinders out there who intend to clear every node as many times as possible, as quickly as possible, I think you're shooting yourselves (and the rest of us) in the foot.

revskip

Loved the last test, Rocket and Groot was near perfect for me, with the exception of the 20 points per easy node hit. This test simply has too many clears. It stopped being fun about an hour in when I realized that even though I am not spending healthpacks to clear wave nodes there are still dozens more to do.

carrion_pigeons

Dark Nova wrote:

I think the aim of this test is not to gauge player enjoyment, but to see what lengths players will go to for the top rewards. Hopefully it's an indicator that progression-only rewards are on the way. I'll explain...

From the devs' perspective, before they can introduce progression as the qualifier for top rewards, they have to know where to set the points benchmark to maintain the 'economy' that only six 4* covers will be given out for every 1000 players (as it is now). I can just imagine the development meeting - "let's give them 15 chances per node to gain points and see how far they get - no-one will ever beat them all - then we can set progression rewards levels based on the top 0.6% of scores achieved." A nice theory, but it underestimates the competitiveness of many players - I know some who currently have max points available but are only ranked 180. That's some crazy grinding going on! If this test ends up showing that the top 200 from every slice achieved the highest possible score then clearly the difficulty level is too low and the next test will have to increase scaling to separate the top players. It's like setting an exam - it serves no purpose if the majority score 100%.

So, to all the grinders out there who intend to clear every node as many times as possible, as quickly as possible, I think you're shooting yourselves (and the rest of us) in the foot.

I've been thinking about this but I don't think it tracks. They know perfectly well by now what degree of scaling creates the most player engagement and after this test it will also be very clear that it doesn't line up with those 10-20 percent with a competitive mindset. Trying to implement a design that is satisfying to both pieces of the puzzle can't be done with scaling, and their tests show it pretty conclusively.

Either they decide to design events to cater specifically to player engagement or to competitiveness, or else they come up with a different metric to vary than scaling.

fmftint

We're well into sub 1 now and I could go on and on repeating what many others have already said so I won't be doing that. Instead let's see what Nick Fury thinks

Xzasxz

PeeOne wrote:

I haven't read all the entries here... So not sure if I'm the only one.... But.....

I love this!!!

20,000 ISO earned by not playing any more than usual... Definitely worth it!!

madsalad wrote:

Joking or what? The total ammount of ISO to be earned from all nodes is 22 430 in 89 matches. You can add 15 RT to the total of nearly 24k ISO in 104 matches. Plus 8 other rewards. Are u telling me, u are playng ca 100 matches every day?
It's true, that there is more iso to earn, but definitely playing more than before.

awarnica wrote:

Well I'm pretty annoyed. Joined shard 1 about 5-6 hours ago, at 833.
Finished grinding every single node for the maximum number of times. Tedious, and took hours (3-4 maybe?).
Now I'm third in the sub, with 1 day, 8 hours left. No chance to play more to get 1st/2nd.
Can't play again until Sunday morning.

If I was in a tie for first - id be all in on this system. Weekend saved, play whenever I want. But now im just annoyed.
Id love to give D3 the benefit of the doubt here, but I cannot. Now instead of a 2 hour race at the end of the sub it's a 4 hour race at the beginning of the sub.

You averaged 2 minutes per match, playing straight through? There are a 112 clears at 4 hours that is 2.14 minutes per match. not counting the 4 clears from the node on the main event. That's seems insane and super fast matches. And that doesn't account for any time between matches. I know I was playing a lot last night, definitely not straight through, and I only did 46 clears.

People lie (why ?) or cannot count. 41 of these 112 clears are waves. One would be insanely lucky to make it in such a short time. Even if not loosing one single match (in such rush not possible), not usinng health packs, no changing teams between matches etc. So talk about reality, not dreams.

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

Who on earth wants to hit nodes 15 times over two days?

This is actually easier that what optimal people do in old system (144 nodes in old system - 123 in the test), though at least they get a break from the monotony of the same opponents.

This test's 1-day sub is basically the same thing: 75 nodes over 24 hours, compared to 72 nodes in old system.

So many nodes were done maybe by T10. Usually 40 was enough to be T100. Not now.

mohio wrote:

veny wrote:

If there were rewards for points above max tier (tm. 25 CP), this system would be perfect. Now? Grindfest forcing us to overhit to get best rewards, resulting in reaching much more points than needed for max loot.

This is exactly what is happening in PvP, but no one seems to be too upset about it on the forums. Join s4 and you're gonna need 3-4k to get anywhere near top placements...and last I checked progression still stops at 1300. Maybe PvP isn't quite as "grindy" as PvE, but these guys are still putting in tons of time on Line coordinating hops, etc. just so they can be t10 and have an okay season placement.

So we want the same in STORY enents? Really? And pls stop calling VERSUS PvP. There is no such thing as PvP in MPQ. You never play against LIVE ENEMY, always against computer

BlackSheep101

Trivial nodes take far less than 2 minutes to complete. Sometimes they're over in a under 20 seconds with the right cascade and powers. 5*s can end things with a couple of crits, and boosted Jean probably ends the match with 10 purple or 12 green.

Square-Chopper

Just finished clearing everything out in the first sub and ended up ranked 17th. I didn't hate it, but it was certainly tedious and not particularly fun. (OML being locked out doesn't do this event any favors, test or no test.)

My overwhelming thought is that it felt just about right for what a progression only system should feel like. If it were a matter of choosing to grind as much as I just did in order to get a guaranteed "X" progression reward (like in the CW event), then it seemed pretty fair.

To do all that grinding trying to be competitive and then NOT get the rewards you were going for would just be like a kick in the gut.

evade420

This is crazy.
With the old system and even with the last couple of tests I always made at least the top 50 usually T20.
... and I only did 2 clears and grind the easy nodes (about 2.5 - 3hrs) of play time a day.
(I always pick slice 1 and don't start until 12hrs in)
so far I ve played almost double that and haven't even broken the top 100.
I'm all for more rewards but re-playing a node more than 7 times, especially a wave node to benefit from those rewards is crazy.
the fact that I had to play that stupid 2 wave node 15 times to get EotS token is insane especially since all I got for it was a 2* cover, not to mention that the enemy level went up to over 400?!

This is by and large the worst test ever, scrap this **** and go back to the old system... problem solved