PVE Scaling Feedback & New Test : Prodigal Sun

DTStump

Linkster79 wrote:

Points refresh timer: I like the new system. I am not ultra competitive and certainly aren't able to log in every 8 hours so keep this.

That is fair, but in my view if you are not competitive (not going for placement rewards) you shouldn't care that much about the timer anyway, whether it is 8 hours or 24 hours. You can get your progression rewards at a similar level of difficulty with either system.

However, for people who do try to be competitive and get placement rewards, the new system significantly increases the ceiling of "optimal play". This means that people who want to be in the top 50, 25 or whatever have to play a lot more to keep up with the competition.

kenshohmer2

Correct me if I’m wrong, and sorry if I’m repeating what have been said countless times but here is how it feels to me:
Old system:
-I want top rewards : 3 clear a day + 2 hours grind, so 3/3.5 hours a day.
-I just want 25CP: 3 clear a day with an ok difficulty so 1/1.5 hour a day.

New system:
-I want top rewards: 6 clear a day + 2 hours grind, so 5/6 hours a day, and at once.
-I just want 25CP: 6 clear a day, with insane difficulty, so a good 3/3.5 hours a day

I don’t see how the new system is better for me.
I don’t care to be able to play when I want if it means having to play way more.

AsylumTKJ

kenshohmer2 wrote:

Correct me if I’m wrong, and sorry if I’m repeating what have been said countless times but here is how it feels to me:
Old system:
-I want top rewards : 3 clear a day + 2 hours grind, so 3/3.5 hours a day.
-I just want 25CP: 3 clear a day with an ok difficulty so 1/1.5 hour a day.

New system:
-I want top rewards: 6 clear a day + 2 hours grind, so 5/6 hours a day, and at once.
-I just want 25CP: 6 clear a day, with insane difficulty, so a good 3/3.5 hours a day

I don’t see how the new system is better for me.
I don’t care to be able to play when I want if it means having to play way more.

I feel the same.
The scaling the devs are trying to adress again is really not the only one problem with this pve format.
It just asks to grind too much.
The return of this test is really a bad new to me.

Twysta

rastafari7

Please stop with these tests, nobody likes it, that was clear after the first test.

Lukoil

rastafari7 wrote:

Please stop with these tests, nobody likes it, that was clear after the first test.

well some people(casuals) who thinks that it will help them get top rewards seems to like it....they don't undesrtnad that they got high results because top player don't bother playing this **** for **** rewards (Cho hulk anyone?)....

firethorne

So...

Still adhering to "PvE" that is competitive and isn't PvE.

Still harder nodes for zero additional rewards.

Still an insane increase grind for anyone fighting for placement.

Still increasing the difficultly with each unlucky (not CP) prize drawn on already the hardest node for people who's spirit has long since been broken, have long ago forgotten about placement, and only want the precious few scraps of CP.

Still nothing to address the gargantuan ISO shortage, not even an admission that it needs to be fixed.

And you're asking for our input... why?

Linkster79

DTStump wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

Points refresh timer: I like the new system. I am not ultra competitive and certainly aren't able to log in every 8 hours so keep this.

That is fair, but in my view if you are not competitive (not going for placement rewards) you shouldn't care that much about the timer anyway, whether it is 8 hours or 24 hours. You can get your progression rewards at a similar level of difficulty with either system.

However, for people who do try to be competitive and get placement rewards, the new system significantly increases the ceiling of "optimal play". This means that people who want to be in the top 50, 25 or whatever have to play a lot more to keep up with the competition.

I can see the hardcore players point of view and for those who want top placement rewards this new timer system is completely and utterly absurd especially combined with the new and again absurd scaling. I only go for progression when an event runs during my days off which is once every other blue moon (shift worker here, long hours for many days then many days off), but seeing as I have a family to spend time with I don't want to even think about ignoring them to go and play MPQ so every 8 hours is impractical for me. This is a purely selfish and looking at it from own own perspective opinion.

Lukoil

Linkster79 wrote:

DTStump wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

Points refresh timer: I like the new system. I am not ultra competitive and certainly aren't able to log in every 8 hours so keep this.

That is fair, but in my view if you are not competitive (not going for placement rewards) you shouldn't care that much about the timer anyway, whether it is 8 hours or 24 hours. You can get your progression rewards at a similar level of difficulty with either system.

However, for people who do try to be competitive and get placement rewards, the new system significantly increases the ceiling of "optimal play". This means that people who want to be in the top 50, 25 or whatever have to play a lot more to keep up with the competition.

I can see the hardcore players point of view and for those who want top placement rewards this new timer system is completely and utterly absurd especially combined with the new and again absurd scaling. I only go for progression when an event runs during my days off which is once every other blue moon (shift worker here, long hours for many days then many days off), but seeing as I have a family to spend time with I don't want to even think about ignoring them to go and play MPQ so every 8 hours is impractical for me. This is a purely selfish and looking at it from own own perspective opinion.

but....you don't need playing with 8 hour clock for progression... It is only needed for top placement.

Pylgrim

Adding my voice to the many that demand that the next test after this one changes the amount of available refreshes. All changes have been geared so far to the more casual player of PVE, it's now time to consider the competitive player base as well, for whom these changes have literally doubled an already very high time requirement.

Gmax101

Firstly, please accept that I agree with the following:

- Excessive Grinding is BAD
- Rewards are currently not commensurate with the effort
- PVE(P) is rubbish

It is clear that NONE of the above is being addressed and that is understandably causing a whole lot of anger among forumites (after all, the only real issue with scaling has been the impact of 5stars on otherwise low level rosters, and rather than devote time on this, most people seem to want the other things fixed first)

However, this test is solely focused on a method for calculating scaling.

Now I enjoyed the scaling (note, not the rubbish rewards etc) in the tests, more so in the second test than the first obviously. I like the increasing challenge. It actually does bring a sense of achievement, and causes me to think about my team choices.

If this latest tests increases the % of my roster I can use while completing nodes (even if I end up with A team at the top end of the harder nodes then that is fine) and I the increases in difficulty give me a challenge without just outright crushing me, then as far as this specific test is concerned I might be happy.

But even if that is the case, they STILL need to fix the other issues everyone is rightly arguing about.

pheregas

I play only because I need the Iso. This new system not only does not provide more iso, it actually provides less.

Why?

I do not play the "easy" nodes more than once. With 6 clears on higher point level nodes, it is simply just not worth my time. It takes the same amount of time and health packs to play the higher/essential nodes to death. If I'm going to grind and get max progression, I'm going to do it for max points per fight.

Do I like doing it? No.

Do I keep doing it? Yes.

Why? Iso and CP.

I've always viewed the point of this game is to have fun leveling your roster to gnarly status. However, at every turn we've been shown (in deed, despite assurance that is not the case) that leveling is BAD.

I worked hard to Champion 4*s in order to make PVE more of a cakewalk. But we keep getting punished for that in PVE. For the first time, I'm really considering just becoming PVP exclusive.

Please listen to your fanbase. Please remove competitive PVE. Please add iso, or at least add iso to be proportional to difficulty. Or just don't break the system further.

Polares

AsylumTKJ wrote:

kenshohmer2 wrote:

Correct me if I’m wrong, and sorry if I’m repeating what have been said countless times but here is how it feels to me:
Old system:
-I want top rewards : 3 clear a day + 2 hours grind, so 3/3.5 hours a day.
-I just want 25CP: 3 clear a day with an ok difficulty so 1/1.5 hour a day.

New system:
-I want top rewards: 6 clear a day + 2 hours grind, so 5/6 hours a day, and at once.
-I just want 25CP: 6 clear a day, with insane difficulty, so a good 3/3.5 hours a day

I don’t see how the new system is better for me.
I don’t care to be able to play when I want if it means having to play way more.

I feel the same.
The scaling the devs are trying to adress again is really not the only one problem with this pve format.
It just asks to grind too much.
The return of this test is really a bad new to me.

Yep, my feelings too.

Even If scaling gets much better, I don't want to exchange playing a reasonable amount of time for playing whenever I want. Even If I just want the CP, 6 clears is A LOT, and If it is for a new char release, 4-6 hours? That is nuts!

Playing whenever I want is cool, but there are a lot of other problems far more important that needed to be addressed first. Scaling in PvE was a problem, doing the clears every 8 hours was a much smaller problem nobody was asking for a fix (not like 5 randomness, iso draught, 3 'nerf', buff of some chars, etc.)

PS: And buff chulk and SS !!!

Yoik

Hello,

The reduction in difficulty and the changes to spread are welcomed.

I think a major issue is being missed and that is down to the amount of clears now required to maintain a similar position on results we would expect on the old system.

For example. On an event I am usually top 100. Mostly 60 ish. That is enough for the CP reward and to get a cover of whatever is the overall reward. I am happy with that. I get to take part, get all rewards and get a decent position for more rewards. It helps stay reasonably competitive for a 3 star transitioner.

I am usually in this position by completing 4 or 5 runs.

The new version of events is good in that it lets you complete when you want but there are so many more clears required to get to the same end game I had before. 6 just for starters. Many more if I want my rewards. I believe I can still get the 25 cp rewards with the points provided but I won’t be competitive for a top 100. I have fizzled out the past 2 tests because I just couldn’t keep up. I play enough and as it stands in these tests my choice is to not commit.

I think the amount of clears needs addressing and or the rewards given. If you have to clear it 12 times to get top 10 surely there should be more than 7 rewards per node?

Our alliance that is usually top 30 for most things has taken the decision that if these changes come into place we won’t be competitively looking for event finishes anymore. Too many cannot commit to these new requirements to grind for position. All a choice I know, however if entire alliances are rethinking rather than just a few individuals it must be a wider problem.

JVReal

Blah Blah Blah, outrage!

Nobody liked it! (except for 90% of the player base that do)

I'm competitive, I hate this change, ergo NOBODY LIKES IT!

You don't want top 10? Play whenever you want and the points shouldn't matter to you, even though you probably still want top 100... probably want to place as high as you can and diminished points will negatively impact that placement .

Mod Edit: Play nice!

Vomit Fountain

Well I guess I'll give this new test a fair try before I dismiss it but I'm honestly not all that hopeful. Issues of increased rewards for increased difficulty and the overall grind of 6 clears has been raised every time they've done a test and so far they haven't been acknowledged or addressed in any way. If the devs are planning to look at these things too once they fix scaling it would be nice if they would say so.

Vhailorx

JVReal wrote:

Blah Blah Blah, outrage!

Nobody liked it! (except for 90% of the player base that do)

I'm competitive, I hate this change, ergo NOBODY LIKES IT!

You don't want top 10? Play whenever you want and the points shouldn't matter to you, even though you probably still want top 100... probably want to place as high as you can and diminished points will negatively impact that placement and you probably still want top progression, but because you don't matter to me personally, then points shouldn't matter to you since you are below me.

Waaaaah!

While i think it's true that the most competitive/engaged players are the most vocal and upset about these changes. I think that most of the critical posts about all of these threads have pointed out that the new system is worse for both competitive and casual players.

For competitive players they must grind a while lot more for the same placement/rewards. And they must face more, harder nodes to boot.

For casual players, they must clear more nodes per event to get the same prog rewards. And there are no more trivial nodes.

I love the idea of pve without a refresh timer. Gauntlet is great in part because I can play it at my own pace (except for than in re they stupidly gave out 10-packs for the top finishers). But that doesn't change the fact that this new system is just worse for players. Every kind of player.

firethorne

JVReal wrote:

Blah Blah Blah, outrage!

Nobody liked it! (except for 90% of the player base that do)

I'm competitive, I hate this change, ergo NOBODY LIKES IT!

You don't want top 10? Play whenever you want and the points shouldn't matter to you, even though you probably still want top 100... probably want to place as high as you can and diminished points will negatively impact that placement and you probably still want top progression, but because you don't matter to me personally, then points shouldn't matter to you since you are below me.

Waaaaah!

We realize some like it (though, I'd like to see you put up some supportive evidence for that 90% figure). If you liked it, then that's wonderful. It doesn't mean that criticism shouldn't be considered.

I'm not a top player. I literally cannot remember when I've placed in the top 10 on anything. It hasn't been this year. And the old story mode is very broken. But, I honestly think these changes are still bad. The bottom line for me is that it still represents increased difficult and effort for zero additional rewards. And for me, that is a horrible change.

TxMoose

OneLastGambit wrote:

Don't take this as an inflammatory remark because it is genuine curiosity.

Why do people keep playing these tests competitively if they are unhappy with them?

not necessarily competitively, covers are nice, but all I care about is farming and farming, while sooo much harder in the "new" versions we've tested, is the only way my roster progresses right now. sure I still have LRs and ddq, but pve is a huuuge component of iso production in the game and my 8 million iso needed for the covers in my roster aren't coming by not playing.

CrookedKnight

In previous tests I've hit top 50/100 overall despite not grinding anything once the timer showed up. It's a huge pain in the **** if you want top 10, but I personally don't care about that, plus it's a huge pain in the **** to get top 10 right now. Thus, I'm okay with the new points structure.

The difficulty factor, though -- I really hope D3 takes into account boosted characters when comparing how people with relatively high-level rosters did in the various tests. We went from EOTS with Iceman and 4* Cyclops boosted to Unstable ISO-8 with FalCap and similarly "useful" characters, and now it's Red Hulk and Hulkbuster. Those two can clear Gauntlets by themselves when they're boosted.