pvp etiquette

PeterGibbons316

chamber44 wrote:

jobob wrote:

chamber44 wrote:

honestly, i find this conversation frustrating on behalf of all the people who play the game and don't have a clue about the "etiquette" that we've created internally. the thought that I might be on some random "snipers" list because *MPQ gave me* a juicy target which I then hit (as per the rules/point of the game) is really irritating. I get that the rules and systems have all sort of worked together to create this system, but it's really dumb.

Oh come on, it isn't that dumb. Do you like getting triple teamed? Then why do it to someone else, especially if you can easily find another person to hit, or just wait a minute or two and at least give them a chance to shield. It's not some convoluted code, it's just the Golden Rule.

I think we're talking about two different things here, or else you're assuming i have telepathy. I never mentioned double- or triple-tapping someone (which is what I assume you mean by "triple teamed"). However, time is always of the essence when I play. Why would i wait 2-3 minutes between matches? That's just that many fewer points I could score. And why assume that the other person i find to hit instead -- why assume that they're shielded, too?

I'm not going to go out of my way to hunt the same person down - mostly because i'm not going to bother wasting the ISO.

Triple-tapping was the context of the OP. Not triple tapping is just good etiquette, it's the golden rule. You don't do it to others because you don't like when it is done to you.

For what you are talking about though etiquette is really not the right word, it should be meta. Etiquette comes from the goodness of peoples' heart, meta is derived from optimal exploitation of game mechanics. The PvP meta of waiting to hit people comes from actually being able to score higher by doing so. At least in the long run. By waiting until your target shields you keep points in the slice. Shielding is the only way to break the zero-sum nature of PvP, and so the only way to generate points in the slice (that you are acquiring yourself) is to wait until people are shielded to attack them.

JVReal

chamber44 wrote:

And why assume that the other person i find to hit instead -- why assume that they're shielded, too?

If you aren't shield hopping you are floating, and you have time to wait a few minutes. If they aren't shielded after a few minutes, then they are climbing or floating and not shield hopping either. In those cases you waited a reasonable amount of time and people expect to get hit while climbing without too much concern, because they are climbing up to their threshold before shielding.

If you are shield hopping, you should be getting your queues while you are shielded... so finding 3 juicy queues and then waiting costs you nothing but 5-10 minutes. Nobody is hitting you while you are sitting there shielded. You then break shield, fight your 2 or 3 fights, and shield again. If you are searching for your queues while unshielded during a shield hop, you are doing it wrong.

If you start your climb cycle systematically, you find your first good queue, instead of hitting it right away, fill your other 2 nodes and by the time you have 3 good nodes, go to the first one, and battle it, by this time they've had enough time to finish their hop and shield if hopping, or take a hit if climbing but you gave them the benefit of the doubt. After that fight, skip until you find another good queue, then hit one of the other nodes you already had queued. By waiting for that first fight up front, you create that courtesy wait one time that carries over to your whole climb. It's not unreasonable.

TxMoose

JVReal wrote:

If you start your climb cycle systematically, you find your first good queue, instead of hitting it right away, fill your other 2 nodes and by the time you have 3 good nodes, go to the first one, and battle it, by this time they've had enough time to finish their hop and shield if hopping, or take a hit if climbing but you gave them the benefit of the doubt. After that fight, skip until you find another good queue, then hit one of the other nodes you already had queued. By waiting for that first fight up front, you create that courtesy wait one time that carries over to your whole climb. It's not unreasonable.

getting a 3-node rotation is nice, but sometimes doesn't happen where it is sustainable. at a minimum you can alternate between 2 nodes giving your queue at least 2 matches worth of time (the other match and their match) between queuing them and the hit coming through. queue node 1. hit node 2. queue node 2. hit node 1. queue node 1. hit node 1. etc.

franckynight

let me give you some insight about how this game is played . There are generally 3 categories of ppl playing this game at high-end:
1. there are climbers. Those are the guys who are trying to inject points into the shard. they are the rabbits. They start early, shield early to let all other guys in the truce (several alliances who decide to have a common battle chat) to feed off them. Its expensive in shields and they are the ones who are ok to bake and launch the cake train (that means giving ppl small teams). thats generally ppl with very strong rosters (2-3 5* champed).
2. there are leecchers: those are ppl who are feeding off points generated in the shard. they re gonna start late and will take advantage of big qs (50-75 pts) to catch up and will use minimum shields. that might be some small rosters, some random guys who have no clue (palying solo) or some strong rosters who want to maximize their time (i ve scored from 0-3k once on one shield).
3. floaters, snipers, enforcers: i mix the 3 of them cause their goals are not points-based. those guys are here either to ruin the day of some peeps (snipers) and the enforcers are here to prevent that to happen by occupying the snipers or chasing random players to get back the points they have taken to climbers (i know its bulling but its like that). floaters are ppl who dont want to shield early but want to farm isos, and dont bother to be hit by pepople climbing to shield. At some points they will climb and can be considered leechers.
Hopefully, now you have a better knowledge of whats happening in pvp.

chamber44

JVReal wrote:

chamber44 wrote:

And why assume that the other person i find to hit instead -- why assume that they're shielded, too?

If you aren't shield hopping you are floating, and you have time to wait a few minutes.

no, frankly i don't. This is a game that I play when I have time. I don't schedule my life around it; rather, i squeeze it in around other aspects of my life.

JVReal wrote:

If they aren't shielded after a few minutes, then they are climbing or floating and not shield hopping either. In those cases you waited a reasonable amount of time and people expect to get hit while climbing without too much concern, because they are climbing up to their threshold before shielding.

If you are shield hopping, you should be getting your queues while you are shielded... so finding 3 juicy queues and then waiting costs you nothing but 5-10 minutes. Nobody is hitting you while you are sitting there shielded. You then break shield, fight your 2 or 3 fights, and shield again. If you are searching for your queues while unshielded during a shield hop, you are doing it wrong.

If you start your climb cycle systematically, you find your first good queue, instead of hitting it right away, fill your other 2 nodes and by the time you have 3 good nodes, go to the first one, and battle it, by this time they've had enough time to finish their hop and shield if hopping, or take a hit if climbing but you gave them the benefit of the doubt. After that fight, skip until you find another good queue, then hit one of the other nodes you already had queued. By waiting for that first fight up front, you create that courtesy wait one time that carries over to your whole climb. It's not unreasonable.

This all assumes that i'm doing this based on rules and habits of high-level climbers which was the entire point of my first post in this thread. There are these rules and habits in place that are partially created by the unique challenges of this system of PvP; organized alliances and friends have evolved their play style to take advantage of them. Hooray for you (seriously - go nuts and have fun).
My point was that it seemed unfair to focus on specific players simply because they happened to hit you at an inopportune time without knowing the "rules" that they should be playing by.

The Bob The

I agree on the retaliations, but I'll line up in support of the idea of holding on good Q's if you're able. The reason is because this isn't just a convenience for power alliances and LINE users. I didn't join LINE or a competitive alliance until December, but even prior to that it was maddening when I was trying to just scrape out my meager 800 points and couldn't because I'd get hit multiple times in the few minutes I was trying to hop on (non-cupcake, whatever those were) teams. I don't think it's an unbreakable rule - everyone's in a hurry sometimes - but if I can, I give 'em that 5 minutes or so, and I did this well before getting wind of the maddening web of truces and practices that exists in more coordinated play. Do unto others, etc...

madsalad

franckynight wrote:

let me give you some insight about how this game is played . There are generally 3 categories of ppl playing this game at high-end:
2. there are leecchers: those are ppl who are feeding off points generated in the shard. they re gonna start late and will take advantage of big qs (50-75 pts) to catch up and will use minimum shields. that might be some small rosters, some random guys who have no clue (palying solo) or some strong rosters who want to maximize their time (i ve scored from 0-3k once on one shield).

This is the category I typically fall into. I have a lvl 345 OML to help me along. I've only recently championed my first 3 4*s (granted, two of them are Jean and IMHB). I can push to 1K in about 1.5 hours. I am solo; not on LINE (though if someone would like to give me a quick tutorial of some sort, I'm all ears). I'm not clueless but I'm not coordinating in shieldcheck rooms. I try to play by the etiquette I've gleaned from these forums. Try not to multiple tap someone. Once I reach 1K, if I pull up two or more cupcakes in queue, I bake my own cupcake against the first cupcake really quick, then I beat the 2nd one with my A-Team as fast as possible. This should give others about 4 minutes to pull up my cupcake before I shield and, most people over 1K are playing by the "self-imposed etiquette rules" of waiting a few minutes to hit the cupcake. Most.

If I only climb to 1K and don't see any cupcakes because I'm not coordinating, I look at it as a chance to save HP since I will not be shield
hopping.