Answers to Undergrowth Champion?

knthrak
knthrak Posts: 39
edited June 2016 in MtGPQ General Discussion
UndergrowthChampion.png

For each color, what are some reasonable strategies for dealing with an Undergrowth Champion? Without throwing 4-5 cards and 25+ mana at it?
Some potential answers...
White: Suppression Bonds
Blue: Almost any bounce card. Claustrophobia.
Black: ???
Red: ???
Green: ???
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Comments

  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    Black: Languish, Blightcaster, Demon's Grasp etc
    Red: ignore it and burn opponent asap
    Green: use fatties, preferably with reach, to end it in a few turns.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    I started playing Roil Spout in Gideon for this guy. It does come back the next turn, but then Gideon should have enough creature strength to cope alright with a 4/4 Undergrowth Champion, its the 9/11 Undergrowth Champions that really cause the problems.
  • EDHdad
    EDHdad Posts: 609 Critical Contributor
    Just keep hitting it. It dies just fine.

    Other basic ways to deal with it:

    * Nerf its power (Jace's first ability, Tightening Coils, Weight of the Underworld, etc)

    * Bounce it (Disperse, Harbinger of the Tides, etc)

    * Disable it (Suppression Bonds, Claustrophobia, etc)

    * Steal it (Exert Influence, Turn Against, etc)

    * Set up your own annoying, hard to kill creature loop (Murder Investigation + Knightly Valor, Despoiler of Souls, etc)

    * Fly over it (anything with flying).
  • span_argoman
    span_argoman Posts: 751 Critical Contributor
    Anyone has any suggestions for how to deal with it as Red?
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    span_argoman wrote:
    Anyone has any suggestions for how to deal with it as Red?

    You can't kill it easily, but each turn you steal it, it doesn't block your creatures that turn.
  • zaann85
    zaann85 Posts: 119 Tile Toppler
    Serpentine Spike, Rolling Thunder, Ghirapur Æther Grid, Desolation Twin, Rouge's Passage, and the best answer for red is Alchemist's Vial. Disable, draw a card, then cast a burn spell while it's ability is disabled.
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    zaann85 wrote:
    Serpentine Spike, Rolling Thunder, Ghirapur Æther Grid, Desolation Twin, Rouge's Passage, and the best answer for red is Alchemist's Vial. Disable, draw a card, then cast a burn spell while it's ability is disabled.

    I thought it was bugged and didn't get reduced from spells.
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    majincob wrote:
    zaann85 wrote:
    Serpentine Spike, Rolling Thunder, Ghirapur Æther Grid, Desolation Twin, Rouge's Passage, and the best answer for red is Alchemist's Vial. Disable, draw a card, then cast a burn spell while it's ability is disabled.

    I thought it was bugged and didn't get reduced from spells.

    I'm pretty sure it was like this in the very beginning. I don't quite remember since not many people had this when bfz cards launched. Maybe it was quietly fixed. Attempted to be at least.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Plastic wrote:
    majincob wrote:
    zaann85 wrote:
    Serpentine Spike, Rolling Thunder, Ghirapur Æther Grid, Desolation Twin, Rouge's Passage, and the best answer for red is Alchemist's Vial. Disable, draw a card, then cast a burn spell while it's ability is disabled.

    I thought it was bugged and didn't get reduced from spells.

    I'm pretty sure it was like this in the very beginning. I don't quite remember since not many people had this when bfz cards launched. Maybe it was quietly fixed. Attempted to be at least.

    Undergrowth Champion is unaffected by spells *that destroy it outright*, like Turn to Frog or Scour from Existence.

    I believe that spells that *deal it damage* will cause it to be reduced by -1/-1. Can someone confirm that?
  • Morphis
    Morphis Posts: 975 Critical Contributor
    Last time i checked spells that deal damage reduced his stats.

    I faced him a couple times today(first time I met it in QB).
    in one of those he managed to buff it with mantle of webs.
    Took soooo much effort to kill it.

    I hope I will get it soon enough.
  • soultwist
    soultwist Posts: 325 Mover and Shaker
    I just disabled it and then cast Turn to Frog, opponent got a 1/1 Frog and Champion was unchanged so disabling for that does not work.
  • knthrak
    knthrak Posts: 39
    Does anyone know if the Turn Against + Fiery Conclusion combo can kill Undergrowth Champion, assuming your opponent has two+ creatures and you steal + sac the champion?
  • Plastic
    Plastic Posts: 762 Critical Contributor
    knthrak wrote:
    Does anyone know if the Turn Against + Fiery Conclusion combo can kill Undergrowth Champion, assuming your opponent has two+ creatures and you steal + sac the champion?

    This should not work. Even when you steal it, it retains its ability.
  • nyaa
    nyaa Posts: 19
    shteev wrote:
    Plastic wrote:
    majincob wrote:
    zaann85 wrote:
    Serpentine Spike, Rolling Thunder, Ghirapur Æther Grid, Desolation Twin, Rouge's Passage, and the best answer for red is Alchemist's Vial. Disable, draw a card, then cast a burn spell while it's ability is disabled.

    I thought it was bugged and didn't get reduced from spells.

    I'm pretty sure it was like this in the very beginning. I don't quite remember since not many people had this when bfz cards launched. Maybe it was quietly fixed. Attempted to be at least.

    Undergrowth Champion is unaffected by spells *that destroy it outright*, like Turn to Frog or Scour from Existence.

    I believe that spells that *deal it damage* will cause it to be reduced by -1/-1. Can someone confirm that?
    Actually, I am pretty sure that it is affected by spells that destroy it outright (i.e. it will get -1/-1 and negate that destroy effect). I feel that it should not be able to dodge destroy effect given that in MTGPQ (unlike MtG), blocking creatures can effectively block any amount of creatures and attackers can usually only attack with a maximum of three creatures.

    This is not to mention that the original version doesn't actually dodge destroy effects (I know that MTGPQ is different from MTG but I did present the arguments as to why it can be unfair from a balance perspective).
  • majincob
    majincob Posts: 732 Critical Contributor
    nyaa wrote:
    Actually, I am pretty sure that it is affected by spells that destroy it outright (i.e. it will get -1/-1 and negate that destroy effect). I feel that it should not be able to dodge destroy effect given that in MTGPQ (unlike MtG), blocking creatures can effectively block any amount of creatures and attackers can usually only attack with a maximum of three creatures.

    This is not to mention that the original version doesn't actually dodge destroy effects (I know that MTGPQ is different from MTG but I did present the arguments as to why it can be unfair from a balance perspective).

    That is the expected behavior, we are curious about the actual behavior. (Y'know, cause it is bugged at the moment.)
  • nyaa
    nyaa Posts: 19
    majincob wrote:
    nyaa wrote:
    Actually, I am pretty sure that it is affected by spells that destroy it outright (i.e. it will get -1/-1 and negate that destroy effect). I feel that it should not be able to dodge destroy effect given that in MTGPQ (unlike MtG), blocking creatures can effectively block any amount of creatures and attackers can usually only attack with a maximum of three creatures.

    This is not to mention that the original version doesn't actually dodge destroy effects (I know that MTGPQ is different from MTG but I did present the arguments as to why it can be unfair from a balance perspective).

    That is the expected behavior, we are curious about the actual behavior. (Y'know, cause it is bugged at the moment.)
    I think that is the actual behaviour too. I tried doing that in a QB match (because I didn't read the card properly the first time) and was (unpleasantly) surprised that all it did was -1/-1.
  • DoubleEdge888
    DoubleEdge888 Posts: 2
    I hate this new creature. At least weight of the underworld and demon's grasp cripples this card.
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    Today I disabled Undergrowth with Ajani's first ability, and then cast Sheer Drop at it ('Destroy target creature with Disabled'). Undergrowth Champion was unaffected.

    I am not best pleased by this.
  • PaganMoon
    PaganMoon Posts: 9
    Pain in the Deck just,unnecesarily overgrown icon_e_ugeek.gif
  • shteev
    shteev Posts: 2,031 Chairperson of the Boards
    shteev wrote:
    Today I disabled Undergrowth with Ajani's first ability, and then cast Sheer Drop at it ('Destroy target creature with Disabled'). Undergrowth Champion was unaffected.

    I am not best pleased by this.


    So I think I know what's going on here... disable will deactivate the abilities of a creature so long as it stays in play (I've just cast some spells with a Disabled Managorger Wurm in play and it didn't get +1/+1). However, if the creature dies whilst it's disabled, it's abilities will trigger as if it's not disabled (Earlier today, I destroyed a Disabled Hangarback Walker, and 8 Thopter tokens were generated).

    So I think what's happening is that I make the Undergrowth Champion die from the Sheer Drop, and since it's disabled, it goes on it's merry way to the graveyard, and it thinks to itself, 'Well, I'f I'm dying, then I'm not disabled any more... and if I'm not disabled any more, then I have the ability to not die!'.

    Obviously this is complete **** and needs fixing.


    Does anyone know exactly what happens to Disabled Undergrowth Champion if you
    a) Shoot it with a damage dealing spell for lethal damage
    or
    b) Shoot it with a damage dealing spell for non-lethal damage?

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