*** The Hood (Classic) ***

Unknown

simonsez wrote:

stephen43084 wrote:

So now we're nerfing abilities on the possibility that one of the AI's strongest colors will be yellow and that said character will have the highest color strength on the AI's team and be in the correct order that surgical strike will get yellow AP?

The ability costs 15 AP and was not ever overused by anyone. How many times have you played with Hood? How many times (including PVE) do you actually use his yellow? How many times has the AI used it on you (not counting miracle cascades or with goons feeding yellow)?

Why are you getting aggravated at me, as if I'm the one who did the nerfing?

Surgical Strike doesn't necessarily need the enemy strongest color to be yellow to lead to Twin Pistols. The resulting cascade can help get you there too. As for how many times I've played with Hood, I'd say way more than you, by the sound of it. And no, any Sentry-bombing you've done with Hood isn't relevant to a Twin Pistols discussion. And what the AI does with Hood is even less relevant. The AI resembles intelligent play only by coincidence. I can't believe you even went there.

And yes, I've already said earlier that it makes absolutely no sense for Twin Pistols to end the turn. So if you need to keep ranting about that, please do, but don't quote unrelated comments of mine in the next post where you decide to do so.

You're right, it does seem aimed at you...lol. That's what I get for posting and chatting in two Line chat rooms and playing QuizUp at the same time. My apologies, did not mean to aim or imply it had anything to do with you.

Also, after chatting with NP about it, I'm fine with the change.

In fact, I've realized the worst thing to do is to give feedback.

Example 1: People complained about Juggs Heoric PVE. Result - we got pretty much the worst roster possbile for that event.

Example 2: People complain about the new MMR. Result - they change it the last ten hours, really sticking it to those that played the experimental MMR in good faith (per their request).

Example 3: Using their sickic (MPQ version of psychic) powers, they knew people would complain about sentry nerf. Result - they nerf Hood in advance.

*Sigh* obviously it does not pay to give honest feedback. Therefore, before they nerf health packs from 5 to 3....

The game is great. Developers are truly gods among mortals. We are not worthy of their great brilliance. Everything is perfect the way it is. Things could not be better. Y'all deserve a standing ovation (that will have to come from someone not too lazy to do a meme).

Unknown

Hood Yellow went from: only playable with 5 covers to completely unplayable.

Sentry powers just dipped a bit in power. +1 count down for world rupture doesn't even seem that bad. At least all of his powers are still good.

over_clocked

dkffiv wrote:

I think I've come up with a better way to balance the Hood.

For everyone: charged tiles only proc if they are matched. This alleviates problems with Hood / Storm/ Xforce.

Hood yellow: No change

Hood black:
5 covers only affects 4 tiles instead of all, but procs twice. Picks up to 4 random CD tiles, reduces by 1, then picks another 4 (could be the same ones) and reduces by 1 again. Would double tap with Human Torch green and synergize with Psylocke/IM40/CapAm/ and the new Sentry nerf.

There is currently almost no incentive to put 5 into black other than sentry bombing.

Hood blue:
One option is to leave it mostly as is but change 4 covers to affect black and 5 to affect yellow (split the 5 cover bonus and remove the 9 tile requirement perk and leave it at 10). At 10 it doesn't proc that often and will reduce the strength quite a bit.

The other option is to leave the cover bonuses as is but rather than occurring at the beginning of the turn passively, it only happens when you match the tiles (like espionage). It does not occur all the time like espionage, only when there are 9 or more of that color when making your match. If this is severely underpowered then perhaps lower the number of tiles required to 8.

*Now that I think about it the second option is probably best. When the computer has Hood, I tend to get screwed when there is a lot of the color that I need but its all spread out on the board and unmatchable, resulting in me losing all my AP without being able to do anything about it. As a player I could target specific colors that the AI has a ton of to try to reduce the odds of them getting an ability off.

Nice propositions except Dormammu's Aid should be left as is imo. By the way it currently already requires 10 or more tiles. It never procs with just 9 tiles. At 9, it would be crazy even in my opinion, and I'm very fond of the skill.

Unknown

das boot wrote:

Hood Yellow went from: only playable with 5 covers to completely unplayable.

I don't understand this "completely unplayable" sentiment. Don't get me wrong, I prefer that it had remained the same, and I would classify it as a nerf, but "completely unplayable" is an overstatement. I know it's a slippery slope to compare powers, but if I told you that GSBWs pistol was going to be buffed to clear an additional six tiles and do over 5,000 damage, but it would end turn, most would be pretty happy. Also, I know it's more expensive, but we're talking about a bigger one hit nuke with more tiles cleared than Xforce green, on a SUPPORT character. Finally, let's not downplay the difference between 15 and 18. There IS a difference. I was around for the old nerf castrations. This isn't even close to that. I think the old TP is better, but let's not go overboard.

As a side note, with the general consensus that this is to preempt a Thorina exploit, what should we expect with other tile destroying AP generators, specifically the Storms and MnMags?

CrookedKnight

Three things about this change make it particularly bad for Hood:

1) As a pure damage ability, Twin Pistols deals 380.4 damage per AP. The other damage-dealing power that ends the turn is Supernova, which clocks in at 1377 damage per AP, spread over the whole enemy team. That is a level of power that justifies the lack of a follow-up move. 5700-ish to one target is not.

2) Hood is the squishiest squishy in land. Since a turn-ending power leaves its caster in front for the enemy's response, that means he's going to be in line for some punishment after TP resolves.

3) TP is a board shaking power. A board shaking power that ends the turn leave the AI in position to take whatever match-5 opportunity results from the shakeup. And since Hood's stuck in front, guess which squishy is eating that critical and cascade?

The only value I see in the post-nerf TP is as a kill shot, and it's a very expensive one.

GrumpySmurf1002

jralbino wrote:

As a side note, with the general consensus that this is to preempt a Thorina exploit, what should we expect with other tile destroying AP generators, specifically the Storms and MnMags?

Storms generates off green, so there's no immediate need to worry about infinite green generation.
MnMags has a random placement of the tile, so it will limit the ability to spam it, but there will stlil be some potential there. He's also a 2*, so you're not going to see FourThor-MnMags combos much aside from PvE.

NorthernPolarity

GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:

jralbino wrote:

As a side note, with the general consensus that this is to preempt a Thorina exploit, what should we expect with other tile destroying AP generators, specifically the Storms and MnMags?

Storms generates off green, so there's no immediate need to worry about infinite green generation.
MnMags has a random placement of the tile, so it will limit the ability to spam it, but there will stlil be some potential there. He's also a 2*, so you're not going to see FourThor-MnMags combos much aside from PvE.

Random tile destruction is too inconsistent to really be an issue with charged tiles.

Wonko33

Is there always a fire sale on the nerfed character? Because I definitely don't need that second Hood I was working on.

Unknown

Wonko33 wrote:

Is there always a fire sale on the nerfed character? Because I definitely don't need that second Hood I was working on.

Definitely.

Unknown

I'm torn over this.

I've been shifting my Hood between 455 and 544 too often. I'd have another level on my Thor if I hadn't. First, I had Twin Pistols not ending the turn, which was a game-winner at times. Then, I pumped up my Sentry and decided to go with five Intimidations. I can't remember how many times I've changed my mind about this: the rare moment when I could use TP to gain an advantage or the ability to use Intimidation with World Rupture, also rare because my Sentry isn't strong enough yet, and bombing's not exactly a fun part of a puzzle game.

Anyways, the point is, they just announced this nerf after I went with Twin Pistols again. So I've got 544 now, for better or worse. I'd need that Intimidation more now if I wanted to use Sentry, and I no longer have the advantage of not losing a turn after TP.

Still, in that inevitable moment when The Hood is cornered, I have a kill skill instead of a "sit back and die" skill. Of course, getting that 15 will be just as hard, but at least the possibility is there.

So, stronger and weaker. That turn-ender is unfair. Just not necessary. And you do these nerfs BEFORE you give him away as a prize. Not after.

scottee

A lot of the outrage would be over if they just had a one-time pop up that allowed you to respec the nerfed character for free. One time right after the change, no possibility afterwards.

Spoit

....why would you ever not go 5 for hood?

Wonko33

scottee wrote:

A lot of the outrage would be over if they just had a one-time pop up that allowed you to respec the nerfed character for free. One time right after the change, no possibility afterwards.

it is a sad thing that I only have one thumbs up to give you.

Unknown

Please add "does not end turn" on 5th yellow cover. Otherwise it is a very bad skill considering it doesn't generate AP anymore.

Unknown

The change to hood's yellow, specifically removing the no longer end turns bit on rank 5 has me utterly confused and makes me much more likely to drop it to rank 3 in favor for rank five in hood's black ability... Which in turn kinda self defeats the increased number of turns needed for world rupture to resolve...

The world rupture change, I'm not convinced it is a good idea to increase the damage on rank 5. Primarily because of Daken. Yes it takes more AP to fire off world rupture, it essentially means you need to potentially make two extra sets of green matches. Which means if there are the red tiles to support them, you are going to see more red strike tiles because of Daken, thereby actually increasing the damage of each world rupture countdown tile. Now if someone goes into a fight without AP boosts but with Daken, by the time you made the four green matches you need to fire off world rupture, you can potentially be looking at enough strike tiles to come close to matching what is given by sacrifice! Now if you couple that with Blade's green passive and or add in sacrifice as well, you could still be looking some rather large damage even if just a handful of those world rupture tiles actually resolve..

If you had four green matches, daken will add about 392 worth of strike tile damage, combine that with sacrifice's 571, you are looking at over 1k damage per world rupture strike tile damage. Obviously it's highly unlikely but not impossible for you to get off all 16 world rupture countdown tiles, half of them will be close to 8k damage and that's enough to take out the vast majority of unbuffed characters all for a cool 20 (green and yellow) AP, even Grey Suit BW doesn't do that much damage with her 19AP green!

The world rupture change on its own looks ok, but as I pointed out when you combine it with someone like Daken all it means is we'll see a lot more Daken's replacing Hood....Now if you want to avoid that, I would recommend a colour change either for world rupture or the colouor that triggers daken's pheromone rage.

Lystrata

Huh. Am impressed they've changed Sentry at all, given how much HP he must generate from hopping.

Am equally impressed that the change to Sentry isn't terrible - overall, it actually seems quite reasonable.

I also think the change to Hood is pretty reasonable, sans ending the turn. Not sure why that's the case? Sure, it can remove special tiles and create cascades... but so can 2* Magneto's purple (arguably, a lot more efficiently/predictably). I don't think the cost or damage is all that bad, provided it also doesn't end the turn. Reeeally can't work out the reasoning behind that.

Unknown

Totally in favor of the Sentry nerf. Makes him powerful, but not ridiculous for shield-hopping anymore.

I'm a little confused by the Hood nerf. I support removing AP gain (because of 4* Thor implications), but I don't understand keeping the "End the Turn" drawback on Yellow, especially at 15 yellow. Is there a good rationale for that part of the change that I'm missing?

Wonko33

Basically the new Hood Yellow would be better if it DIDN'T destroy tiles, you NEVER want to shake up the board for the other player

Pwuz_

jralbino wrote:

Let's not downplay the difference between 15 and 18.

TP only costs 18 AP at 1 cover.
It's 17 at 2 covers, 16 at 3 covers (the lowest any final build could have,) & 15 at 4 covers.

Now can I go back to downplaying the difference between 15 & 15?

Pwuz_

Well, considering the change in the Hood's Yellow, I'm still aiming to reach 5/5/3 for my build. The increase in damage on Yellow is still worth more than an extra couple of count down tiles I don't tend to have out.