*** Thor (Modern) ***

mischiefmaker

Wait, don't Ragnarok and IM40 both have below-average damage skills and a ton of health? They also generate AP so they're not totally dummyproof, but totally dummyproof also means that there's nothing you can do tactically on offense, which seems pretty boring.

NorthernPolarity

mischiefmaker wrote:

Wait, don't Ragnarok and IM40 both have below-average damage skills and a ton of health? They also generate AP so they're not totally dummyproof, but totally dummyproof also means that there's nothing you can do tactically on offense, which seems pretty boring.

Yeah, I think rag is a really good example of why dummyproof characters shouldn't exist: they just aren't powerful enough to see play. I don't think I've seen a single Ragnarok played in anything except the LRs. I would call IM40 almost dummy proof: his 20AP blue makes him a big liability because the AI is going to collect blue even though there is very little chance that they'll actually get to 20 blue in the match, wasting a ton of matches for no reason.

Unknown

mischiefmaker wrote:

Wait, don't Ragnarok and IM40 both have below-average damage skills and a ton of health? They also generate AP so they're not totally dummyproof, but totally dummyproof also means that there's nothing you can do tactically on offense, which seems pretty boring.

Someone's got to be the dummy proof guy, and there's nothing wrong to have a dummy proof character. Sometimes you don't need anything fancy from your guys.

Unknown

NorthernPolarity wrote:

mischiefmaker wrote:

Wait, don't Ragnarok and IM40 both have below-average damage skills and a ton of health? They also generate AP so they're not totally dummyproof, but totally dummyproof also means that there's nothing you can do tactically on offense, which seems pretty boring.

Yeah, I think rag is a really good example of why dummyproof characters shouldn't exist: they just aren't powerful enough to see play. I don't think I've seen a single Ragnarok played in anything except the LRs. I would call IM40 almost dummy proof: his 20AP blue makes him a big liability because the AI is going to collect blue even though there is very little chance that they'll actually get to 20 blue in the match, wasting a ton of matches for no reason.

What character with only 2 abilities sees regular play on the high end?

If lazy Thor only has his red and yellow and is limited to level 110 he sure wouldn't be overpowered. Even if you give him his best abilities (yellow/green), he'd still be considerably weaker just from missing 31 levels.

Unknown

First they reduced the strength of the old Thor, then they created a new Thor that looks different but has the same abilities that the old Thor does.... Come on! They could of at least made up different abilities!

NorthernPolarity

Phantron wrote:

NorthernPolarity wrote:

mischiefmaker wrote:

Wait, don't Ragnarok and IM40 both have below-average damage skills and a ton of health? They also generate AP so they're not totally dummyproof, but totally dummyproof also means that there's nothing you can do tactically on offense, which seems pretty boring.

Yeah, I think rag is a really good example of why dummyproof characters shouldn't exist: they just aren't powerful enough to see play. I don't think I've seen a single Ragnarok played in anything except the LRs. I would call IM40 almost dummy proof: his 20AP blue makes him a big liability because the AI is going to collect blue even though there is very little chance that they'll actually get to 20 blue in the match, wasting a ton of matches for no reason.

What character with only 2 abilities sees regular play on the high end?

If lazy Thor only has his red and yellow and is limited to level 110 he sure wouldn't be overpowered. Even if you give him his best abilities (yellow/green), he'd still be considerably weaker just from missing 31 levels.

I think a level 115 lazythor with green/yellow would actually be pretty playable. Level 115 Thor would look something like 7k hp, 3.2k damage call the storm, and 1.6k damage thunder strike, which honestly looks pretty decent just given thunder strike due to how yellow is a meh color right now, and call the storm would still deal decent damage. Great abilities would carry a 2 color character to the point of playability (non damage based ones like thunder strike are more likely to be great since the damage doesn't matter as much with that ability): and rag not really having that is his main problem. I think Doctor Doom is a good example of your 2 color constraint argument though: he has 2 solid abilities, but isn't playable due to the lack of a 3rd color and 31 levels.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Konman wrote:

Phantron wrote:

They said a gold character is basically a stronger version of a character (Thor 3* versus Thor 2*). Fundamentally, this isn't a terrible idea because we could use someone with Thor's skillset in the 3* game. However currently the gold character seems to be 'send money this way to enjoy pummeling your opposition to oblivion'.

But all its doing is making the players that aren't at the solid *** roster stage yet, like myself, even less likely to make it there any time soon. While those already in that level are, probably able to win the necessary event rewards to more easily obtain new *** covers. I don't have any *** above 100, and only 1 above 85 (Punisher), with most of them being a single cover. The trend is definitely toward high end players, and LazyThor doesn't add anything to my level of play, just like nearly all the *** characters I have.

I wonder how long it will be before LazyThor is nerfed.

I agree. I don't have any hero's above 100, my closest is Thor (2) who is level 76. It doesn't seem fair, but it's all about money, isn't it?

OnesOwnGrief

Couldn't an argument be made that the release of 3* Thor might actually help those with a low MMR rise faster? I know I've been checking a few low levels I run into and they have a few newer characters on their roster. Gaining each cover could theoretically allow them to push higher and spend HP on more covers.

I just know from experience that having a low MMR for PvP and PvE actually gets you a better chance at the top rewards depending on your bracket. You also get an even better chance since the devs seem to have stopped making the cover essential nodes high level opponents. They have recently been lower level than the opponents you face at the end of the maps. Though this is all moot if all you're facing are level 140+ opponents.

kensterr

Not sure if anyone posted this before for a 3/5/5 Thor

Red 1168, creates 3 yellow tiles
Yellow 2121 creates 9 green tiles
Green 3856/1927

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

The 3* range is missing a 'dummyproof tank' hero. Not a strong hero, just someone who can mindlessly do some below average damage while soaking up hits. I have the HP for 1600 but not for 1700, so let me buy the very next.

That sounds like IM40. And maybe Rags too, especially if got some 3rd ability finally.

Unknown

So is there any differnce in abilities between ** and *** thor? Other than damage number and health?

OnesOwnGrief

pasa_ wrote:

So is there any differnce in abilities between ** and *** thor? Other than damage number and health?

Looking at the stats, I'm not seeing much diffence in the way in which he works or the damage spread of his abilities. Even the tile generation looks identical. Never understood where people got pre-nerf Thor from since the formula looks exactly like post-nerf Thor.

Phaserhawk

kensterr wrote:

Not sure if anyone posted this before for a 3/5/5 Thor

Red 1168, creates 3 yellow tiles
Yellow 2121 creates 9 green tiles
Green 3856/1927

If these numbers are correct, he is OP, I mean 2* Thor hits hard, now you add more HP and higher damage values to work through, geesh.

OnesOwnGrief

Phaserhawk wrote:

kensterr wrote:

Not sure if anyone posted this before for a 3/5/5 Thor

Red 1168, creates 3 yellow tiles
Yellow 2121 creates 9 green tiles
Green 3856/1927

If these numbers are correct, he is OP, I mean 2* Thor hits hard, now you add more HP and higher damage values to work through, geesh.

Can confirm:
2121 5Y
1817 5R
3263/1630 4G

kensterr

Please please please if they want to nerf him then I hope they take their own sweet time like what they are doing with C.Mag and Spidey now

Polares

Phaserhawk wrote:

kensterr wrote:

Not sure if anyone posted this before for a 3/5/5 Thor

Red 1168, creates 3 yellow tiles
Yellow 2121 creates 9 green tiles
Green 3856/1927

If these numbers are correct, he is OP, I mean 2* Thor hits hard, now you add more HP and higher damage values to work through, geesh.

Mmm he is a very good character, but I don't know why you say he is OP. I don't see him being better than Patch or Punisher (and of course Spidey and CMags are still way better). He is the best tank there is but I don't think he is OP. I think the problem with this character is that other tanks like IM40 or BP need to be slightly buffed. (BP needs a better yellow ability, IM40 needs his abilities to be a little cheaper and Hulk needs its red to be far better).

I love Thor and I thought we needed a 3* Thor so I am happy they created a 3* Thor.

As I said, the only problem I see is that we have a lot of characters that need to be buffed, so not everybody uses Punisher, Patch, Thor, Spidey, CMags, Hood or OBW.


I suposse eveybody agrees on 3/5/5 as best build? I don't know if maybe 4/5/4 could be a good build. I love red, but Punisher red is better and I suposse I will use both in my team. Of course I will also use Punisher green (at least at first) so I don't know what to do...

Phaserhawk

Polares wrote:

Phaserhawk wrote:

kensterr wrote:

Not sure if anyone posted this before for a 3/5/5 Thor

Red 1168, creates 3 yellow tiles
Yellow 2121 creates 9 green tiles
Green 3856/1927

If these numbers are correct, he is OP, I mean 2* Thor hits hard, now you add more HP and higher damage values to work through, geesh.

Mmm he is a very good character, but I don't know why you say he is OP. I don't see him being better than Patch or Punisher (and of course Spidey and CMags are still way better). He is the best tank there is but I don't think he is OP. I think the problem with this character is that other tanks like IM40 or BP need to be slightly buffed. (BP needs a better yellow ability, IM40 needs his abilities to be a little cheaper and Hulk needs its red to be far better).

I love Thor and I thought we needed a 3* Thor so I am happy they created a 3* Thor.

As I said, the only problem I see is that we have a lot of characters that need to be buffed, so not everybody uses Punisher, Patch, Thor, Spidey, CMags, Hood or OBW.


I suposse eveybody agrees on 3/5/5 as best build? I don't know if maybe 4/5/4 could be a good build. I love red, but Punisher red is better and I suposse I will use both in my team. Of course I will also use Punisher green (at least at first) so I don't know what to do...

I just think those numbers are gonna be a little high if he is a full fledged 7000HP tank. That being said, I do agree current Meta Thor just doesn't fit. Most people are running Puisher or Patch and C. Mags and then whatever else they want. You really only want Thor for his Yellow and the question is, are there better yellow sills out there? Most 3*'s yellows are non-damaging abilties, in fact I think until Thor only The Hood was the only 3* or 4* for that matter that did any damage on a yellow ability and even that only does tile damage.

Unknown

His skills way outclass the commonly seen 3* heroes. Let's compare him to Punisher.

Red: about equal if both are at 5. Since Thor's red is his weakest skill, most likely it'd be Thor 3r versus Punisher 5r, so edge goes to Punisher here, but Punisher's red isn't exactly that great against the standard 5800 HP heroes.

Green: 14 green does about 8000 damage for Thor immediately. Even with 2 Judgments putting say 600 damage worth of strike tiles, it'll be a pretty long time before that catches up. This ignores the fact that the tiles might be destroyed (possibly by the second Judgment) or that getting someone dead right now is far better than 10 turns later.

Yellow versus Black: Yellow can be considered as just another green in Thor's case. It's hard to imagine why adding 9 green tiles (1.5 Oasis worth of tiles) wouldn't somehow get into a massive green cascade, so you're basically comparing yellow's damage (about 2K) + green's damage (8K total) versus Molotov. The result is not even close. Even if you somehow don't hit any green cascades, his yellow does about 2K damage which is roughly the same as Molotov's total damage. Yes Molotov benefits from strike tile 3 times, but that hardly compares to an attack that most likely sets up for an immediate Call the Storm.

OnesOwnGrief

We're probably going to see a lot of Punishers as hard counters for Thor. Getting him down enough to one shot with Red will be key. Now you just have to decide how you're going to go about denying his yellow/green since his Red is manageable. Basically, its only going to be particularly nasty if you have to stare down him and Hulk.

Unknown

OnesOwnGrief wrote:

We're probably going to see a lot of Punishers as hard counters for Thor. Getting him down enough to one shot with Red will be key. Now you just have to decide how you're going to go about denying his yellow/green since his Red is manageable. Basically, its only going to be particularly nasty if you have to stare down him and Hulk.

Thor doesn't get countered by anyone. You still have to do about 4800 damage before he hits the 40% range.

The only thing he might be susceptible is AP stealing ability but nobody said you can't have lazy Thor with AP stealers too. In fact the two probably works very well together since Thor wants a lot of APs to get his skills going.