Farming championed 2*?

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Nabistay
Nabistay Posts: 146 Tile Toppler
edited February 2017 in MPQ General Discussion
So here is a hypothetical. Maybe someone better with math can help me.
Farming a 2*. Is it possible?
selling a (max championed) 2* gives 65000 ISO and 125 HP [ viewtopic.php?f=13&t=45176 ]

you also earn along the way 17500 ISO, 5 Heroic tokens, 3 3* covers, 250 HP and 5 CP [ http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki/Champion ]

and it costs an initial investment of 69529 ISO [ http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki/Iso_costs ]
[EDIT] plus the 13 covers (=3250 ISO) and 5k to champion
[EDIT 2] Plus the fact you are not selling the 50 covers for 250 ISO each (12,500)
69529+3250+5000+12500 = 90,279

So after an initial investment and a lot of covers earned:
90,279 ISO -> 82,500 + 375 HP + 5 Heroic + 3 3* + 5 CP

NET:
-7,779 ISO, 375 HP, 5 HT (=1,250 ISO), 3 3*, and 5 CP


[EDIT] added table of 2* -> 4* for convenience:

Captain America -> Captain America -> Captain America
Daken -> Daken -> X-23
Human Torch -> Human Torch -> The Thing
Thor -> Thor -> Red Hulk
Wolverine -> Wolverine-> X-Force Wolverine
Bagman -> Spider-Man -> Miles Morales
Ms. Marvel -> Captain Marvel -> The Thing
Ares -> Ragnarok -> X-23
Bullseye -> Bullseye -> Kingpin
Hawkeye -> Iron Man 40 -> Hulkbuster
Moonstone -> Hulk -> 'TA' Hulk
OBW -> GSBW -> Nick Fury
Storm -> Storm -> Thor GoT
Magneto -> Magneto -> Professor X


[EDIT 2] So from a general ISO standpoint, it isn't worth it. it basically allows you to convert

7.7k ISO 8 -> 375 HP, 5 HT, 3 3*, and 5 CP

Which could be worth it to the right person, or for the right rewards
«13

Comments

  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    Options
    If you go through the work of getting 63 covers you now have the choice of selecting:

    Option A)
    7,971 ISO +
    5 Heroic Covers +
    3 predetermined 3* covers +
    375 HC +
    5CP

    or

    Option B)
    15,750 ISO

    Option A is championing and selling, Option B is just selling the covers.



    Notes on ISO cost for Option A:
    -69529 cost to train
    -5000 cost to champion
    +17500 rewards
    +65000 sale price
    +7971 net
  • Gmax101
    Gmax101 Posts: 182 Tile Toppler
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    I think that for most 2* it probably isn't worth doing it...

    but as some one else pointed out... if there is a particular 2 >> 3 >> 4 reward structure you like, then it might be worth it for that 2*

    Personally I love the whole champ level rewards, so will probably do it for a couple of them...
  • Nabistay
    Nabistay Posts: 146 Tile Toppler
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    I was discussing this with a friend, and he pointed out the covers that are to max cover it are an opportunity cost as well of 3250 ISO (13 covers, which would have given 250 iso each)

    I will edit to reflect this, and the 5k championing cost
  • veny
    veny Posts: 834 Critical Contributor
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    Nabistay wrote:
    So here is a hypothetical. Maybe someone better with math can help me.
    Farming a 2*. Is it possible?
    selling a (max championed) 2* gives 65000 ISO and 125 HP [ viewtopic.php?f=13&t=45176 ]

    you also earn along the way 17500 ISO, 5 Heroic tokens, 3 3* covers, 250 HP and 5 CP [ http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki/Champion ]

    and it costs an initial investment of 69529 ISO [ http://marvelpuzzlequest.wikia.com/wiki/Iso_costs ]


    So after an initial investment and a lot of covers earned:
    69,529 ISO -> 82,500 + 375 HP + 5 Heroic + 3 3* + 5 CP

    A very, very long farm.. but reliable?

    WHERE DID I GO WRONG
    Wrong. Try this:
    1) 13 covers to max out 2* hero (3250 ISO lost)
    2) 69529 ISO lost with leveling
    3) 50 covers used to promote champion (17 500 ISO lost)
    4) 5000 ISO lost as promote price.

    So, its approx 95 000 iso spend X 82 000 ISO gained (plus tokens, HPs, CPs).
    So no, you cant farm ISO this way. BUT, question is how valuable HPs are for you...
  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    MissChinch wrote:
    Notes on ISO cost for Option A:
    -69529 cost to train
    -5000 cost to champion
    +17500 rewards
    +65000 sale price
    +7971 net


    You have to deduct iso you are not getting by not selling 63 covers. This then comes out to -7779 Iso. If you were to sell your 3* champ rewards covers, and your tokens gave you more 2* that you then sold, youre looking at a net loss of 5029 iso for selling your 2* champion.

    5029 Iso vs some hp and cp is the decision to make.
  • Codex
    Codex Posts: 229 Tile Toppler
    Options
    MissChinch wrote:

    Notes on ISO cost for Option A:
    -69529 cost to train
    -5000 cost to champion
    +17500 rewards
    +65000 sale price
    +7971 net

    You are forgetting there is a cost for those 63 covers which is 15750.

    Therefore it is a net loss of 7779
  • Nabistay
    Nabistay Posts: 146 Tile Toppler
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    Good catch, again. I added the 13 initial covers, but the 50 covers would directly translate to ISO.. so I will add that in..
  • We_are_Venom
    We_are_Venom Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
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    One thing I'd like to add... If you have a corresponding 3* championed, there cover you get that also gives a reward should be factored as well. I'm trying to figure out how to get all 2* and 3* to make a income factory. My 4* roster would have to be limited, but in starting to think it should be anyway. How many do I really want to level? Justa matter of who to trim.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    You are forgetting there is a cost for those 63 covers which is 15750.

    Therefore it is a net loss of 7779

    No, when you give two options you don't put opportunity cost.
    Read what I wrote, you are incorrect in saying championing "costs" you the iso you missed out on, you don't need to pay that, that's an opportunity cost you lose out on hence the choice between the two options I gave:
    Option A)
    7,971 ISO +
    5 Heroic Covers +
    3 predetermined 3* covers +
    375 HC +
    5CP

    or

    Option B)
    15,750 ISO

    Theres a difference in iso you get, putting it in as a cost under option A would be as silly as putting the 8 covers, 370HC and 2 CP you miss out on as a cost of selling the covers. Its an opportunity cost, not an actual cost, you don't get charged covers, HC and CP when selling, just like you don't pony up additional iso when you elect to use a cover to level a champ. Confusing these two will lead to double counting in comparisons and generally muddy the waters.
  • westnyy2
    westnyy2 Posts: 194 Tile Toppler
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    You can argue the math all day long but it really doesn't come down to 375 hp and 5 cp for 8k or whatever. Take a look at your 3 star status. We all got to the first 4 star cover really quickly but to get the next it is level 223 I believe. I am active in all facets of the game and have 1 3 star at 222 but the rest are roughly in the 190 - 205 area. The champion feature has been around for about 6 months now.

    Farming 2's is absolutely worth it and I am willing to bet if you take 2 identical rosters now and have 1 farm and one not farm that the farmer will have a superior roster in 6 months time. You will eventually hit something in the tokens and the extra 3 levels to those 3's will add up quick which should give an advantage in PVP and PVE which leads to more rewards, etc. At the very least it gives me something to do while hoarding 350k iso to level my next 4.
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Nice assessment. Thanks for working it up!

    I was wondering whether I should dump one of my junk 1* to progress a duplicate 2* and sell it off. Given the HP and potential one of the heroics could be a winner, it might actually wind up Iso+. But it would permanently (until you end the cycle) tie up ~100k Iso as an investment vehicle with little chance of significant return. I'm guessing most will prefer to spend that on 4* progression for immediate in-game benefit.

    So - nice try, D3! But no cigar.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    You have to deduct iso you are not getting by not selling 63 covers. This then comes out to -7779 Iso. If you were to sell your 3* champ rewards covers, and your tokens gave you more 2* that you then sold, youre looking at a net loss of 5029 iso for selling your 2* champion.

    5029 Iso vs some hp and cp is the decision to make.

    Another confusion between cost and opportunity cost, if you insist on making it, then factor in the "cost" of just selling your 63 2* covers as heroic covers, predetermined 3* covers, HC and CP... Its fine to call it out as an opportunity cost if you're detailing just a single option, but not when giving two scenarios.

    Likewise converting the value of the covers in the champion scenario into ISO is misleading, you can do that in the scenario where you sell all covers because you're building the scenario based on selling the covers, however there are plenty of times where covers are of more value to the player than the iso they sell for (I'd gladly pay 1000 iso for 4* covers and consider it a great deal)
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
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    If you also take into account the fact that the 3* cover earned from champing 2* will give iso/hp/cp rewards then it's also negating the initial cost of levelling the 2*
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
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    If you also take into account the fact that the 3* cover earned from champing 2* will give iso/hp/cp rewards then it's also negating the initial cost of levelling the 2*

    Agreed, that's why I think its only fair to convert covers to ISO sale price in the one specific scenario that is build around the selling of them... in all other cases theres a good chance the player will value a cover more than the iso sale price, so converting for comparison purposes is misleading.
  • Ruinate
    Ruinate Posts: 528 Critical Contributor
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    MissChinch wrote:
    You have to deduct iso you are not getting by not selling 63 covers. This then comes out to -7779 Iso. If you were to sell your 3* champ rewards covers, and your tokens gave you more 2* that you then sold, youre looking at a net loss of 5029 iso for selling your 2* champion.

    5029 Iso vs some hp and cp is the decision to make.

    Another confusion between cost and opportunity cost, if you insist on making it, then factor in the "cost" of just selling your 63 2* covers as heroic covers, predetermined 3* covers, HC and CP... Its fine to call it out as an opportunity cost if you're detailing just a single option, but not when giving two scenarios.

    Likewise converting the value of the covers in the champion scenario into ISO is misleading, you can do that in the scenario where you sell all covers because you're building the scenario based on selling the covers, however there are plenty of times where covers are of more value to the player than the iso they sell for (I'd gladly pay 1000 iso for 4* covers and consider it a great deal)


    There is no confusion. We both have the same numbers. 15750 - 7971 = 7779. I simplified it for you.

    Option A - 3 Covers, 5 Tokens, 5CP, 375HP

    Option B - 7779 iso.


    What was misleading (2 people with the same numbers tried to correct you) was your little note about about option A saying it was a net gain of 7971.
  • MissChinch
    MissChinch Posts: 509 Critical Contributor
    Options
    There is no confusion. We both have the same numbers. 15750 - 7971 = 7779. I simplified it for you.

    Option A - 3 Covers, 5 Tokens, 5CP, 375HP

    Option B - 7779 iso.

    That's not what you get when you start with the 63 covers, as I specifically stated in the assumption... you're missing iso on both sides. I agree its an easier comparison.
    What was misleading (2 people with the same numbers tried to correct you) was your little note about about option A saying it was a net gain of 7971.

    The championing scenario has an exact net gain of 7971, what I have is correct. The notes were put in because the OP had missed some iso in their description in that scenario (hence my desire to be completely accurate with the costs and plain with the assumptions because this has been stated with the wrong numbers many times throughout the forums.)
  • OneLastGambit
    OneLastGambit Posts: 1,963 Chairperson of the Boards
    edited June 2016
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    MissChinch wrote:
    If you also take into account the fact that the 3* cover earned from champing 2* will give iso/hp/cp rewards then it's also negating the initial cost of levelling the 2*

    Agreed, that's why I think its only fair to convert covers to ISO sale price in the one specific scenario that is build around the selling of them... in all other cases theres a good chance the player will value a cover more than the iso sale price, so converting for comparison purposes is misleading.


    For example if I build and champ 2hor again the 2* covers which levelled up to get those 3* covers wouldnt be worth 250iso a piece as a sale price.

    They would be worth 500 iso, 1k iso and a purple rulk. Significantly better than the above stated 250 price of the 2* cover.

    Its a false economy to view every 2* cover as 250iso.

    Edit: just to clarify I was agreeing with you miss cinch
  • Quebbster
    Quebbster Posts: 8,070 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm tempted to farm Bagman covers at least. Getting a Legendary token out of it is easily worth 8K ISO.
  • We_are_Venom
    We_are_Venom Posts: 308 Mover and Shaker
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    Glad I took financial accounting, it's really coming in handy keeping up with this topic .
  • Orion
    Orion Posts: 1,295 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I see it as a loan of 65k ISO that you eventually pay back with 7779 ISO interest. The extra stuff is just gravy, really.

    There are plenty of times where a quick infusion of ISO is absolutely worth it. You can sell off a few to champ that 4* whose cover is about to expire. Or bump him up to a level where you can beat a 4* DDQ.

    I think it's worth it. So much so that I've already sold off 6 2* champs already today. Just don't sell so many that you can't do the 2* DDQ nodes.

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