Civil war - Which side will you choose?

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  • UNC_Samurai
    UNC_Samurai Posts: 402 Mover and Shaker
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    Where is the "I'm with Hulk laying waste to an alien planet" option?
  • atomzed
    atomzed Posts: 1,753 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Where is the "I'm with Hulk laying waste to an alien planet" option?

    When the next movie is out. :p

    On that note, a Planet Hulk movie would be so cool!
  • Linkster79
    Linkster79 Posts: 1,037 Chairperson of the Boards
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    atomzed wrote:

    Side question I wonder how many people would still pick iron man if RDJ had not been picked to portray him?

    Interesting Capt is my fave character, but I have chosen Ironman over cap in civil war (movie).

    Some form of regulation is essential. You could argue about the level of control, but there must be some form of control and accountability (in real life, not comic life).

    Just look at the sub prime crisis. Clear case in which true capitalism with no control, and see the harm it does.

    Let me direct your question back at you... How much of what you like about the anti registration stand is due to the character, capt, supporting it¿

    Interesting that you mention the sub prime crisis, was that not in part due to greed and corruption at almost every level of the United States financial institution? Keeping on the sub prime theme when superheroes get things wrong shouldn't the government be there to help bail them out like they did with JP Morgan Chase or Goldman Sachs? How much is the bailout up to now? Somewhere in the region of $16.8 trillion last i heard. After all the government were happy with superheroes when things were going good so they shouldnt stand by them when things go a bit sideways? Maybe superheroes should be above the law just like the US division of HSBC are after being proven that they have laundered billions of dollars for Mexican drug cartels. Maybe superheroes like Captain America really are too big to be held accountable by mere mortal institutions like governments.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    atomzed wrote:
    Where is the "I'm with Hulk laying waste to an alien planet" option?

    When the next movie is out. :p

    On that note, a Planet Hulk movie would be so cool!
    I have heard the next Thor movie will be the closest thing to Plant Hulk we will get. Marvel does not own the rights to a solo Hulk movie
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Under this proposed scenario, if the choice is:

    a) FalconCap, LazyCap, 2*Cap,
    b) Hulkbuster, IM40, IM35.

    Give me choice b) every time and twice when they inevitably run it back to back.
  • rastafari7
    rastafari7 Posts: 75 Match Maker
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    Without knowing what the comic or movie is about, always Iron Man.
    Cap America is not populair outside North America.
  • STOPTHIS
    STOPTHIS Posts: 781 Critical Contributor
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    I think most people missed the point.

    The comics were not about whether heroes had the right to beat people up anonymously.

    It was about whether they had the right to decide how to use their powers or whether they should simply register and be told how to use their powers and when.

    That's what it became, because they threw any kind of nuance out the window and made one side a strawman the longer the story went on. Ideologically, they go hand in hand though. Without some form of oversight/regulation, without some form of accountability, all they are doing is beating up people they consider criminals. We accept it, because we know it's fantasy, we know they're heroes, and that they (usually) do the right thing, but in reality no mugger Spider-Man stopped would ever go to jail or even be brought up on charges without some other form of evidence and someone like the Punisher would be, understandably, branded a terrorist.
    I think this idea is what the film will run with, and it has arguments on both sides.

    I am and always will be pro Cap. Never liked Tony in comics or films as he comes across as an arrogant tool though he is slightly more likeable in comics as he is far more flawed and humble than the movie version.

    Side question I wonder how many people would still pick iron man if RDJ had not been picked to portray him?

    Iron Man has always been my favorite character, so yes.
  • rawfsu
    rawfsu Posts: 291 Mover and Shaker
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    Going Captain America on this one. Things always get messy when the government gets involved, in real life and in the comics lol
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
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    in comics/movie, I voted cap. but in purely mpq terms - lets see

    cap gets falcon, witch, hawkeye and antman
    IM gets panther, black widows, spidey, and vision

    yeah, i'll go iron man team every. single. day. for mpq
  • Calnexin
    Calnexin Posts: 1,078 Chairperson of the Boards
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    atomzed wrote:

    Some form of regulation is essential. You could argue about the level of control, but there must be some form of control and accountability (in real life, not comic life).

    Gun control is probably the most pertinent metaphor. Superheroes are essentially weapons. While there are those who think ownership of a firearm should be freely available with no regulations, most people agree that they should probably be kept track of in some way.

    The conflict in the comic/movie plot is that these weapons are sentient. They're not just things. Even abstracting their powers as a "gun", where the individual exercises control of a destructive implement, they don't have a choice. Normal people can choose not to carry a gun and effectively opt-out of regulation. Cyclops gets no such option, so regulating him as a weapon becomes a form of tyranny.
  • Marvel Avengers Alliance had an interesting game mechanic for some of their special ops where you select a team of X heroes and you are locked into using only those for the cycle. Having a predetermined team of (for example) Iron Man, Vision, Black Panther, and Black Widow that you can then supplement would be fun.
  • Tryke
    Tryke Posts: 320 Mover and Shaker
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    Movie watcher here. I don't know how close movie cap is to the comics, but movie cap has been my favourite avenger since 'the first avenger' came out. However, I'm not so sure about this civil war thing because I can't really get behind bucky trying to shoot tony in the face (trailers).
  • optimus2861
    optimus2861 Posts: 1,232 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Calnexin wrote:
    Cyclops gets no such option, so regulating him as a weapon becomes a form of tyranny.
    On the flip side, that doesn't give Cyclops the right to blast anyone who he decides is an enemy without some kind of due process, accountability, etc.

    That's why I tend to lean toward Iron Man's side in the conflict as it will be presented in the film. The comics were far too heavy-handed with the issue, so I do hope the film is able to present it with valid arguments for both sides and even leave the resolution a bit grey. The MCU is a world where SHIELD was completely corrupted by HYRDA, for instance (an argument Cap will no doubt make), and SHIELD is currently functioning as kind of a rogue agency as far as world governments - especially the US government - are concerned. That is ammo for Iron Man / the USA to argue that rogue agencies / actors can't be permitted to act without some kind of civilian / government oversight. Not to mention that the American form of government places a civilian - the president - in ultimate command of the military, and that's an argument Cap shouldn't just ignore.
  • ZootSax
    ZootSax Posts: 1,819 Chairperson of the Boards
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    TxMoose wrote:
    in comics/movie, I voted cap. but in purely mpq terms - lets see

    cap gets falcon, witch, hawkeye and antman
    IM gets panther, black widows, spidey, and vision

    yeah, i'll go iron man team every. single. day. for mpq

    Purely in MPQ terms, I'm for whichever side Daken, Bullseye, Moonstone, Yelena, Sentry, Ares and Juggernaut join so I don't have to fight them in yet another PVE...otherwise you make a strong argument.
  • MaxxPowerz
    MaxxPowerz Posts: 276 Mover and Shaker
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    Neither. I would be inclined to side with Iron Man if wasn't such an egomaniac. This is like choosing between Hillary and Donald.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
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    ZootSax wrote:
    TxMoose wrote:
    in comics/movie, I voted cap. but in purely mpq terms - lets see

    cap gets falcon, witch, hawkeye and antman
    IM gets panther, black widows, spidey, and vision

    yeah, i'll go iron man team every. single. day. for mpq

    Purely in MPQ terms, I'm for whichever side Daken, Bullseye, Moonstone, Yelena, Sentry, Ares and Juggernaut join so I don't have to fight them in yet another PVE...otherwise you make a strong argument.
    don't get me wrong, 3cap/witch/antman is not a bad team at all. but 3*/4* IM with panther and a bw or vision - there's so much more you can do with that group. I can get 2 teams out of them where I get 1 out of cap's.
  • Trilateralus
    Trilateralus Posts: 251 Mover and Shaker
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    rastafari7 wrote:
    Without knowing what the comic or movie is about, always Iron Man.
    Cap America is not populair outside North America.

    That's really the interesting considering Cap is meant to represent the best qualities of America while IM arguably exemplifies its worst aspects.
  • ClydeFrog76
    ClydeFrog76 Posts: 1,350 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Polares wrote:
    Oh, and anyone who doesn't register for the act is considered a criminal and is put into a special prison in the Negative Zone, and this includes heroes who opt not to register, and the people who DO register are forced by the government to hunt them down.

    See, that right there is why the comic was so awful.
    You could understand both points of view until the Pro Registration side decided to set up concentration camps in an alternate dimension to house dissidents 8I

    Millar ideas are usually quite good but he usually has problems to develop those ideas and specially to end those comic events. And then when he does well, like Kick-**** he doesnt know when to stop (kick **** 2 is terrible, I didn't feel I needed to read the third one).

    Also, he is a complete and utter tool whose head is so far up his own **** he's wearing his tonsils as earrings.
  • Mawtful
    Mawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
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    I'm mentioned this every time the idea of a Civil War themed event is discussed, and I see no reason to stop now:

    Splitting the player base is a bad idea.

    I know you think it would be cool; to act as a mirror for the themes presented in the story. The reality is that one side is going to get stacked by the same people that are using out-of-game communication for shield hopping and baking. The only possible "solution" to stop that would be to randomly assign each player to one of the teams - and I can guarantee that would not go over well either.

    Truly, the best solution would be to write the event in such a way that all players get to experience both sides. In the comic books, Spider-Man is essentially used as a pivot to show the reader both sides, and MPQ could very easily do something similar.
  • FierceKiwi
    FierceKiwi Posts: 505 Critical Contributor
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    Mawtful wrote:
    Splitting the player base is a bad idea.

    I know you think it would be cool; to act as a mirror for the themes presented in the story. The reality is that one side is going to get stacked by the same people that are using out-of-game communication for shield hopping and baking. The only possible "solution" to stop that would be to randomly assign each player to one of the teams - and I can guarantee that would not go over well either.

    Or create the illusion of choice. Everyone is playing towards the same point target/whatever but the only difference is the story they're shown/enemies they face that are attached to that target.

    Or more likely force everyone into the same side then run what amounts to the same event again with the other side's story.