New Mission Difficulty Test: Enemy of the State *Updated

Gmax101

Malcrof wrote:

Sub one rewards :

Hard and essential all have
1x 70 iso, 2x 100 iso, 5x 250 iso
Hard and essential wave have 3x 500 iso, 2x std token and 1 crit boost
Hard wave has gold token
essential wave has 1000 iso
Hard and essential non wave have 4x500 iso, either 2 cp and 1 std or 2 std and 1 crit boost
Easy 3x 70 iso, 2 x 100 iso, 4x 200 iso, 2 x std (easy wave has one less 200 and 1000 instead)

Total = 22030 iso plus at least 1400 iso from std tokens

credit to Pumpin81 for the research!

This is a huge improvement in rewards. Haven't hit insane scaling yet, but i am sure it will show up eventually.

that's a quite far removed from the "Rain of Critical Boosts" that was expected lol

Looking forward to getting in to it.

Though I do think that it would be better if things like the CP could be got without necessarily having to grind the node to the final level...

I almost want prescribed sequence of rewards... or just banding them in to waves...

so standard clearance is the first 4 clears... might include the CP
Grind rewards are only available to the hardcore players or better rosters and that includes the higher ISO and extra tokens etc...

even with a little "Grind Mode Unlocked" alert or fanfair.

CrookedKnight

Even with little/no farming, just three clears and you're done, you're still going to get significantly more ISO on average than you would from the standard reward system. The only place it doesn't measure up is survival nodes, comparing the guaranteed 1000 ISO/token from before to just a chance of them now.

an1979

thanos8587 wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Sub one rewards :
....

and this takes how much time?

Pfft... what is 6 hours?
And you will win all those lovely crits that.... wont... die.... too!

Nick441234

You know all thats going to happen is its going to be even more harder to get the CP. It will, conveniently, be one of the last ones you can earn.

Without an increase in health packs, it doesn't really matter how much more ISO there is because you wont be able to get it all without buying health packs.

The Viceroy Returns

ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:

Having just gone through each node once, i can tell you without a doubt this is the worst time i've ever had in this game. I grinded the last wave node trying to get the token, i did it NINE times before the token dropped. My scaling started at 251 and on my last one was at 381, even with Quake champed and boosted at 350 pyros were still doing 5k team damage(and that's with 6k less cause of quake) and soon as i got it my first immediately thought "no way i'm doing anymore".

How bad where the Caltrops?
I can imagine one or two unlucky runs and you've lost the "placement ranking race".

Malcrof

nick_chicane wrote:

You know all thats going to happen is its going to be even more harder to get the CP. It will, conveniently, be one of the last ones you can earn.

Without an increase in health packs, it doesn't really matter how much more ISO there is because you wont be able to get it all without buying health packs.

Got 2 on the first clear.. not harder at all.

GrumpySmurf1002

Malcrof wrote:

Sub one rewards :

Hard and essential all have
1x 70 iso, 2x 100 iso, 5x 250 iso
Hard and essential wave have 3x 500 iso, 2x std token and 1 crit boost
Hard wave has gold token
essential wave has 1000 iso
Hard and essential non wave have 4x500 iso, either 2 cp and 1 std or 2 std and 1 crit boost
Easy 3x 70 iso, 2 x 100 iso, 4x 200 iso, 2 x std (easy wave has one less 200 and 1000 instead)

Total = 22030 iso plus at least 1400 iso from std tokens

credit to Pumpin81 for the research!

This is a huge improvement in rewards. Haven't hit insane scaling yet, but i am sure it will show up eventually.

ROI on a std is about 130iso (excluding champion benefits). So the whole thing works out to about 194 iso per battle.

I'm curious if that's actually a huge improvement.

Edit:

Just breaking it out further:

Waves - 41 clears - 9830 iso (+heroic worth ~343iso) = 239.75 per battle
Non-Waves - 82 clears - 14020 iso = 170.97 per battle.

The non-wave doesn't strike me as a massive increase, but I could be wrong. Would want to compare to Venom Bomb but can't this second.


Edit2:

Venom bomb has 4 x 610 and 5 x 1020 nodes, with 7 standards over 63 nodes = 134.13 per clear. So the test seems more lucrative, though over 63 clears your results will vary in the test environment.

But really need to compare to the one day sub to really see the difference, still a little apples/oranges

stochasticism

Malcrof wrote:

Sub one rewards :

Hard and essential all have
1x 70 iso, 2x 100 iso, 5x 250 iso
Hard and essential wave have 3x 500 iso, 2x std token and 1 crit boost
Hard wave has gold token
essential wave has 1000 iso
Hard and essential non wave have 4x500 iso, either 2 cp and 1 std or 2 std and 1 crit boost
Easy 3x 70 iso, 2 x 100 iso, 4x 200 iso, 2 x std (easy wave has one less 200 and 1000 instead)

Total = 22030 iso plus at least 1400 iso from std tokens

credit to Pumpin81 for the research!

This is a huge improvement in rewards. Haven't hit insane scaling yet, but i am sure it will show up eventually.

Isn't this sub 48h so the rewards are doubled compared to a normal sub.

pumpkin81

an1979 wrote:

thanos8587 wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Sub one rewards :
....

and this takes how much time?

Pfft... what is 6 hours?
And you will win all those lovely crits that.... wont... die.... too!

There are 3 crits out of 114 rewards I'd say thats pretty good considering they used to be in every node pretty much.
I left out the free node thats another 400 iso and std token

energomash

Vhailorx wrote:

Varg,

The reason that demiurge doesn't want to give out more prog rewards is that doing so would mean giving out more prizes. Every cover they give out is one they don't sell via token packs or cp direct buy. I think it's possible to argue that better rewards lead to more player engagement/good will which is good for the game; but it's also possible to say that more rewards = less revenue.

With placement rewards we fight each other, and only a set % of players get anything. The rewards rate is fixed. With prog rewards, demiurge has to calibrate the difficulty appropriately (too low and everyone gets them, too high and no one does). It's more work them, and it (arguably) generates less revenue.

if you have rewards doled out for completing a node to get X points and then sequential rewards when you hit every 1000, then you could fold all those smaller rewards into the sequential rewards and hand them out every 200 or 300 points and have the same effect. yes, you can pay to win, but the current structure could be blended and achieve the same thing without having to pay money, as you propose.

smkspy

Personally, I think it's time to replace the std token with a heroic token, at least in the harder nodes. I don't mind harder modes, just make them worth my time.

TimGunn

XandorXerxes wrote:

You don't have to grind early all 7 days - just the last one. Everyone will have the same max score going into the last event regardless of their ranking. Whoever finishes that last event first wins, even if they were the last person to full clear each previous sub.

Thank you for explaining this! I was like "ooooooh"

cyineedsn

Malcrof wrote:

nick_chicane wrote:

You know all thats going to happen is its going to be even more harder to get the CP. It will, conveniently, be one of the last ones you can earn.

Without an increase in health packs, it doesn't really matter how much more ISO there is because you wont be able to get it all without buying health packs.

Got 2 on the first clear.. not harder at all.

So are the odds of getting the CP to drop better/worse/the same?

Tryke

Gotta love their solution to the wave node problem. Let's put that event token as part of a 15 reward prize pool instead!

djpt05

Please tell me 15 rewards on the essential 4* is a bug...

Crowl

rubix_qube wrote:

They've already tested this type of event with the Gauntlet runs. The devs should have a good idea what levels are too easy and what are too difficult. We all found out what too difficult was during the Gauntlet after the first Civil War event. They had to dial that one back a bunch. Any event can be run as a gauntlet style event, just make each sub progressively harder to start so that reaching top rewards is still challenging. Each sub's rewards can also increase (maybe with more iso or perhaps extra event tokens) as each sub gets tougher to grind.

I'm not sure I understand their apprehension at giving what the customers are begging for. I don't buy in to the "customer is always right" slogan, but sometimes they are. Give it a shot one time, devs.

Generally speaking, people are not huge fans of the gauntlet, the combination of requiring every essential and hefty difficulty just to get a single 4* cover doesn't seem to appeal.

Most people think along the lines that 4 or so clears of reasonable difficulty a day for a week should be enough to get 25cp and multiple 3*/4* covers, so there is obviously a gap between what the devs want to give out and what the players think is reasonable.

BlackSheep101

djpt05 wrote:

Please tell me 15 rewards on the essential 4* is a bug...

This is the plan for 48 hour subs. Hard nodes yield points the first 15 times you beat them, and every time you win a fight for points you can get a prize.

Not looking forward to the first time I have to go 15/15 to get both cp from a node.

Crowl

ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:

Having just gone through each node once, i can tell you without a doubt this is the worst time i've ever had in this game. I grinded the last wave node trying to get the token, i did it NINE times before the token dropped. My scaling started at 251 and on my last one was at 381, even with Quake champed and boosted at 350 pyros were still doing 5k team damage(and that's with 6k less cause of quake) and soon as i got it my first immediately thought "no way i'm doing anymore".

Sigh, they have managed to mess up the one good thing about those wave nodes then?

fmftint

Tryke wrote:

Gotta love their solution to the wave node problem. Let's put that event token as part of a 15 reward prize pool instead!

cyineedsn

aesthetocyst wrote:

djpt05 wrote:

Please tell me 15 rewards on the essential 4* is a bug...

OP says .... nope!

o In two-day sub-chapters, ... Hard and Required Character missions increase in difficulty 12 times and are worth points the first 15 times they are beaten. o Each mission has rewards equal to the amount of times they can be beaten for points.

.

So in other words, in case we somehow forgot that the gameplay modes and variety have been sorta stale for uh...awhile, here, play some nodes 15x in a row for a few days!

(By variety I mean things like tetris ultron, which I thought was a great change of pace)