ETA on spidey/mags nerfs?

NorthernPolarity

Its been a while since funbalencing changes have been posted, and i was wondering when when these changes would actually come.

Nonce Equitaur 2

IceIX wrote:

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

IceIX ... How about other issues?
3. When will we see buffs/nerfs for the characters mentioned as in line for buffs/nerfs 2 months ago?

3. They're on hold while we rethink how we want to roll these out. I've been heavily pushing for buffs to balance the nerfs whenever possible and the resulting internal conversations on overall character design philosophy has set timelines back a bit.

So sayeth IceIX.

By the way, I did like the recent minor Captain America buff. Thanks for getting that in. I'd be interested in hearing if that had much effect. I'd like to see more minor buffs like that one -- tweak, and see what happens.

Nerfs should be done the same way. Magneto's Red, for example, something will happen to it. Try adding +1 to AP, but increase damage by 50%. Signal that this won't be the final change -- his magnetic power is in flux, and will change more. Magneto's power changing several times over the next few months would be more interesting than a sudden change.

Phaserhawk

I think the problem they are having is that if they nerf these guys the way they want to, it kills their functionality. Spiderman has no direct damage, you reduce his stuns (it is needed) and you have nothing, he is so depenent on making webitles you either have to completely rework him or give him damage to conincide with losing utility. Mangeto is the same way but in a much better spot, at least if they increase his costs they can buff his damage, you can't do that with spiderman.

DD-The-Mighty

Phaserhawk wrote:

I think the problem they are having is that if they nerf these guys the way they want to, it kills their functionality. Spider-man has no direct damage, you reduce his stuns (it is needed) and you have nothing, he is so dependent on making webitles you either have to completely rework him or give him damage to coincide with losing utility. Magneto is the same way but in a much better spot, at least if they increase his costs they can buff his damage, you can't do that with spider-man.

What i think most players want, is for them to approach buffs with the same aggressive nature tht they do with nerfs.
Wolverine was a straight neutering, but Thor was a more thought out rework. His overall dps was down big time but they reevaluated where his damage was going to come from and with a 4/5/4 (or 3/5/5) build those without a GBW, can have a character that isn't competing with red to deal big damage, and has the HP to get there. Imagine if they took that kind of ground-up thinking to Caps major weak point: His yellow.

Hopefully they will make mags AP requirement closer to what it is with a 1/1/1 build. 6ap red under the current ap metagame is fast. 3 is broken.
I feel the same for Spidey. the only thing that needs curbing is his blue, lock it in at 6ap and let the ranks determine how many times the stuns stack, as opposed to the current lowering the ap count. But i fear d3's real target will be the yellow, which i think would suck on their part.

Unknown

Well for sure the 2-3 ap skills will be changed to a 5 minimum. Rags was ridiculous at 2 ap for a red spam green generator. He's...ok now. Mostly good as a tank and not terribly much more.

We can expect then that the lowest cost will be 5 but chances are 6-8.

Unknown

Saint Matthew wrote:

Well for sure the 2-3 ap skills will be changed to a 5 minimum. Rags was ridiculous at 2 ap for a red spam green generator. He's...ok now. Mostly good as a tank and not terribly much more.

We can expect then that the lowest cost will be 5 but chances are 6-8.

If Rag had a reasonable second ability or (get this) a third ability (I know right!) he would be pretty good.

Unknown

bonerang wrote:

Saint Matthew wrote:

Well for sure the 2-3 ap skills will be changed to a 5 minimum. Rags was ridiculous at 2 ap for a red spam green generator. He's...ok now. Mostly good as a tank and not terribly much more.

We can expect then that the lowest cost will be 5 but chances are 6-8.

If Rag had a reasonable second ability or (get this) a third ability (I know right!) he would be pretty good.

If his green would generate AP then he would once again be a top tier pick.

Pwuz_

Generating AP while board changing is ripe for abuse. Rags could use a nice passive 3rd ability to make up for the nerf. As he stands, I don't think I would use him ever.

Unknown

Ragnarok's green is still very good. Shattering 16 tiles is a very reliable way to generate more AP, even if you've no idea what kind you'll get. The problem with his green is that there's a whole mess of awesome green skills in the game so when compared to other green users, his green isn't really that much better (if at all) and he obviously suffers from only having two skills. If Godlike is yellow, he'd be a much more powerful character compared to right now. It's sort of like how Loki and Dr. Doom are borderline usable because they have skills that are usually dead colors for most teams. In fact I'm going to guess once the overpowered stuff are nerfed, green is likely the strongest color in the game.

For Magneto, his blue and red can cost 3 times of what they currently do while doing exactly the same thing, and he'd still be a usable character.

TheVulture

Phantron wrote:

Ragnarok's green is still very good. Shattering 16 tiles is a very reliable way to generate more AP, even if you've no idea what kind you'll get. The problem with his green is that there's a whole mess of awesome green skills in the game so when compared to other green users, his green isn't really that much better (if at all) and he obviously suffers from only having two skills. If Godlike is yellow, he'd be a much more powerful character compared to right now. It's sort of like how Loki and Dr. Doom are borderline usable because they have skills that are usually dead colors for most teams. In fact I'm going to guess once the overpowered stuff are nerfed, green is likely the strongest color in the game.

For Magneto, his blue and red can cost 3 times of what they currently do while doing exactly the same thing, and he'd still be a usable character.

"Very good might" be a bit generous; it's exactly the same effect as 1* Juggernaut's Unstoppable Crash, only the 16 tiles are selected differently.
And for 4 AP more 1* Storm's Lightning Strike lets players keep the AP from the 16 shattered tiles!
Those are amongst the best 1* powers, but for a 3* character whose covers are 12 times as expensive it's reasonable to expect Ragnorak's power to be either better or at least equal to the far superior of the two (Lightning Strike).

If Godlike Power was raised to 10 AP but generated AP from the centre tiles like Lightning Strike, he'd be a top tier character for sure.

bahamut685

TheVulture wrote:

Phantron wrote:

Ragnarok's green is still very good. Shattering 16 tiles is a very reliable way to generate more AP, even if you've no idea what kind you'll get. The problem with his green is that there's a whole mess of awesome green skills in the game so when compared to other green users, his green isn't really that much better (if at all) and he obviously suffers from only having two skills. If Godlike is yellow, he'd be a much more powerful character compared to right now. It's sort of like how Loki and Dr. Doom are borderline usable because they have skills that are usually dead colors for most teams. In fact I'm going to guess once the overpowered stuff are nerfed, green is likely the strongest color in the game.

For Magneto, his blue and red can cost 3 times of what they currently do while doing exactly the same thing, and he'd still be a usable character.

"Very good might" be a bit generous; it's exactly the same effect as 1* Juggernaut's Unstoppable Crash, only the 16 tiles are selected differently.
And for 4 AP more 1* Storm's Lightning Strike lets players keep the AP from the 16 shattered tiles!
Those are amongst the best 1* powers, but for a 3* character whose covers are 12 times as expensive it's reasonable to expect Ragnorak's power to be either better or at least equal to the far superior of the two (Lightning Strike).

If Godlike Power was raised to 10 AP but generated AP from the centre tiles like Lightning Strike, he'd be a top tier character for sure.

Because it targets specific tiles, I think they'd probably make it cost 18 or 16 and drop by 1 for each additional level (so end at 14 or 12). [if they did make it gather ap]

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

For Magneto, his blue and red can cost 3 times of what they currently do while doing exactly the same thing, and he'd still be a usable character.

I cannot agree for the Red power. Its sole purpose is to be spammable. If it was, say 6 ap, no one would be using it. I do agree with the Blue, raising it in cost might let us use it as originally intended, protection.

Unknown

I have a 5/3/5 C Mag. I only use his red if nobody else on my team has a useful red. It's really not that useful since it does like 2-300 damage and you need a cascade for any AP generation.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Here's a nerf on Magneto's red that would also be quite awesome.

Magnetized Projectile - Red 7 AP
Magneto propels magnetized projectiles at his enemies, destroying 1 chosen tile (gaining AP) and dealing an extra 21 damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals 34 extra damage Level 3: Choose 2 tiles. Level 4: Deals 45 extra damage. Level 5: Choose 3 tiles.

Max Level: 300 extra damage

Currently, Magneto is the best board surgeon. Something like the above would remove the spammability of his 2AP red, but would enhance his board surgery skill.

Unknown

That would be a good skill actually. So far, other than a gravity warp with no special tiles on the board, we don't have an ability that lets you surgically remove a tile (as opposed to making matches like deceptive tactics/polarity shift).

Allowing him to surgically remove certain tiles would be a valuable skill.

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

Here's a nerf on Magneto's red that would also be quite awesome.

Magnetized Projectile - Red 7 AP
Magneto propels magnetized projectiles at his enemies, destroying 1 chosen tile (gaining AP) and dealing an extra 21 damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals 34 extra damage Level 3: Choose 2 tiles. Level 4: Deals 45 extra damage. Level 5: Choose 3 tiles.

Max Level: 300 extra damage

Currently, Magneto is the best board surgeon. Something like the above would remove the spammability of his 2AP red, but would enhance his board surgery skill.

Devs, here is exactly how the red power should be when you funbalance Mags.

Nonce Equitaur 2

After Looking at various boards, I've decided I made his proposed power way too powerful. Being able to destroy 3 countdown tiles for 7 AP would be too much power. An ability to remove 3 basic tiles would still be quite surgical, and the 3AP gained (probably more if it triggers matches) would often be useful. He'd be able to affect the board around a countdown tile, and he'd still have his blue power.

Magnetized Projectile - Red 7 AP
Magneto propels magnetized projectiles at his enemies, destroying 1 basic chosen tile (gaining AP) and dealing an extra 21 damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals 34 extra damage Level 3: Choose 2 tiles. Level 4: Deals 45 extra damage. Level 5: Choose 3 tiles.

Max Level: 300 extra damage

Unknown

Nonce Equitaur 2 wrote:

After Looking at various boards, I've decided I made his proposed power way too powerful. Being able to destroy 3 countdown tiles for 7 AP would be too much power. An ability to remove 3 basic tiles would still be quite surgical, and the 3AP gained (probably more if it triggers matches) would often be useful. He'd be able to affect the board around a countdown tile, and he'd still have his blue power.

Magnetized Projectile - Red 7 AP
Magneto propels magnetized projectiles at his enemies, destroying 1 basic chosen tile (gaining AP) and dealing an extra 21 damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals 34 extra damage Level 3: Choose 2 tiles. Costs 9 AP. Level 4: Deals 45 extra damage. Level 5: Choose 3 tiles. Costs 12 AP.

Max Level: 300 extra damage

Pretty much, this.

The baseline assumption here would assume that you are using the skill to generate AP, if not taking out a CD/Strike/Attack tile.

To avoid the exploits, choosing additional surgical strikes would have to result in an increase in ability cost, as suggested here.

Nonce Equitaur 2

Magnetized Projectile - Red 7 AP
Magneto propels magnetized projectiles at his enemies, destroying 1 basic chosen tile (gaining AP) and dealing an extra 21 damage.
Level Upgrades

Level 2: Deals 34 extra damage Level 3: Choose 1 or 2 tiles. Costs 7 or 9 AP. Level 4: Deals 45 extra damage. Level 5: Choose 1, 2, or 3 tiles. Costs 7, 9, or 11 AP.

Max Level: 300 extra damage

I made a tweak to the suggested change.

Unknown

Something that destroys 1 chosen tile would need to cost about 10 even if it did nothing else just because this ability neutralizes every CD/special tile skill in the game. Seriously, Magneto's skills are so overpowered that it's making you think these 'nerfs' are even sensible skills. All his skills can be 1/3 as effective as they're right now and they'd still be pretty good overall. If it cost 6 red AP and did exactly the same thing, it'd be about as good as Thunderous Clap used in most circumstances in terms of tile destruction, and nobody really cares about the damage on Thunderous Clap.

Both Storm's green are grossly overpowered. If Modern Storm had even 2* level HP she'd be overpowered. They had to keep Storm's HP at some ridiculously low level to prevent her from widely used, so comparing Godlike to a green skill that seems to be purposely made unusable in a competitive enviornment (and even though people still often rock out a 1000 HP Modern Storm in PvP and PvE) is not fair. Godlike destroying 16 tiles in a predictable way is generally a positive (so you can try to setup situations good for it). It can't dig out a special tile that isn't in the 2 center columns, but that's offset by that column drops are generally extremely favorable, probably because the game tends to try to replace the lost colors so the chance of getting a match 4 from a column drop is better than a match 4 from 8 random tiles.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

Something that destroys 1 chosen tile would need to cost about 10 even if it did nothing else just because this ability neutralizes every CD/special tile skill in the game. Seriously, Magneto's skills are so overpowered that it's making you think these 'nerfs' are even sensible skills. All his skills can be 1/3 as effective as they're right now and they'd still be pretty good overall. If it cost 6 red AP and did exactly the same thing, it'd be about as good as Thunderous Clap used in most circumstances in terms of tile destruction, and nobody really cares about the damage on Thunderous Clap.

Both Storm's green are grossly overpowered. If Modern Storm had even 2* level HP she'd be overpowered. They had to keep Storm's HP at some ridiculously low level to prevent her from widely used. Godlike destroying 16 tiles in a predictable way is generally a positive (so you can try to setup situations good for it). It can't dig out a special tile that isn't in the 2 center columns, but that's offset by that column drops are generally extremely favorable, probably because the game tends to try to replace the lost colors so the chance of getting a match 4 from a column drop is better than a match 4 from 8 random tiles.

You could just establish that a surgical tile destruction can't be used on a CD/special tile, in the same way that Deceptive/Polarity can't change CDs or special tiles.