*** The Hood (Classic) ***

Unknown

Phaserhawk wrote:

Does no one realize that if you properly place the pistols you can generate a massive cascade for yourself, setting you up to obliterate the AI on the next turn? The poll is very skewed as it does not offer views of a diferent opinion other than yours. I truly believe that this was done for one purpose, and that is that charged tiles are going to be a new character feature and not just with 4* Thor, and you laying down a well placed pistols that creates a cascade that results in massive AP due to chraged tiles woudl be insane, and if this is truly the case as I believe, then ending the turn is fair considering the next turn is death.

Unless they release a new, 3* character with charged tiles, they're an irrelevant feature for me for probably the next six months. It's going to be ages before I have a usable 4* Thor, so her features don't enter into the equation for me. And you're more likely to set up a good match for the AI than yourself if yellow ends the turn.

NorthernPolarity

Phaserhawk wrote:

Does no one realize that if you properly place the pistols you can generate a massive cascade for yourself, setting you up to obliterate the AI on the next turn? The poll is very skewed as it does not offer views of a diferent opinion other than yours. I truly believe that this was done for one purpose, and that is that charged tiles are going to be a new character feature and not just with 4* Thor, and you laying down a well placed pistols that creates a cascade that results in massive AP due to chraged tiles woudl be insane, and if this is truly the case as I believe, then ending the turn is fair considering the next turn is death.

I find it unlikely that you get "massive" cascades out of the ability: average case you're probably getting 2 match-3s if you're good at aiming your pistols, Also it costs freaking 15AP! That's in the same league as whales, RotP, etc, and I don't think 5k damage + 6, essentially random AP if you're good is at all comparable to those skills, which means that not ending the turn seems justified.

Unknown

It seems like the changes to Twin Pistol is a way to push players to level up the Hood since he's often used on defense so the nuke could help with defense wins. Being maxed means he'll tank more colors which can whittle him down faster to require health pack more often. If you try to pair him with characters that can tank some of his colors, active skills will conflict on defense and it's hard to arrange in the 2+ featured PVP format. I also think that a Hood will be appearing more in future PVE storylines so Twin Pistols will be pissing us off when he's overscaled or pops up as a Team-Up.

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

ZeiramMR wrote:

I do feel that Hood's yellow was over-nerfed, but I believe their rationale for the "ends turn" has more to do with it being a yellow power than it being "weaker" than other strong powers being mentioned. Look at the three other good Yellow active powers on Rare characters:

Thor - Max Level: Deals 2486 damage and Converts 9 tiles to green for 12 AP.
Black Panther - Max Level: 3x Strength 175 Strike tiles, 260 with Team-Up AP for 9 AP.
Sentry - Will become Max Level: Takes 1724 for 571 strike tile for 8 AP.

Those seem much more on a comparable level to Hood's power to me. Are there any other notable Yellow active powers at that rarity level worth mentioning? Only other one I could consider was Magneto but that's hard to gauge since it is a defensive power. Maybe in 4-star land, but I haven't seen enough of those in use to compare even if I did think those were a fair comparison.

Do any of those have the best passive in the entire game?

Again, Give Dino Aggressive Recon and he becomes the best enabler in the game.

Characters are more than isolated skills.

Then, by your logic, no Nerf is necessary because his health is so low. You know, since characters are more than isolated skills.

GuntherBlobel

KevinMark wrote:

Remove the end turn from 5 yellow covers. Btw, if anyone didn't realize, even if you got a 5-match during the cascade your turn still ends.

Are you sure that is true? I seem to remember getting a random crit after Supernova. It had a weird buggy effect, where I was given the opportunity to use another power, but then the turn moved on, iirc.

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

KevinMark wrote:

Remove the end turn from 5 yellow covers. Btw, if anyone didn't realize, even if you got a 5-match during the cascade your turn still ends.

Are you sure that is true? I seem to remember getting a random crit after Supernova. It had a weird buggy effect, where I was given the opportunity to use another power, but then the turn moved on, iirc.

I'm sure. I had this happen when I had 4 yellow Hood covers and it was just recently. It force-ends your turn.

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

Does no one realize that if you properly place the pistols you can generate a massive cascade for yourself, setting you up to obliterate the AI on the next turn? The poll is very skewed as it does not offer views of a diferent opinion other than yours. I truly believe that this was done for one purpose, and that is that charged tiles are going to be a new character feature and not just with 4* Thor, and you laying down a well placed pistols that creates a cascade that results in massive AP due to chraged tiles woudl be insane, and if this is truly the case as I believe, then ending the turn is fair considering the next turn is death.

I find it unlikely that you get "massive" cascades out of the ability: average case you're probably getting 2 match-3s if you're good at aiming your pistols, Also it costs freaking 15AP! That's in the same league as whales, RotP, etc, and I don't think 5k damage + 6, essentially random AP if you're good is at all comparable to those skills, which means that not ending the turn seems justified.

I've been trying to use TP a lot recently and I don't recall seeing cascades. Only on Muscle+Hood PvE node and that's because Hood was able to use it more than 3 times in a game thanks to yellow generators.

Unknown

scottee wrote:

Just checked in on this thread. I can't believe people are still complaining about the Hood changes. I would run a 0/5/0 Hood if I could level him to 166, because DA is that good. That's the only reason to run him. It's arguably the strongest ability in the game. He could literally have one power and still be top tier.

People are not complaining about that it totally nerfs Hood. He will be fine. People are complaining about two things:

1. The said they were going to utilized the token rotation to work on people out of the spotlight. The Hood has been featured more than once since the first rotation was implemented (and he wasn't in the rotated out list). If this was announced prior to those events, the people that don't Sentry Bomb and liked the old Twin Pistols, would have been able to respec to 355, which is in my opinion the sensible build, rather then sell them for Iso.

2. People don't know if the new version really makes a lot of sense. Ending the turn, after AP gain, made sense. Taking away the ability to remove the end of turn restriction, while also taking away the AP gain, doesn't make a lot of sense. No one plays the hood to do damage, he is support. Swapping the AP gain for a forced end of turn and decent to good single target damage, isn't balancing the scales of the power, and really just means, don't bother using the power at all, unless you need to shake the board or remove specific tiles which works fine with one cover.

People would love more varied build options, not less. Some people liked 355 some liked 553, now really 355 is the only one that should be fielded. This doesn't change the Hood from being the Hood, it just takes away a viable build, that many enjoyed (that were not Sentry Bombers).

NorthernPolarity

GuiltTrip wrote:

scottee wrote:

Just checked in on this thread. I can't believe people are still complaining about the Hood changes. I would run a 0/5/0 Hood if I could level him to 166, because DA is that good. That's the only reason to run him. It's arguably the strongest ability in the game. He could literally have one power and still be top tier.

People are not complaining about that it totally nerfs Hood. He will be fine. People are complaining about two things:

1. The said they were going to utilized the token rotation to work on people out of the spotlight. The Hood has been featured more than once since the first rotation was implemented (and he wasn't in the rotated out list). If this was announced prior to those events, the people that don't Sentry Bomb and liked the old Twin Pistols, would have been able to respec to 355, which is in my opinion the sensible build, rather then sell them for Iso.

2. People don't know if the new version really makes a lot of sense. Ending the turn, after AP gain, made sense. Taking away the ability to remove the end of turn restriction, while also taking away the AP gain, doesn't make a lot of sense. No one plays the hood to do damage, he is support. Swapping the AP gain for a forced end of turn and decent to good single target damage, isn't balancing the scales of the power, and really just means, don't bother using the power at all.

People would love more varied build options, not less. Some people liked 355 some liked 553, now really 355 is the only one that should be fielded. This doesn't change the Hood from being the Hood, it just takes away a viable build, that many enjoyed (that were not Sentry Bombers).

To be fair 5/5/3 is going to be the only Hood build that is going to be fielded. 3->5 black doesn't do anything outside of Sentry and IM40 5/5/1 recharge, which is relatively niche. Even though pistols isn't the greatest, the 2.5k->5k damage increase from 3->5 yellow is still gonna matter more than the 300 extra damage from intimidation in most games: they need to change intimidates cover progression if they want varied builds, since it's still either gonna be 3/5/5 for sentry, 5/5/3 for anyone else. I'm just miffed that the Pistols change doesn't make any sense.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

To be fair 5/5/3 is going to be the only Hood build that is going to be fielded. 3->5 black is worthless post sentry nerf, since the only time you get 3+ cd tiles is on IM40 5/5/1 recharge, which is a pretty niche scenario. Even though pistols isn't the greatest, the 2.5k->5k damage increase from 3->5 yellow is still gonna matter more than the 300 extra damage from intimidation in most games: they need to change intimidates cover progression if they want varied builds, since it's still either gonna be 3/5/5 for sentry, 5/5/3 for anyone else. I'm just miffed that the Pistols change doesn't make any sense.

Hmmm, maybe you are right. I didn't go out and look at the 3->5 black difference, but I certainly don't need damage for Yellow, as if I was looking for damage from Yellow, I wouldn't be using Twin Pistols. I guess the same could be said with Black, and the new overlord X-Force has Black covered. Still Black at 5 could make the new Sentry playable, just not over powered. What does 5 Yellow really do for you?

NorthernPolarity

GuiltTrip wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

To be fair 5/5/3 is going to be the only Hood build that is going to be fielded. 3->5 black is worthless post sentry nerf, since the only time you get 3+ cd tiles is on IM40 5/5/1 recharge, which is a pretty niche scenario. Even though pistols isn't the greatest, the 2.5k->5k damage increase from 3->5 yellow is still gonna matter more than the 300 extra damage from intimidation in most games: they need to change intimidates cover progression if they want varied builds, since it's still either gonna be 3/5/5 for sentry, 5/5/3 for anyone else. I'm just miffed that the Pistols change doesn't make any sense.

Hmmm, maybe you are right. I didn't go out and look at the 3->5 black difference, but I certainly don't need damage for Yellow, as if I was looking for damage from Yellow, I wouldn't be using Twin Pistols. I guess the same could be said with Black, and the new overlord X-Force has Black covered. Still Black at 5 could make the new Sentry playable, just not over powered. What does 5 Yellow really do for you?

I mean, if you're playing X-Force and surgical hits yellow, you're gonna be pretty glad when you can pistols for 5k damage instead of 2.5k damage. I also think that speccing a character specifically for enabling Sentry is kind of a waste when it halfs the damage of another ability.

Unknown

In this thread:

The .5% of the MPQ player base that are able to use Hood to any great effect are PISSED and are not going to take this anymore!

But then:

They still keep playing! And the world keeps on spinning.

Next week:

The 99.5% of the player-base not represented on the forums or Facebook continues to NOT GIVE A TINYKITTY about the changes made and keep pumping money into the game!

Thrills abound.

NorthernPolarity

RefinedBean wrote:

In this thread:

The .5% of the MPQ player base that are able to use Hood to any great effect are PISSED and are not going to take this anymore!

But then:

They still keep playing! And the world keeps on spinning.

Next week:

The 99.5% of the player-base not represented on the forums or Facebook continues to NOT GIVE A TINYKITTY about the changes made and keep pumping money into the game!

Thrills abound.

Sorry if we actually care about the design of the character's abilities and speak up when things don't make sense. Hell, we aren't even saying that this is a huge nerf or that the Hood is now underpowered, we're just saying that the overnerf doesn't make sense from a design standpoint. It's not like you're dealing with people that think that the C. Mags / Spidey nerf were completely unjustified and that the game was fine with a character that could stunlock the enemy team off of 10 blue AP, or that Sentry is overnerfed and is now below bottom tier.

dr tinykittylove

GuiltTrip wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

To be fair 5/5/3 is going to be the only Hood build that is going to be fielded. 3->5 black is worthless post sentry nerf, since the only time you get 3+ cd tiles is on IM40 5/5/1 recharge, which is a pretty niche scenario. Even though pistols isn't the greatest, the 2.5k->5k damage increase from 3->5 yellow is still gonna matter more than the 300 extra damage from intimidation in most games: they need to change intimidates cover progression if they want varied builds, since it's still either gonna be 3/5/5 for sentry, 5/5/3 for anyone else. I'm just miffed that the Pistols change doesn't make any sense.

Hmmm, maybe you are right. I didn't go out and look at the 3->5 black difference, but I certainly don't need damage for Yellow, as if I was looking for damage from Yellow, I wouldn't be using Twin Pistols. I guess the same could be said with Black, and the new overlord X-Force has Black covered. Still Black at 5 could make the new Sentry playable, just not over powered. What does 5 Yellow really do for you?

It would probably be more useful than the old TP for me, in all honesty, as much as I enjoy the current incarnation. I have an unfortunate tendency to go into matches with the walking wounded to save health packs, and sometimes the damage dealers get taken out before they can do their job. That kind of damage on five covers might suffice to finish off a mildly injured tank, instead of me having to dice around trying to intimidate/pistol LCap to death while desperately denying him red and match4 setups. x_x

Still don't want poor squishy Hood to end the turn though. He'd always be the first man down if so, given the ai's propensity to unloading all the ap and cascades on squishies.

Unknown

GuiltTrip wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

To be fair 5/5/3 is going to be the only Hood build that is going to be fielded. 3->5 black is worthless post sentry nerf, since the only time you get 3+ cd tiles is on IM40 5/5/1 recharge, which is a pretty niche scenario. Even though pistols isn't the greatest, the 2.5k->5k damage increase from 3->5 yellow is still gonna matter more than the 300 extra damage from intimidation in most games: they need to change intimidates cover progression if they want varied builds, since it's still either gonna be 3/5/5 for sentry, 5/5/3 for anyone else. I'm just miffed that the Pistols change doesn't make any sense.

Hmmm, maybe you are right. I didn't go out and look at the 3->5 black difference, but I certainly don't need damage for Yellow, as if I was looking for damage from Yellow, I wouldn't be using Twin Pistols. I guess the same could be said with Black, and the new overlord X-Force has Black covered. Still Black at 5 could make the new Sentry playable, just not over powered. What does 5 Yellow really do for you?

5 Yellow is a lot better when you use hood with Xforce than the 355 build offered. Granted maybe gathering extra colors was better but 5k vs 1k damage for a slightly slow combo is a big improvement

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I mean, if you're playing X-Force and surgical hits yellow, you're gonna be pretty glad when you can pistols for 5k damage instead of 2.5k damage. I also think that speccing a character specifically for enabling Sentry is kind of a waste when it halfs the damage of another ability.

This is again true, if I was planning on using X-Force all the time (which I guess I need to start considering now that I almost have him covered). When it comes down to it, I guess I just REALLY don't like dropping poor little old hood to the front of the line, to get hammered on the next turn.

There is a reason mine is at 110, so that Black Panther can take bullets for him, when we do get the Hood featured PvP events. In the end, it is their game and they need to do what they think is best for it, and as a player it is my role to adjust or move on.

NorthernPolarity

GuiltTrip wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

I mean, if you're playing X-Force and surgical hits yellow, you're gonna be pretty glad when you can pistols for 5k damage instead of 2.5k damage. I also think that speccing a character specifically for enabling Sentry is kind of a waste when it halfs the damage of another ability.

This is again true, if I was planning on using X-Force all the time (which I guess I need to start considering now that I almost have him covered). When it comes down to it, I guess I just REALLY don't like dropping poor little old hood to the front of the line, to get hammered on the next turn.

There is a reason mine is at 110, so that Black Panther can take bullets for him, when we do get the Hood featured PvP events. In the end, it is their game and they need to do what they think is best for it, and as a player it is my role to adjust or move on.

Yeah, but when a change is especially egregious, I'd like to think that the developers can be swayed if we bombard them with logic and propose a reasonable fix, of which changing "ending the turn" to "not ending the turn" seems more than reasonable and trivial to implement.

Unknown

To reiterate The Hood who has one of the lowest health levels in three star land now has a power that causes pretty good damage. But unless that damage ends the match leaves a support character to take a possible match-4 or -5 damage.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

Sorry if we actually care about the design of the character's abilities and speak up when things don't make sense. Hell, we aren't even saying that this is a huge nerf or that the Hood is now underpowered, we're just saying that the overnerf doesn't make sense from a design standpoint. It's not like you're dealing with people that think that the C. Mags / Spidey nerf were completely unjustified and that the game was fine with a character that could stunlock the enemy team off of 10 blue AP, or that Sentry is overnerfed and is now below bottom tier.

Hey man, you care about what you want to care about. I was just trying to poke some fun over the fact that we have a 15-page discussion on something pretty innocuous. The only reason so many people are commenting on Hood's nerf is because so many of us here use him because we know his Blue is a bit OP and helps with stuff like sentry-bombing.

I didn't mean to harsh the mellow. It just gives me a giggle when a minor nerf to a character like Hood garners 15 pages of discussion, but something like "We haven't seen new PVE content in over half a year" gets a few pages of mainly one word answers.

GrumpySmurf1002

RefinedBean wrote:

I didn't mean to harsh the mellow. It just gives me a giggle when a minor nerf to a character like Hood garners 15 pages of discussion, but something like "We haven't seen new PVE content in over half a year" gets a few pages of mainly one word answers.

Gauntlet was September, and Deadpool is more recently than 6 months.

Speaking personally, character design is way more interesting anyway. Another PvE like Deadpool, with the same basic mechanic and different words is nice for about 30 seconds. Then it's just same ol' same ol. (although at least Deadpool's wasn't "lets fight Venom and Ares and OMG STOP IT WITH THESE VILLIANS")

wymtime

Phaserhawk wrote:

Does no one realize that if you properly place the pistols you can generate a massive cascade for yourself, setting you up to obliterate the AI on the next turn? The poll is very skewed as it does not offer views of a diferent opinion other than yours. I truly believe that this was done for one purpose, and that is that charged tiles are going to be a new character feature and not just with 4* Thor, and you laying down a well placed pistols that creates a cascade that results in massive AP due to chraged tiles woudl be insane, and if this is truly the case as I believe, then ending the turn is fair considering the next turn is death.

I hope charge tiles will become a bigger part of the game. It is a new mechanic that can make characters very usefull. The problem with your idea that 2 twin pistols can create a cascade that results in massive AP feels off. Max you are setting up 2 March 3's that may or may not be charged and would most likely be 2 different colors. If there is a that charages tiles the bigger issue will be pairing them with LThor. Thunder strike causes massive amounts of board shake up and AP generation, so if Green is charged you could get off 2 COTS with 1 thunderstrike. That would be broken and game changing but they are not changing 3* Thor.
Twin pistols will be fine doing 5k damage and becuase it costs 15 AP will be used late in the game. I see they wanted to be proactive with the charge tiles to switch twin pistols for AP generation to damage, and they probably were thinking that aftif Hood is with a yellow generating goon when the player gets hit for 5k damage it should end the turn. I think they were thinking of PVE more so than PVP since twin pistols is for the most part not used in PVP. As he is buffed now even when I am boosting I am not using twin pistols becuase I usually have a better yellow available.