Funbalancing - Mags & Spidey

MaxCavalera

Would be nice to get some sort of a update on the time frame of these changes. Sitting on a mounting pile of ISO(prolly gonna crack 100k tonight) and some HP for some of their remaining covers i don't have but if the changes are more like new wolvie and less like new thor ill be kicking myself. Until then ill just look at the pretty numbers they always look more substantial till you start to level.

NighteyesGrisu

know what you mean wrt to spidy...with mags I just though, screw it and levelled him anyway...if worst comes to happend I've had a few weeks of easy goon battles

Unknown

Hehe, I just got a Blue cover 2 days ago, making Spidey 3/3/3, but he is sitting at level 22 for the same reason.

Unknown

Been sitting on iso for a while too but over last 2 weeks, I brought Mags up from lvl80 to 120 today. He's just a blast of play with and has been in my main rotation with spidey, pun and patch for hulk pve. With black panther nerf, I figured who else was I going to put the iso into. Have not regretted it once. I've had a 130 spidey for a while so I will be sad if they hit him too hard.

Unknown

In DC tournament I saw some people with Mags left well below the cap. Don't get it. He was avoiding me until offered in tournaments lately.

From there I always kept him at level cap and won me battles with some insane speed and reliability. Hardly anyone else being capable of. I found his blue useful even for 8 and drastic improvement at 7 he is now. Will play hard in next LRs to complete the last 3 covers.
If he gets nerfed so be it -- nothing takes whatever I got using him.

Btw he offers some really good play fun value too: new things to look after, more interesting options for strategy and tactics.

Unknown

As someone with a fully covered and 100 spidey, I hope he gets nerfed hard. Simply put, he warps the game far too much in a unique manner. His stuns trivialize too many encounters which makes things get even more ridiculous which require in turn requires spidey even more

Unknown

entropic01 wrote:

As someone with a fully covered and 100 spidey, I hope he gets nerfed hard. Simply put, he warps the game far too much in a unique manner. His stuns trivialize too many encounters which makes things get even more ridiculous which require in turn requires spidey even more

Not every encounter?

Seriously though, i hope they do not nerf Magneto too hard; or at least just the Thor treatment (different but interesting abilities). He is very interesting and fun to play with, please keep it that way.

Unknown

gahudahu wrote:

Seriously though, i hope they do not nerf Magneto too hard; or at least just the Thor treatment (different but interesting abilities). He is very interesting and fun to play with, please keep it that way.

My hopes too. Guess his red will have fixed cost at 6 or 5 (5 is too much to hope for). Scaling the number of random tiles to nuke.

Blue is more interesting, some suggested to create different color shields so stopping feedback. Maybe just leave the cost at 8 or something.

Unknown

Why is everyone so fixated on nerfs? Icex has stated that they are trying to stay away from nerfs (as it causes players who invested iso into a nerfed character a lot of distress). He said that instead the focus will be to buff underused characters to make them viable for play. If you were to take away spideys stunlocking, what else is he good for? Low hp, and very low damage output - the character would be broken. The point of funbalancing now should be to make other characters playable.

Unknown

magickdonut wrote:

Why is everyone so fixated on nerfs? Icex has stated that they are trying to stay away from nerfs (as it causes players who invested iso into a nerfed character a lot of distress). He said that instead the focus will be to buff underused characters to make them viable for play. If you were to take away spideys stunlocking, what else is he good for? Low hp, and very low damage output - the character would be broken. The point of funbalancing now should be to make other characters playable.

I'm not a fan of nerfs either but spidey needs to be nerfed because he is the only character that can do what he does. It's almost mandatory to use Spidey in some situations and even if he isn't, he makes just about everything way easier

Unknown

magickdonut wrote:

Why is everyone so fixated on nerfs? Icex has stated that they are trying to stay away from nerfs (as it causes players who invested iso into a nerfed character a lot of distress). He said that instead the focus will be to buff underused characters to make them viable for play. If you were to take away spideys stunlocking, what else is he good for? Low hp, and very low damage output - the character would be broken. The point of funbalancing now should be to make other characters playable.

You make a good point, except for Spidey's case. His stunlock is so utterly OP that he alone can let you win fights against ANY team. This really has to change; if they can correct this anomaly and keep him interesting, all the better!

Unknown

It seems to me like they have a few "support" characters Spidey and OBW specifically. Support abilities including defense tiles, AP steal, stuns and healing. My question is this why are most of the support abilities localized in so few characters. If the developers want to encourage roster diversity there needs to be separate specialists. A stunner like Spidey who doesn't do much else, give the healing and defense tiles to someone less used. Same with OBW break it up, she is great at the AP steal, and has an ability that messes with countdown timers awesome. Why does she become the healer role also? And why is her healing ability better at managing countdown timers than bagman's countdown timer exclusive ability?

Mags? I like mag's powers even with low covers he is interesting and useful, he seems only to be on the nerfing block because of the add a cover for -1AP mechanic which seems cool but in practice lets some characters scale exponentially(any power costing 2 at five covers is much much greater than 5x as powerful as its one cover counterpart) and everyone else scaling merely linearly is left in the dust at high covers/levels

Unknown

Their goal has always been to slow down the game and make matches take longer, spidey accomplishes exactly that. we need to remember that this is infact mostly a 1 players game with a "pvp" leader board attached to it so things like spidey really only hurt your ability to finish matches in a swift and efficient manner.
And before i get flamed, yes i have a 4 cover blue spidey and have enough HP to pay for the 5th. So im well aware of how broken his stunlock can be.
But here's the other end of that double edge'd blade. We have all these people asking for some miracle that will both nerf spidey and not decimate his usefulness.
That's a pretty damn tall order people.
So here's my question to everyone calling for the nerf hammer.

How do would we go about nerfing spidey's blue without decimating his other two abilities AND end up not making his stun worse then the 1* Widow in that regard?

As for Mags, well thankfully his abilities are such that they could end up getting sideways tweaks much the same way that Thor did so as to keep him playable/useful.

Unknown

Just brainstorming for Spidey now

Purple passive: make a purple match place a random web tile (up to x web tiles, scales with # of covers, 2 webs at 5 covers?)

Yellow same as it is now

Blue, stun target for x turns based on number of web tiles, remove one web tile if there are no web tiles place one random web tile

does nearly the same thing but is more self limiting instead of infinite looping

Unknown

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Just brainstorming for Spidey now

Purple passive: make a purple match place a random web tile (up to x web tiles, scales with # of covers, 2 webs at 5 covers?)

Yellow same as it is now

Blue, stun target for x turns based on number of web tiles, remove one web tile if there are no web tiles place one random web tile

does nearly the same thing but is more self limiting instead of infinite looping

And with that change you just removed his protect tiles AND made his stun worse then widows.
Also please note that those tiles are dependent on the number of web tiles as well.
As i said it's not nearly as easy as most people seem to think it would be.

Unknown

ok ok, makes a web tile and defense tile

If you take the time to get the web tiles out then start stunning it could be much more powerful than widow's stun I didn't say anything about AP consumption so would still be stun whole enemy team for 5 turns with 6 blue ap, but yes without any setup it would be quite bad well exactly the same as 4 cover venom (max 4 ap for single target stun) but the potential is still there. Just trying to get Spidey to work harder for his lunch

Unknown

MaxCavalera wrote:

Would be nice to get some sort of a update on the time frame of these changes. Sitting on a mounting pile of ISO(prolly gonna crack 100k tonight) and some HP for some of their remaining covers i don't have but if the changes are more like new wolvie and less like new thor ill be kicking myself. Until then ill just look at the pretty numbers they always look more substantial till you start to level.

I believe a short while back someone else asked the same question and IceIX replied that the funbalancing agenda has been postponed indefinitely while they discuss a better way to implement it due to the negativity in which the players reacted to it.

Unknown

MTGOFerret wrote:

Cryptobrancus wrote:

Just brainstorming for Spidey now

Purple passive: make a purple match place a random web tile (up to x web tiles, scales with # of covers, 2 webs at 5 covers?)

Yellow same as it is now

Blue, stun target for x turns based on number of web tiles, remove one web tile if there are no web tiles place one random web tile

does nearly the same thing but is more self limiting instead of infinite looping

And with that change you just removed his protect tiles AND made his stun worse then widows.
Also please note that those tiles are dependent on the number of web tiles as well.
As i said it's not nearly as easy as most people seem to think it would be.

You are right, it is definitely not easy (though I like the separate web / stun idea of Cryptobrancus), but nobody said the dev job was easy

My turn: Do not change anything, BUT:

- Spiderman cannot heal himself
- Everytime Spiderman stuns an opponent, he is using his limited stock of web, which translate by a loss of Health (say I dont know, maybe 10%?)

That way he would still be pretty strong, but not as OP and tedious as currently, and may even become tactical to play. (this is a just a random idea, probably overflawed)

Edit: haha, it seems the spidey fan is out there ready to break the pitchfork! Alright, let's align it to Daken, 5%. Or what about adding a countdown timer, similar to Ares mechanism, to let Spidey renew his web stock?

Unknown

Lol 10% of his health for using a one turn stun on one character? You're crazy.

Unknown

Honestly the only way i can envision balancing spidey without completely overhauling him or nerfing into uselessness would be to make it so his blue was both an active and passive.
Up the active AP cost to like 4 or 5 and make it so that each time you match blue that it will create a yellow web tile. (the active no longer creates tiles)
Honestly though changing his web production like that might alone be enough to balance him.
i just would worry about its impact on his other two abilities is all.

Unknown

Spidey is over powered because his blue skill cost 2AP. It's not going to be fixed by doing something to his webs or his protect tiles. Make the blue stun cost 6AP and he's fixed.