Who ya want fixed?

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  • Nobody.

    Chess would be terrible if every piece was a rook.

    People shouldn't be rewarded for making mistakes. If my opponent sacrifices a rook to save a pawn and later in the match the tourney director changed my opponents pawn into a rook because they complained that the pawn isn't as good as a rook i'd be furious.

    Besides, every character in the Marvel universe isn't equal in power and some characters powers are a complete joke. Like Squirrel Girl for example should be bad and i'm thankful that she is. Just because a character isn't as strong as another doesn't mean they are broken and need to be "fixed".
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Enslaved wrote:
    Nobody.

    Chess would be terrible if every piece was a rook.

    People shouldn't be rewarded for making mistakes. If my opponent sacrifices a rook to save a pawn and later in the match the tourney director changed my opponents pawn into a rook because they complained that the pawn isn't as good as a rook i'd be furious.

    Besides, every character in the Marvel universe isn't equal in power and some characters powers are a complete joke. Like Squirrel Girl for example should be bad and i'm thankful that she is. Just because a character isn't as strong as another doesn't mean they are broken and need to be "fixed".
    So if MPQ is chess if I use Squirrel Girl against you and she is a pawn in your book, when I hit you with Fury Friends shouldn't she be able to upgrade to my strongest character?

    Every character should be playable and have a solid fit. There are some characters like Rags, Collosus, Spider-Man that can be adjusted to become more playable. In 4* land Cho, Star lord, and IW need some tweets or overhauls to be better than the majority of 3*. If someone levels any 4* that 4* should be at least a top 3 3* character. That is not the case in the game today.
  • alphabeta
    alphabeta Posts: 469 Mover and Shaker
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    Enslaved wrote:
    Nobody.

    Chess would be terrible if every piece was a rook.

    People shouldn't be rewarded for making mistakes. If my opponent sacrifices a rook to save a pawn and later in the match the tourney director changed my opponents pawn into a rook because they complained that the pawn isn't as good as a rook i'd be furious.

    Besides, every character in the Marvel universe isn't equal in power and some characters powers are a complete joke. Like Squirrel Girl for example should be bad and i'm thankful that she is. Just because a character isn't as strong as another doesn't mean they are broken and need to be "fixed".

    Your analogy is wrong - player can't control who they will be given by a token - any 4* is supposed equivalent to a knight or a bishop and drawing Cho is like being told at the start of the match that although both players have the same pieces your bishop can only move one space at a time while everyone else's can continue to move along their axis as many spaces as they want.

    They should be reworked so that 3*s are better than 2*s and 4*s are better than 3*s - there should absolutely be a range within the *s but some of the characters mentioned on this thread are atleast 1 * below their rating - I can't think I'd ever be concerned going up against a maxed champ Cho with even a decent 3* roster.
  • wymtime wrote:
    So if MPQ is chess if I use Squirrel Girl against you and she is a pawn in your book, when I hit you with Fury Friends shouldn't she be able to upgrade to my strongest character?

    Every character should be playable and have a solid fit. There are some characters like Rags, Collosus, Spider-Man that can be adjusted to become more playable. In 4* land Cho, Star lord, and IW need some tweets or overhauls to be better than the majority of 3*. If someone levels any 4* that 4* should be at least a top 3 3* character. That is not the case in the game today.

    The chess analogy was used to illustrate that a pawn is integrally important to the overall quality of the gameplay and perfectly capable of beating the queen despite being vastly inferior in power. I didn't mean MPQ was literally chess. *rolls eyes*

    In MPQ all of the characters are playable and the worst characters within the tiers can and do beat the best ones under normal playing conditions.
    They do fit and already serve a purpose. You said it yourself, what you want is "more playable" which means "stronger" which is completely self-serving and has nothing to do with the health of the game itself.
    alphabeta wrote:
    Your analogy is wrong - player can't control who they will be given by a token - any 4* is supposed equivalent to a knight or a bishop and drawing Cho is like being told at the start of the match that although both players have the same pieces your bishop can only move one space at a time while everyone else's can continue to move along their axis as many spaces as they want.

    They should be reworked so that 3*s are better than 2*s and 4*s are better than 3*s - there should absolutely be a range within the *s but some of the characters mentioned on this thread are atleast 1 * below their rating - I can't think I'd ever be concerned going up against a maxed champ Cho with even a decent 3* roster.

    Your perception of the players control over their own team is what is wrong. If you pull Cho from a token you are not forced to recruit him, you are not forced to spend any resources on Cho and you are never forced to bring Cho into a match even if you had. If you did any of these things it was your own choice and if you aren't happy with the result of those choices it is your own fault.

    Also in regards to characters power in different tiers. The devs have said time and time again that the star rating has no relation to the characters power in the Marvel universe or in MPQ. It is purely there to signify the rarity of the characters. So no the worst 4* shouldn't necessarily be better than the best 3*.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Enslaved wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    So if MPQ is chess if I use Squirrel Girl against you and she is a pawn in your book, when I hit you with Fury Friends shouldn't she be able to upgrade to my strongest character?

    Every character should be playable and have a solid fit. There are some characters like Rags, Collosus, Spider-Man that can be adjusted to become more playable. In 4* land Cho, Star lord, and IW need some tweets or overhauls to be better than the majority of 3*. If someone levels any 4* that 4* should be at least a top 3 3* character. That is not the case in the game today.

    The chess analogy was used to illustrate that a pawn is integrally important to the overall quality of the gameplay and perfectly capable of beating the queen despite being vastly inferior in power. I didn't mean MPQ was literally chess. *rolls eyes*

    In MPQ all of the characters are playable and the worst characters within the tiers can and do beat the best ones under normal playing conditions.
    They do fit and already serve a purpose. You said it yourself, what you want is "more playable" which means "stronger" which is completely self-serving and has nothing to do with the health of the game itself.

    First I got your chess analogy and decided to troll you a little bit. icon_e_surprised.gif
    As far as the worst characters in each tier beating the best in the lower tier that in my opinion is not true. Look at he DPDQ of Mr F. Doom was destroying Mr. F. Other 4* like HB 4Thor were a cake walk. Look at X-Force vs Cyclops. Cyclops does massive damage and can take many 4* even at level 270.
    the issue is there are some characters that are so outclassed that they are not used by the majority of players. Look at Spider-Man. I use him only in Enemy of the State for survival nodes. I use his protect tile for Falcon, and his stun for wolvie rinse when he comes out and that is it. His yellow is bad, and there are now much better characters who can stun an opponent and do damage there is not much reason o use him. By asking the buff this character I am telling he developers I want to use this character more, but his power set does not fit into the way I feel the game is played today. He is too situational and because of that I feel he is worth looking into which will make the character more diverse and useful to more people. This whole thread is a wY for people to say pull like to use character X more and if his powers were better I would. The health of the game is fine, but no game should have characters that a lot of players choose to sell instead of roster, or if they have roster end never use unless essential. The Dev's put a lot of work into these characters and I am sure hey would like to see more players actually enjoy using some of the characters they created.
    This is an opportunity to say who you would like to use more. If that is selfish in your mind maybe you should look at another topic.
  • Marvelfamily
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    She-Hulk.

    Her green on max level should be able to get on the enemy's strongest color. Maybe with a add like "if the team has more than x tiles (maybe team tiles)"...

    Her red is her attack ability, but for a character with her high health, it's bad.

    Psylocke

    Just like others wrote. She is a good one and a good one should kick ****. Her blue is....... meh.

    IM40

    ... you know why. His blue is too expensive. Bring it down on, let's say, 15 AP.


    Hulk 3*

    I avoid using his red because it hurts the team most of the time (my own of course). Reduce the damage on the own team, and it's okay.

    Ragnarok

    His green is the 2nd ability I won't use like Hulks red. Why does it hurt the own team? He was designed to be a 'better Thor', right? Reduce the team damage. That is old-school.
  • Marvelfamily
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    Squirrel Girl isn't bad. She's very strong against tile makers. Her purple becomes stronger if there are special tiles on board. Her green is nice, because it shuffles the board and when countdown ends, it brings the enemy at the gates of hell icon_e_wink.gif

    And - she's sweet. I like her.
  • alphabeta
    alphabeta Posts: 469 Mover and Shaker
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    Enslaved wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    So if MPQ is chess if I use Squirrel Girl against you and she is a pawn in your book, when I hit you with Fury Friends shouldn't she be able to upgrade to my strongest character?

    Every character should be playable and have a solid fit. There are some characters like Rags, Collosus, Spider-Man that can be adjusted to become more playable. In 4* land Cho, Star lord, and IW need some tweets or overhauls to be better than the majority of 3*. If someone levels any 4* that 4* should be at least a top 3 3* character. That is not the case in the game today.

    The chess analogy was used to illustrate that a pawn is integrally important to the overall quality of the gameplay and perfectly capable of beating the queen despite being vastly inferior in power. I didn't mean MPQ was literally chess. *rolls eyes*

    In MPQ all of the characters are playable and the worst characters within the tiers can and do beat the best ones under normal playing conditions.
    They do fit and already serve a purpose. You said it yourself, what you want is "more playable" which means "stronger" which is completely self-serving and has nothing to do with the health of the game itself.
    alphabeta wrote:
    Your analogy is wrong - player can't control who they will be given by a token - any 4* is supposed equivalent to a knight or a bishop and drawing Cho is like being told at the start of the match that although both players have the same pieces your bishop can only move one space at a time while everyone else's can continue to move along their axis as many spaces as they want.

    They should be reworked so that 3*s are better than 2*s and 4*s are better than 3*s - there should absolutely be a range within the *s but some of the characters mentioned on this thread are atleast 1 * below their rating - I can't think I'd ever be concerned going up against a maxed champ Cho with even a decent 3* roster.

    Your perception of the players control over their own team is what is wrong. If you pull Cho from a token you are not forced to recruit him, you are not forced to spend any resources on Cho and you are never forced to bring Cho into a match even if you had. If you did any of these things it was your own choice and if you aren't happy with the result of those choices it is your own fault.

    Also in regards to characters power in different tiers. The devs have said time and time again that the star rating has no relation to the characters power in the Marvel universe or in MPQ. It is purely there to signify the rarity of the characters. So no the worst 4* shouldn't necessarily be better than the best 3*.

    Except essential characters do force you to hold and use characters to place highly. Yes I could opt out but if you accept the premise is to compete that not an option because someone else will always have him - the nature of the game forces the holding of useless characters which dissatisfies the customer base - ergo it's just good business sense to not piss off the people who pay your wages.

    If you don't see need to recruit cho how does it hurt you if he's reworked to be useful (or any of the other characters listed - thread has some good suggestions).
  • wymtime wrote:
    First I got your chess analogy and decided to troll you a little bit. icon_e_surprised.gif
    As far as the worst characters in each tier beating the best in the lower tier that in my opinion is not true. Look at he DPDQ of Mr F. Doom was destroying Mr. F. Other 4* like HB 4Thor were a cake walk. Look at X-Force vs Cyclops. Cyclops does massive damage and can take many 4* even at level 270.
    the issue is there are some characters that are so outclassed that they are not used by the majority of players. Look at Spider-Man. I use him only in Enemy of the State for survival nodes. I use his protect tile for Falcon, and his stun for wolvie rinse when he comes out and that is it. His yellow is bad, and there are now much better characters who can stun an opponent and do damage there is not much reason o use him. By asking the buff this character I am telling he developers I want to use this character more, but his power set does not fit into the way I feel the game is played today. He is too situational and because of that I feel he is worth looking into which will make the character more diverse and useful to more people. This whole thread is a wY for people to say pull like to use character X more and if his powers were better I would. The health of the game is fine, but no game should have characters that a lot of players choose to sell instead of roster, or if they have roster end never use unless essential. The Dev's put a lot of work into these characters and I am sure hey would like to see more players actually enjoy using some of the characters they created.
    This is an opportunity to say who you would like to use more. If that is selfish in your mind maybe you should look at another topic.

    My opinion on this subject is perfectly valid and you were the one that attacked me first and have now even admitted to trolling and yet I should leave?
    What if I said that my favorite character is Yelena Belova and that its a shame that I have to use Old Man Logan all the time so Yelena should be buffed into stronger than OML so i can be using her instead.
    Also while we're at it we should start a petition to make Magikarp stronger than Mewtwo not cause of any gameplay concerns or anything but because Magikarp is my fav Pokemon.
    Would you then agree my presence is more than welcome in this topic?

    Further your DDQ example only emphasizes my point further. Nearly any character can beat nearly any other character under many circumstances and conditions proving there is nothing inherently wrong with them.
    You can use anybody you want anytime you want to beat anybody you want, its just you may be able to do so more effectively with someone else.
    Nobody is stopping you from using Spider-Man in every fight and hes perfectly capable of beating any character in the game.
    For example a lvl266 champ 3* spidey would obliterate a 0/0/1 Old Man Logan and it wouldn't even be a close fight, spidey wins in a landslide.
    alphabeta wrote:
    Except essential characters do force you to hold and use characters to place highly. Yes I could opt out but if you accept the premise is to compete that not an option because someone else will always have him - the nature of the game forces the holding of useless characters which dissatisfies the customer base - ergo it's just good business sense to not piss off the people who pay your wages.

    If you don't see need to recruit cho how does it hurt you if he's reworked to be useful (or any of the other characters listed - thread has some good suggestions).

    The essentials for PVE is another issue entirely and could be addressed with free loaners like they do in PVP without the need to change a bunch of characters.
    Making Cho better wouldn't hurt me but it would hurt every other character in the game because they would be incidentally nerfed and thats a practice I don't like or want in MPQ and I think most would agree since you don't see anyone talking about "fixing" good characters by nerfing them in this topic now do you?
  • cyineedsn
    cyineedsn Posts: 361 Mover and Shaker
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    Enslaved wrote:
    What if I said that my favorite character is Yelena Belova and that its a shame that I have to use Old Man Logan all the time so Yelena should be buffed into stronger than OML so i can be using her instead.

    Um, I think the idea is that people want characters that are comparable in power level to other characters in their respective * tiers. An analogy comparing a 1* character to 5* is uh... I don't even know how we got here to be honest.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,757 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Enslaved wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    First I got your chess analogy and decided to troll you a little bit. icon_e_surprised.gif
    As far as the worst characters in each tier beating the best in the lower tier that in my opinion is not true. Look at he DPDQ of Mr F. Doom was destroying Mr. F. Other 4* like HB 4Thor were a cake walk. Look at X-Force vs Cyclops. Cyclops does massive damage and can take many 4* even at level 270.
    the issue is there are some characters that are so outclassed that they are not used by the majority of players. Look at Spider-Man. I use him only in Enemy of the State for survival nodes. I use his protect tile for Falcon, and his stun for wolvie rinse when he comes out and that is it. His yellow is bad, and there are now much better characters who can stun an opponent and do damage there is not much reason o use him. By asking the buff this character I am telling he developers I want to use this character more, but his power set does not fit into the way I feel the game is played today. He is too situational and because of that I feel he is worth looking into which will make the character more diverse and useful to more people. This whole thread is a wY for people to say pull like to use character X more and if his powers were better I would. The health of the game is fine, but no game should have characters that a lot of players choose to sell instead of roster, or if they have roster end never use unless essential. The Dev's put a lot of work into these characters and I am sure hey would like to see more players actually enjoy using some of the characters they created.
    This is an opportunity to say who you would like to use more. If that is selfish in your mind maybe you should look at another topic.

    My opinion on this subject is perfectly valid and you were the one that attacked me first and have now even admitted to trolling and yet I should leave?
    What if I said that my favorite character is Yelena Belova and that its a shame that I have to use Old Man Logan all the time so Yelena should be buffed into stronger than OML so i can be using her instead.
    Also while we're at it we should start a petition to make Magikarp stronger than Mewtwo not cause of any gameplay concerns or anything but because Magikarp is my fav Pokemon.
    Would you then agree my presence is more than welcome in this topic?

    Further your DDQ example only emphasizes my point further. Nearly any character can beat nearly any other character under many circumstances and conditions proving there is nothing inherently wrong with them.
    You can use anybody you want anytime you want to beat anybody you want, its just you may be able to do so more effectively with someone else.
    Nobody is stopping you from using Spider-Man in every fight and hes perfectly capable of beating any character in the game.
    For example a lvl266 champ 3* spidey would obliterate a 0/0/1 Old Man Logan and it wouldn't even be a close fight, spidey wins in a landslide.
    first you need to stop taking things so personal and think I am attacking you. Admire the thought and sarcasm that went into my post instead.
    2nd yes if you do not want to suggest a character gets buffed this topic is not for you. This specific thread was set up by the op for people to suggest characters that they want buffed. It seems you do not so this topic does not seem right for you.
    Third the fact that you think 3* spidey would destroy OML you are wrong. OML match damage alone would make this a tough fight And you are not even giving him an ability to use. A 0,1,1 OML or a 1,1,1 OML at base level would beat spidey. the only advantage Spider-Man has is the player setting up the AI for bad moves.
    The Hulk PVP is a perfect example of the buffed characters not being up to snuff. Falcon is buffed this week and I promise I will see significantly more unbuffed 4* then falcon. I have seen unbuffed 3* cyclops then falcon. Falcon has his place in the game, but on the scale he is in the lower 1/3 of 3*. If they Dev's decided hey wanted him to be used more they would buff him or nerf others.
    Lastly If you like Yelena and want to use her more post about why you feel she deserves to be buffed instead of telling everyone else they are wrong for wanting some of their favorite characters to be more useful.
  • cyineedsn wrote:

    Um, I think the idea is that people want characters that are comparable in power level to other characters in their respective * tiers. An analogy comparing a 1* character to 5* is uh... I don't even know how we got here to be honest.

    Well the idea was to use the most extreme example possible, videlicet my use of sarcasm would be so obvious that I wouldn't need to explain my use of another common literary device.
    Alas, it appears my efforts were in vain.
    wymtime wrote:
    Third the fact that you think 3* spidey would destroy OML you are wrong. OML match damage alone would make this a tough fight And you are not even giving him an ability to use.

    If you think its even remotely plausible to lose via match damage from a lvl255 with no active powers when you have higher match damage with a lvl266, a 5ap stun, a powerful healing ability and passive defense tiles that are a direct counter to the only way your opponent can hurt you then you are beyond terrible at this game.
    That would explain a lot however.
    wymtime wrote:
    The Hulk PVP is a perfect example of the buffed characters not being up to snuff.

    I disagree completely. Thor, Khan and Black Panther make 3/5 buffed 3*s that are fantastic in PVP, Falcon has his use in PVE and Ragnarok is the perfect example of why changing characters is bad for the game as he used to be the best 3* before he was nerfed and now look at him.
    The other tiers are fine too, Spider-Man and Black Widow are two of the best 1*s, Hawkeye and Wolverine are above average 2*s and Carnage and Miles are both really good 4*s.
    So what, Falcon not being good in PVP is your one gripe that proves that characters need buffed? If everyone was made to be good then nobody would be good, see my chess analogy for that one.
    wymtime wrote:
    Lastly If you like Yelena and want to use her more post about why you feel she deserves to be buffed instead of telling everyone else they are wrong for wanting some of their favorite characters to be more useful.

    You seem to be having trouble comprehending my position on this matter so let me try and be as clear as possible one last time.
    Liking a character is not a good reason for them to be buffed and taking the noble stance that you want to fix characters that are broken is utter nonsense since we've all wiped to Ragnarok.
    Every character in the Marvel Universe has its fans and would want their personal favorites to be good.
    So you're either endorsing only your own personal favorites to be good and to hell with everyone else which would be very selfish or you want Demiurge to appease everyone, whereby the end result would be all characters being uniform.
    Either way that's not a game I want to play.
  • grunzadin
    grunzadin Posts: 52 Match Maker
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    Enslaved wrote:
    If you think its even remotely plausible to lose via match damage from a lvl255 with no active powers when you have higher match damage with a lvl266

    5* match damage at 255 is in the hundreds. It is much higher than 3-4* match damage at the same level.
  • Eddiemon
    Eddiemon Posts: 1,470 Chairperson of the Boards
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    Ragnarok

    His green is the 2nd ability I won't use like Hulks red. Why does it hurt the own team? He was designed to be a 'better Thor', right? Reduce the team damage. That is old-school.

    He was only design to be a 'better Thor' in the sense that Thor was dead and a psychotic cyborg/clone was considered better than having no Thor at all. For some strange value of 'better'. His biggest claim to fame apart from the Thor clone bit was blowing a hole in another hero's chest and killing them. So there is at least some appropriateness there.
  • cyineedsn
    cyineedsn Posts: 361 Mover and Shaker
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    Is it just me or has this thread devolved into a bunch of strawman arguments
  • alaeth wrote:
    :star:star.pngicon_moonstone.png (Moonstone) - way too situational as a 2*, she needs more "generality" obviously
    star.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_vision.png (Vision) - the abilities are cool, but the fact that the AI cannot play him effectively makes him not worth the ISO to invest
    star.pngstar.pngstar.pngstar.pngicon_elektra.png (Elektra) - the first 4* I got half-decently covered. So excited until I tried to use her against - wehat I thought was - the main targets she is designed for... strike tile spammers. Her red trap gets over-written almost immediately, black depends on her being in front (but when it triggers whee!) and purple is too expensive to make it worth the use.

    I laughed at this because I was also excited about Electra. Eh I still use her sometimes.
  • jredd
    jredd Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
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    prompted by just pulling him from a legendary:

    totally lame hulk

    at least make it so pulling his covers isn't quite as painful as a kick in the nuts.
  • IFORANI
    IFORANI Posts: 91
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    My opinion only... We're doing their work for them because at the current release rate of new characters it will take almost twice as long to fully cover all but 1 stars. I'm going to start sending a bill if I have to be a tester much longer.

    Every character has its nitch in the game somewhere. Some are more useful in PVP then others. Some are more usefully in waves then others. Some only really get played when buffed. If the latter is the devs goals then take those characters and raise to buff levels and don't buff them hardly. Might work might not but ain't no different then anything else that's done.

    Also if you decrease any areas of a character you should have a sell price of equal or greater to what it cost to build a character. I know not business wise but neither is screwing people then eventually they stop paying. But we can agree to disagree for those who want to say they differ.

    Only thing I would do is try to make the health differences in versus to create a usefulness for those characters not seeing love there.
  • VA5
    VA5 Posts: 66
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    Un-Nerf X-force and Thor Goddess. X-force green arguably most under-powered 4 ability.
  • Spiritclaw
    Spiritclaw Posts: 397 Mover and Shaker
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    So much hate for poor Spidey. I use him at least once a day (for enchilada) and he serves me well. I'd rather see them fix characters I otherwise wouldn't use.