Civil war - Which side will you choose?

Mawtful

FierceKiwi wrote:

Or create the illusion of choice. Everyone is playing towards the same point target/whatever but the only difference is the story they're shown/enemies they face that are attached to that target.

Or more likely force everyone into the same side then run what amounts to the same event again with the other side's story.

Both of these are interesting concepts. Particularly the second, if done well - they could write a generic enough "civil war" style story (heroes fighting against heroes) and then they can "reskin" it every time they run it - it could be used for "2 Civil 2 War" with Team Carol and Team Tony, or a Black Vortex story with GotG vs X-Men. They wouldn't even have to follow an existing story, we could have the Heroes for Hire vs Fantastic Four, or X-Force vs the Cabal.

JeffCascadian

As a HeroClix player and judge, I'm used to the player base being split for an event. We'll even being doing that for a multi-month Civil War organized play storyline coming up soon. I don't see that being a problem here, particularly for PVE.

OneLastGambit

Its an interesting debate and it's impossible to agree with Tony without also saying that if you have special skills of any kind then you must be an employee of the government . of you happen to be jet li for example you must register to work for China or become a criminal.

If you are Stephen hawking, you must register to work for UK government.

If you are anyone with exceptional skills you must register with your government and become their employee.

The point cap was making is you should be able to choose and just because you are exceptional doesn't mean you should be monitored. Whether they have skills or not they are still people. At the end of the story he gives up and surrenders (which is also his right to do) but still does not work for the government and register and he still disagrees with it right up until the point he gets shot.

As for the argument that if they stop crime they should be held accountable for vigilantiism that's not true either since I can stop a mugging or bank robbery or even foil a terrorist attack now and not be a criminal. Someone like Batman (who tampers with evidence and obstructs justice) can or someone like punisher (who is guilty of either manslaughter or murder on multiple counts) can. But Spidey , cap et al who protect and stop crimes in progress? They are simply making a citizens arrest. The fact they have powers doesn't stop them from being able to do that.

OneLastGambit

atomzed wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

Side question I wonder how many people would still pick iron man if RDJ had not been picked to portray him?

Interesting Capt is my fave character, but I have chosen Ironman over cap in civil war (movie).

Some form of regulation is essential. You could argue about the level of control, but there must be some form of control and accountability (in real life, not comic life).

Just look at the sub prime crisis. Clear case in which true capitalism with no control, and see the harm it does.

Let me direct your question back at you... How much of what you like about the anti registration stand is due to the character, capt, supporting it¿

For me personally I agree with caps argument but if iron man had that side of the argument then despite me not liking him id agree with him.

I think the freedom to choose ones vocation is a pretty basic right. Remeber the story says all superhuman must register, not only the superhuman who are crime fighters. They should have the choice to quit if they want (a choice cap exercises at the end) but the registration act forces them to register or become a criminal. That is wrong in my opinion, to quote another famous freedom fighter "freedom is the right of all sentient beings"

Dragon_Nexus

For me the whole mandatory registration thing felt so much like racial segregation.

It's very similar in theme to the Mutant Registration Act. I'm on board with the idea of cataloguing enhanced beings but controlling them is very murky.
I mean, you need to have some kind of register of who has powers, what they are, what kind of threat level they pose, etc. I mean you have someone like Nightcrawler capable of teleporting into the whitehouse and assassinating the president by himself with no real backup, because he doesn't need it. You have someone like Mystique capable of becomming anyone she pleases. You have people like Magneto capable of shifting the magnetic poles of the Earth and causing huge natural disasters and murdering millions. Yeah, we should probably keep tabs on these people.

But there's a difference between that and collaring them, bringing them to heel and demanding their utter obedience like they're simply military assets. Especially with people like the Inhumans. Some people just want to get on with their lives and ignore their powers.

MaxxPowerz

Let me tell you something about these superhumans, I'm so tired of them crying about their entitlements! If I'm elected president I'm going to cut a deal with them...let me tell you something folks because I'm really good at cutting deals. I'm gonna make them build a wall and pay for it, and that wall is gonna be so huge! And I know about building walls because I've built a few towers in my time. We need to make America great again and stop getting hosed by these freeloading superheroes. My people tell me there is a superhuman who can shoot lasers from his eyeballs and level whole city blocks! If I build my wall we'll never have to worry about this again, unless of course they just fly over it...but that's not the point!

AtlasAxe

My take on a two things:

1. In the movie, the accords appear to be largely a result of Tony deciding he can control everything on his own and generally being a tool (Ultron). Honestly, how was all that not entirely on his doorstep? Cap for sure.

2. The idea of Reed cloning Thor is completely consistent with my reading of Reed. He has an ego the size of Manhattan. He also has the understanding of the reason the registration act is necessary, but shares it with no one. He's really not a good guy.

atomzed

Firstly I like to say that I am enjoying the discussion generated in this thread. I respect the right of individuals to hold differing views. In fact now that I hear people fleshing out their opinions, it makes some sense.

To me, I support the general premise of the registration act (but not the execution such as jailing people and going all out to catch them; which to me is just a way for comic books to generate tension).

Why do I support it? BecAuse in real life, we would have demand for accountability and responsibility. What happens when a superhero accidentally killed someone during their heroic act? Maybe a ricochete bullet? Maybe a falling wall?

Or how about a young mutant who decides to get into superhero business, but who has not been trained before and just cause more dmg?

Onelastgambit mentioned that if someone wants to help foil a bank robbery, he should not be penalised. What if we comes in from the angle of a young adult who wants to help police his neighbourhood, and he found a gun, and he start using it without any training? His intention is noble, but is he sufficiently trained?

OneLastGambit wrote:

I think the freedom to choose ones vocation is a pretty basic right . Remeber the story says all superhuman must register, not only the superhuman who are crime fighters. The

I agree with the vocation analogy. In fact, in real life, specialised vocation often form professional societies to govern and regulate themselves. If they fail to do so, eventually the government will have to intervene when there are too many rogue professionals.

For example, I would want my doctors to have minimum training, and when they have a medical license, I am confident that he meets the minimum training standards.

Besides training, the current proficiency level also matters. A professional society will have rules to ensure currency. Giving a real life example, my friend's daughter requires physiotherapy. The physiotherapist who attended to her was not proficient and current in handling her, and it resulted in a fractured bone. If she has follow certain guidelines, she may not have fractured my friends daughter.

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

For me the whole mandatory registration thing felt so much like racial segregation.

But there's a difference between that and collaring them, bringing them to heel and demanding their utter obedience like they're simply military assets. Especially with people like the Inhumans. Some people just want to get on with their lives and ignore their powers.

I agree with the bolded line, but I see that as an execution issue. The registration act is critical, but it should be regulated lightly. Hunting people down is taking it to the extreme.