PVE Scaling Testing - Enemy Of The State (03/17/16)

wymtime

D3 I hate telling you his but I am tapping out of EOTS PVE. I will do 1 clear and then go for the CP, but with the leveling and health pack drain it just isn't with the effort. I normally finish PVE top 50 and new character top 20. I am being blown out of the water by rosters with 2* rosters and sometimes not even that. I am giving up the 25 CP for max progression and that is the main reason I play all PVE now. I tried not using AP boosts on even the easy nodes and I just need a health pack instead.
Caltrops is just killing my team and turn to smoke is just nasty in survival nodes. Good luck to everyone who continues to grind this event you deserve more than the Xforce reward for top 10!

Jam_Adams

so, devs have been back in the office now for a few hours.

will we get any response today to our concerns over this new format? I think the jury is in, I don't think the rest of the EOTS event will be changing anyone's mind...

Sixpak

I have finished max in all the PvE's since they've changed it to 25 CP as the reward. There is no way I'm even close. I'm bailing out of Hell's Kitchen and unfortunately the whole game itself if this is the format going forward. It sucks because I really like MPQ. This game hits everything I like about a game... Collecting, Marvel and Puzzle. I'm in need of a lot of Crystals to level up my characters so I don't waste covers, but those will all expire since they need 7 whole days to figure out that this format doesn't work. Just frustrated...

TxMoose

I have to say a change to this will pull me out of pve nearly altogether. I love playing mpq - the roots of the game are extremely enjoyable for me. recently I've even found much satisfaction from PVE. good balance of effort and reward. this just blows. last night once I got my node cp I found myself wandering over to shield simulator. climbed as high as healthpacks allowed after some pve play. then I put a 3* team in. I find that much more 'fun' (and more rewarding with iso). I've dropped a couple hundred points and tonight I may go chase some node cp or I might just stick to pvp. there was a time, before LT progression in pve was a thing, when I was pvp only. if this is implemented as-is, I may be pvp-only again. which is a shame, because the iso/hp/cp I was getting from pve was not insignificant. and, if my progress grinds to a crawl again (I mean slower than the crawl it is now), I may just hang em up.

tizian2015

Third node in hells kitchen (easy!):

wolverine lv126
konran lv126
konran lv126

my team:
2* BW (144/boosted212 – not even 7k hp!)
2* CapMarvel(144/b220)
2* Thor(144/b212)

no 3* of my team is boosted (except beast, which i made champion -from lv40- during event because of the covers from tokens) for this event. These are my Chars with the highest levels and i think this is the basis for the scaling. Well, i nearly lost it, bw dead, capmarv 144 hp, thor 2122 hp. I know this combination has very poor synergies, BUT their level is mainly the basis for the difficulty of my scaling in the event. Bw was dead after the first wolverine red in combination with a green (think it was the 3rd round, and she had to tank, because no other matches were possible), konrans red countdowns hit for over 4k (no way to stop them after BW was dead). And now they go up for lv137(konrans) and lvl 138 (wolverine). My boosted full leveled 2* champions probably do not stand a chance against this (i will not „invest“ healthpacks to test). This was no fun!

Problems i see (apart from the others in this thread):
boosting is in the calculating of scaling (boosts should be a help, not a punishment)
champions are in the scaling (same, champion should be a help, not a punishment.)
scaling does not consider the „usefullness“ of a char, just his level (as seen in my fight)
scaling does not consider the *s of a char, so damagenerfed 2* and 3* hit same levels than not nerfed 4*s (as long the 4*s are in the levelrange of 2* and 3*s), which is a BIG gap in making damage, the duration of a fight and so the use of healthpacks.

Warbringa

In defense of wave nodes (and the new format to a lesser degree):

1.) The rewards they give you for clearing them once is usually better in terms of iso than clearing a regular node 7 times (exception maybe are the "easy" three wave nodes -slightly less iso than trivial node cleared 7 times)
2.) They sometimes give you event token (much preferable to a standard token)
3.) They give you the most points in an event by far and under the new format (at least for this PvE since there are so many waves) would be the most effective progression if you are not clearing nodes 6+ times each (which I am not personally) - simply clear the wave nodes 6x each for most points for effort/cost
4.) The Hand wave nodes are by far the most terrible wave nodes and I think the devs messed up by making this event the first test event - I know why they did, they wanted to see the impact of the new system in one of the most difficult environments due to the massive amount of damage Hand, Wolv and Gorgon deal but you only get one chance to make a first impression they say and I think overall it will sit badly in many players minds due to this

I will say this about the new system:
1.) It encourages roster diversity which I think is a big plus as I have used far more team combos in PvE than I ever have due to health pack scarcity
2.) It can be easily tweaked as it is obvious the scaling started too high in all of the nodes but especially with the old trivial nodes
3.) The ability to play whenever you like is a huge plus long-term, right now it may not feel like it as much due to the difficulty but in time people will realize how much of a relief it is
4.) Since the overall difficulty is increasing for most people in this system, they should at least tweak iso rewards to make them reflect such - for example I used to farm all of the trivial nodes for the rewards easily in very little time, I don't know if I will do that going forward with the new scaling - therefore increase all 70 isos to 100, all 200 to 250 and throw in an extra 250 in place of one of the old 70 rewards on the new trivial nodes - in the hard and essential nodes - make sure all nodes have at least one 500 iso reward and ditch the critical boost reward (it is useless devs) and replace it with a 250 iso reward
5.) Progression rewards will need to be closely reviewed as with the new system, people may not make as many clears as they did before for a variety of reasons (that is a whole different post entirely) - you will need to be nimble and listen to the community closely to make sure the progression rewards for 25 CP (the only reason to play PvE) is set reasonably - obviously in this test event it has not been

TxMoose

Warbringa wrote:

1.) It encourages roster diversity which I think is a big plus as I have used far more team combos in PvE than I ever have due to health pack scarcity

I mostly agree with the rest, but I cannot agree with this one. I've tried lots of teams once, but ineffectiveness cannot be repeated without completely emptying my tacos for healthpacks, and adding to the already unreasonable time requirment. so, the characters I've repeatedly used here are pretty sparse: boosted cyke and ice, witch, jean, im40, 4thor. that's it. 6. this does not encourage diversity if you have several champed 4s, especially if a pair of your champs is boosted. anything less than the 'best' risks complete wipeout, and while one wipe isn't a killer, when everything takes so long as it is, any added time basically makes it so tedious I find other things to do.

simonsez

Warbringa wrote:

In defense of wave nodes (and the new format to a lesser degree):

1.) The rewards they give you for clearing them once is usually better

And what about the other 10 times we're supposed to clear them?

san

My TRIVIAL nodes were 321 to start with. Sorry, but even winfinite teams won't survive every time. Too many clears.


I preferred the old system - at least, even if I didn't want to compete, I could at least earn all the rewards (ISO, etc) by doing one full grind. This often left me 300th place or so, but I wanted the ISO and progress rewards, not the rewards from the competitive aspect of it all.

For reference, see my roster in sig.

TLCstormz

I had to sell BOTH of my 5*s, JUST to play this event, because they stressed how important it was for them to get data and feedback from us.

I am so very, very sad. :+(

TheDrStrange

thanos8587 wrote:

Jam_Adams wrote:

after several days of thought and reading this thread:


IF they ever moved to strictly progression based pve awards they could simply do alliance progression awards as is done for galactus/ultron.

I would love this. My alliance is pretty casual, and I think this would get them to play more. As it is right now, they hit a few nodes and do the Daily Deadpool. But when Galactus or Ultron comes around, they ramp up their participation.

fork1977

much has been said already, but let me add my voice to those who say that the 25CP is FAR less achievable, particularly for 7 day events.

Linkster79

I want my roster back!

I have a handful of champed 3*, a few less champed 2*, no cover maxed 4* and a couple of cover maxed but non levelled 3* (ISO shortage not choice). Before in story events I would use the lower (weaker) end of my roster for the easier nodes and as difficulty increased I would move up through my roster accordingly, therefore using (almost) the full width of character I have, sort of like the developers have always emphasised

IceIX wrote:

What we intend, and continue to drill in on is that we want players to have a broad mix of characters instead of a Top 3 that is their sole team to play with.

After initially trying to use that tried and tested method I buckled and just used IM40, 3* Cap and Grey Suit Black Widow for everything not didn't require an essential. Base levels have started way too high, trivial nodes should be beatable using a championed 2* team and they scale up way too quickly. The way scaling takes into account damage taken previously is all wrong as now we either have to complete nodes with next to no damage taken or we just wipe out entirely, especially at what is for me the higher end.

Also I feel it is time to address the issue of just how high the enemy AI gets to. Many moons ago we were told enemy levels can go as high as L395 to help combat pre-nerf Magneto, Ragnorak and Spiderman. Since then there is no single character that allows for an infinite loop of moves so there is no need for the AI levels to go that high. Also it is my firm belief that characters should not be able to be scaled to levels higher than the player can obtain, if the developers feel we should be facing L400+ opponents then make those opponents 4* and not ridiculous 1*, 2* or 3* that have insane health pools and ability/match damage. Sheer weight of numbers does not make a game fun or engaging. I am using super heroes and I want them to feel super and not have some desk analyst walk over my God Of Thunder.

I appreciate the developers trying something new, sometimes things don't pan out. Chalk it up to experience, learn from it and try again in the future.

Twysta

Warbringa

TxMoose wrote:

Warbringa wrote:

1.) It encourages roster diversity which I think is a big plus as I have used far more team combos in PvE than I ever have due to health pack scarcity

I mostly agree with the rest, but I cannot agree with this one. I've tried lots of teams once, but ineffectiveness cannot be repeated without completely emptying my tacos for healthpacks, and adding to the already unreasonable time requirment. so, the characters I've repeatedly used here are pretty sparse: boosted cyke and ice, witch, jean, im40, 4thor. that's it. 6. this does not encourage diversity if you have several champed 4s, especially if a pair of your champs is boosted. anything less than the 'best' risks complete wipeout, and while one wipe isn't a killer, when everything takes so long as it is, any added time basically makes it so tedious I find other things to do.

The issue is that the new system is looking at you as a softcapper Moose. We know you are not but that is the nature for most of 4* players because of the vast difference in character balance and iso issues, you usually max out a handful of 4*. You can only use those characters because you don't have a large field of 4* based on your roster when I looked which kills you because of the scaling from those top 4* and most of your 3* won't be of much help with the scaling you are probably facing. I can see why it isn't working for you, me on the other hand since I mainly use 3*, I can put together lots of playable teams with my scaling. So the issue is, does the new system actually encourage leveling up your characters evenly (or softcapping for those who did primarily for ease of PvE play) even though the new system was meant to do the opposite in our minds as players? Obviously PvP doesn't reward this strategy but as highlighted above from IceX post by another poster, it does seem like one of the primary goals of the devs was to force you to use more team combinations in PvE. Currently crafted the common 4* strategy of leveling up only the power 5 4* characters appears to have fallen into the devs view of softcapping.

The real issue is that the player's view of softcapping and the devs view of softcapping I think are two entirely different views.

Zombionicdoom

These changes, if they remain, have totally ruined PVE for me. I have a job and a family to support and the little spare time I had I would play the PVE as I could fit the 24 hour schedule and 8 hour clears around my non MPQ life. Now it seems all you need to compete is all the time in the world and a fat roster.

I came 3rd in the Simulator, my best ever position and as I scrolled through the rosters of my competition in the top 10 I thought what a great game that I, 3* player, could be next to 4/5* players and even a 1/2* player, the system worked and it was a great leveller. You could compete to get top 10 with careful planning and the right team.

As soon as I started playing EOTS on the first day there were already players with 16000 points at the top, how the hell am I meant to compete with that with only an hour of play I could squeeze in. It's ridiculous.

That coupled with the removal of easier nodes, which in my opinion I'd earned the right to sail through a couple of easy nodes after a year of playing, levelling up and roster building, made the experience utterly soul destroying and not fun.

This is fundamentally not the game I put my hard earned cash into. And this sentiment is echoed by my entire alliance.

The game was not broken, why have you broken it and made it impossible for anyone with a life outside of MPQ to compete? The removal of the 8 hour schedule has not added freedom for players it's put them in shackles and doomed them to grind for hours at a time. I implore the developers to reverse these changes.

irwando

TLCstormz wrote:

I had to sell BOTH of my 5*s, JUST to play this event, because they stressed how important it was for them to get data and feedback from us.

I am so very, very sad. :+(

Thanks for valuing the test over your own roster, but yeah, not something I would have done. Just a test and likely not to be implemented in its current form.

tizian2015

Another result:

hells kitchen node 5 (most wanted)

Shinobi 158/159 wolverine 159

My team:
Beast lv261 IF lv168 3*Magneto lv170

This is my A-Team in the waves before hells kitchen in this event. So maybe not the optimum (but my strongest 3*s), but it was working. Then this node came.
Result: Beast dead, IF dead, magneto made it with 4100 hp. Its not only an scaling issue, its goons which generate red and an overpowered wolverine is ready in round 3 to attack with his red. Please tell me, what to do. 1 Healthpack ok, 2 Healthpacks moderate/bad going, but three healthpacks for one clear (which was the „easiest“ since the levels raised after the match by 15) and gives 250 iso (and amazing-fun-448-points). So i have 1 healthpack=83 iso. Wow! Maybe i switch to simulator to get hammered by funny 4* teams. I repeat: I regret every penny spent for this game, which punishes progress.

Xzasxz

Hell's Kitchen, 3rd node: Listen Up. First clear. EASY(!) node. Wolvie gets 4 red every turn for free. Just like that. Are u serious?! You call it easy?! When it will 7th clear what then? What if he gets even one red match? What if he gets one red cascade? Instant kill? This is the 3rd node, not the last one! If this is going to continue like this, I'm out. I mean it.

Seceond thing. 4 days gone, 3 to go. From 156k points required to earn 25 CP I am at 65k. Over 90k to grind and I am in top 50 atm. I did at least 6-7 clears each sub (except waves, which I did less), playing 5+ hrs a day. Is it going not to be enough?!

snlf25

You've got a shot, but a damn slim one. The last three days are going to be complete Gorgon hell. You think wolverine sucks? It's about to get a whole lot worse.