Any chance expiration dates will be lifted?

BearVenger

I'm a recovering 3* under-leveller. I haven't played rich, fast, or experienced enough to move into full-time 4* territory. I do have one of every 2*, 3*, and 4* character, except Miles Morales. I kept a mountain of ISO, so I could max my baby 4*s and gradually float all of my 3*s.

When I heard the buzz about championing, I started saving all my duplicate covers and grinded LR and DDQ. When championing went gold, I champed my 2*s and 166'ed a number of 3*s.

Now, after blowing through 550,000+ ISO and my redeemed tokens, I have 20 championed characters and 33 3* covers that will expire in 6-13 days. Previously, I would have sold surplus covers for their ISO face value, but now, I'd like to use them to champion my characters.

I don't want a cover vault, covers to raise levels on non-champion characters, or any other new permanent change. Permanent changes tend to have unwanted long-term effects. Roster and resource management is part of the game, and I accept that.

However, since:
-This is an unannounced new feature that rocks all aspects of the game, including hoarding, spending, and conservation,
-ISO~cash value is skewed (championing ONE level 140 3* character costs 69.2K ISO, the equivalent of $88 from a $100 ISO purchase),
-There were two opportunities (year-end game-wide sale and $5 Google Play offer) that encouraged users to drop cash on HP, rather than ISO.
-So many of us are in a cover glut/ISO famine since yesterday,
-This is likely a very unique circumstance affecting a large number of users that will not be repeated,

I would like to have d3 temporarily extend or waive the expiration date on covers acquired within the past two weeks. Any covers acquired from now going forward will use the current standards. But any collected covers (including the ones up-cycled from championing 2*->3*->4*->5*) that we didn't account for should be given some grace while we do our darndest to make the best use of them.

My problem will not be 5-10 covers at the end of the month. My problem is 33 covers NOW. If nothing is done, I will probably sell back 29-30 of them to partially raise the ISO to champion 1 or 2 more characters. I'd rather be able to use them all, and I'd like d3 to to think about the users who weren't sitting on a half-million ISO for a rainy day. If I'm having problems with my 3* menagerie, I can't imagine what the 4* players are going through currently.

Crowl

BearVenger wrote:

I don't want a cover vault, covers to raise levels on non-champion characters, or any other new permanent change. Permanent changes tend to have unwanted long-term effects. Roster and resource management is part of the game, and I accept that.

Another part of this game is an rng that can be vastly more cruel to some people than others, so it would be nice if they could make a simple change to the game to reduce rather than increase that issue by either removing the expiry date on covers or allowing them to be applied as a normal level up and not just champion level ups.

squirrel1120

They aren't going to do that. They just aren't.

If you can start a sentence with, "it would be nice if they would...", the vast majority of the time will result to prove out that they just didn't.

If they do, I'd be mighty suprised. But to do it also in a time frame that would help with the current issue right now? Beyond skeptical on that.

lukewin

simonsez wrote:

babinro wrote:

I don't see a problem with the current implementation of cover queues.

... says the guy with 3 usable 5*s who doesn't need to give a **** about what to do with extra 4* covers.

As for everyone else, one of the points of championing was to ease the pain of pulling tons of covers we don't need... you know, the sort of pain that you haven't experienced in nearly the same proportion as most everyone else.

Championing fails on this point if we still end up having to trash dozens of dupe 4*s.

You're trying to use the fact that he has 3 usable 5*s to weaken his point of view, but those are unrelated issues. The covers he has for characters he doesn't have championed are going to have to be sold for ISO too. If he has cover maxed 5*, but not level maxed, then he's willing to sell them for ISO or roster them in hopes of CS allowing him to apply them when he does have them championed (the method Petergibbons316 was advocating for in this same thread).

What you're asking for, is the same thing that the softcappers are asking for. A way for the covers you pull to be useful. The softcappers want to benefit from the championing system, despite not paying the dues (maxing their characters). You're asking for the same thing. You want all covers to be useful, because there is a system in place, where all covers can be useful, if the conditions are met.

I just maxed and championed 2 3*. I accept the fact that since I haven't maxed any other characters, that the covers I have that could go to champions, are going to go to ISO. I haven't met the requirements, so I shouldn't reap any of the benefits. When I do meet the requirements, I'll be able to reap the benefits.

Linkster79

It seems to me that some players want everything right away. Like Lukewin stated as soon as all conditions are met then championing can occur and covers for those characters aren't wasted. This time 2 weeks ago players would have sold unusable covers for ISO, begrudgingly yes but not complaining about it.

I just sold 3 blue 3* Daken covers. My 3* Daken is cover maxed but not level !axed (only at L120ish), but I am not complaining. I complain and slate D3Go! probably more than most of the forum users yet I am happy with how this system is at the moment.

What is it all the more experienced players say to those less experienced when they complain? Oh yes, we paid our dues to get to the top so now you do. Well it is time to pay your dues again for a new system. Just because you have been playing a while doesn't mean you are entitled to all the benefits of a new system as soon as it is launched, you need to work your way up with time or money not expect it to be handed to you.

alphabeta

Two hopes of this happening

Bob Hope

And

No Hope

simonsez

lukewin wrote:

You're trying to use the fact that he has 3 usable 5*s to weaken his point of view, but those are unrelated issues.

He said, "I don't see a problem". I was explaining why he didn't see it. It's completely and directly related.

simonsez

lukewin wrote:

What you're asking for, is the same thing that the softcappers are asking for. A way for the covers you pull to be useful.

Nice try, but that's a completely **** analogy.

IceIX told us he understands the frustration of constantly pulling LTs we don't need. He said they're working on something to fix that. Until we hear something else, I've got to assume that championing is what he was referring to. So, they've completely failed in their stated goal. Go softcap THAT.

Linkster79

simonsez wrote:

lukewin wrote:

What you're asking for, is the same thing that the softcappers are asking for. A way for the covers you pull to be useful.

Nice try, but that's a completely tinykitty analogy.

IceIX told us he understands the frustration of constantly pulling LTs we don't need. He said they're working on something to fix that. Until we hear something else, I've got to assume that championing is what he was referring to. So, they've completely failed in their stated goal. Go softcap THAT.

Technically no cover is "wasted". You pull a cover for a character you don't need so you sell it for ISO and use that ISO to increase the level of another character. The only way a cover can be completely useless is if you have every single character on you roster fully levelled to their current cap. If that is the case then you have a problem that many, many players would be envious of and would love to have.

Also as the saying goes, to assume is to make an **** of you and me.

cletus1985

Linkster79 wrote:

simonsez wrote:

lukewin wrote:

What you're asking for, is the same thing that the softcappers are asking for. A way for the covers you pull to be useful.

Nice try, but that's a completely tinykitty analogy.

IceIX told us he understands the frustration of constantly pulling LTs we don't need. He said they're working on something to fix that. Until we hear something else, I've got to assume that championing is what he was referring to. So, they've completely failed in their stated goal. Go softcap THAT.

Technically no cover is "wasted". You pull a cover for a character you don't need so you sell it for ISO and use that ISO to increase the level of another character. The only way a cover can be completely useless is if you have every single character on you roster fully levelled to their current cap. If that is the case then you have a problem that many, many players would be envious of and would love to have.

Also as the saying goes, to assume is to make an **** of you and me.

I actually suggested in another thread before championing was a thing, that you should be able to apply a cover to a character that you can't use the cover for, into a +1-2 levels for that character. Iso has always been a problem in this game and the paltry 1000 or 500 iso you get for gold covers is disgusting. When I draw a 4* cover that would cost me 2500 HP (soon to be 120 CP) or take plenty of game time to earn I should get more use out of it then being able to add roughly 1/3 of a level to said character. As long as it only applies to the given character it couldn't really be abused or give anyone much of an advantage (although that is mostly up to RNGesus).

simonsez

Linkster79 wrote:

Technically no cover is "wasted"

Exactly what this thread needed, a "technical" argument that is a strawman to boot. Nowhere in my OP did I say the covers are "wasted" or "useless".

They gave us champions so we'd have something different to do with covers we pull for characters we've already cover-maxed. Because of the lack of an adequate ISO stream for 4* players, for the vast majority of 4* players, IT IS NOT WORKING. We're doing the exact same thing we were doing with them before. Getting 1000 ISO for them.

Crowl

Linkster79 wrote:

It seems to me that some players want everything right away. Like Lukewin stated as soon as all conditions are met then championing can occur and covers for those characters aren't wasted. This time 2 weeks ago players would have sold unusable covers for ISO, begrudgingly yes but not complaining about it.

The crucial difference is that those covers are effectively worth far more now, so having to give them away for the pittance of iso just becomes that much more annoying.

What is it all the more experienced players say to those less experienced when they complain? Oh yes, we paid our dues to get to the top so now you do. Well it is time to pay your dues again for a new system. Just because you have been playing a while doesn't mean you are entitled to all the benefits of a new system as soon as it is launched, you need to work your way up with time or money not expect it to be handed to you.

People are not asking for all the benefits of the new system right away though, people are simply asking that their dupe covers have a similar level of worth today as everyone else, if you are able to champion a character you get the extra tokens, covers, hp and cp when you apply a cover, so allowing people who have had less luck with rng to get some benefit from this new system too is not a bad thing overall e.g. let them use their dupe colours on their 5/5/0 to go up a level rather than making them sell it for 1/4 of a level's worth of iso.

Linkster79

Simonsez wrote:

They gave us champions so we'd have something different to do with covers we pull for characters we've already cover-maxed. Because of the lack of an adequate ISO stream for 4* players, for the vast majority of 4* players, IT IS NOT WORKING.

Correction they gave us champions to do something with the characters whose covers we pull that we have maxed levels not covers. I agree that ISO flow is an issue. I also agree Crowl that the sale value of covers above 2* tier is not high enough not since they stopped the HP resale value. What I do not agree with though is that covers are now worth more, just player perception that they are worth more. To D3Go! they still have the same face value. Personally with the planned HP change I would like to see 1 command point added to the resale value of 3* and 2 command points added to 4* on top of the ISO value but what I want doesn't matter 1 jot.

Malcrof

Linkster79 wrote:

I This time 2 weeks ago players would have sold unusable covers for ISO, begrudgingly yes but not complaining about it.

^ This, 100% This. I have even been selling 4* covers i know i wont max level any time in the next few months for iso to use to level 3*s long forgotten (DP your day is almost here!)

Prior to a couple days ago, spare 3* covers were just iso, spare 2* covers were an annoyance, and iso,, soare 4* covers , could be rage inducing.. now even ones you cannot use for a champion have a purpose... Iso, that thing we all need millions of..(well most)

Still going to sell covers for characters i won't max any time soon, and know what? Who cares, i have been selling covers for all 3*s for so long, its nice to have a use for some, but iso is more important right now.. which is why i am keeping select 2*s underleveled.. i need someones covers to sell!

donietsche

I think that the solution to the problem is an easy one.

The right price (in our perspective at least) to avoid the expiration date is (up to) 1k hp, i.e. the maximum price for an additional slot+ (if they feel that the price is too cheap by a business pov) a "merge" fee.

The fee could be something around 500 hp (it would still force a significant volume of micro-transactions, considering the constant flow of new 4*). Personally I believe it should be a free option, but for the sake of discussion, I'm open to the idea of the fee (which sounds like a good compromise).

5* should not have an expiration date (the rarity of the covers should also imply such a perk).

Technically it would be easy to implement: they simply need to introduce a "merge" option in the next future (which becomes active once you have championed a hero).

That being said, as Malcrof pointed out, micro-management in the game requires to take decisions. And as he said, if one doesn't plan to champion a character (especially a 4*) anytime soon, it's better to grab the badly needed iso and never look back.

simonsez

Malcrof wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

I This time 2 weeks ago players would have sold unusable covers for ISO, begrudgingly yes but not complaining about it.

^ This, 100% This.

The two of you are completely **** delusion. The reason championing exists in the first place is BECAUSE OF ALL THE COMPLAINING about all of the unusable covers we keep getting. For the two of you to say there'd be no complaining, when THAT"S ALL WE'VE BEEN DOING, is the stupidest **** thing I've read here in a while. Which says a lot.

If you're going to ban me for stating facts, please, by all means.

Linkster79

simonsez wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

I This time 2 weeks ago players would have sold unusable covers for ISO, begrudgingly yes but not complaining about it.

^ This, 100% This.

The two of you are completely tinykitty delusion. The reason championing exists in the first place is BECAUSE OF ALL THE COMPLAINING about all of the unusable covers we keep getting. For the two of you to say there'd be no complaining, when THAT"S ALL WE'VE BEEN DOING, is the stupidest tinykitty thing I've read here in a while. Which says a lot.

If you're going to ban me for stating facts, please, by all means.

Irrational? Probably yes. Insane? Almost a certainty, but delusional? Not a chance. Yes it is an annoyance when you pull a 12th red cover when you really need a yellow, but championing is not designed to alleviate that frustration it is designed to allow you to further develop your already maxed out characters.

To be fair I am not interested what an ex producer may have hinted at, the feature we have got is infinitely better than what was before. High end players tell us all the time how easy it is to get HP free in game to cover roster slots, well use those HP to get that final cover instead. Need more than 1 cover then that character is nowhere near ready for champion status and the ISO goes into the pool for adding levels/skipping/purchasing boosts.

Like I have stated many times I complain more than most, yet even I am struggling to find a downside to this feature. The issue it seems you are having along with everyone else is ISO flow not cover expiration times.

Eddiemon

simonsez wrote:

The two of you are completely tinykitty delusion. The reason championing exists in the first place is BECAUSE OF ALL THE COMPLAINING about all of the unusable covers we keep getting. For the two of you to say there'd be no complaining, when THAT"S ALL WE'VE BEEN DOING, is the stupidest tinykitty thing I've read here in a while. Which says a lot.

If you're going to ban me for stating facts, please, by all means.

Oh get over yourself and your petty delusions. Nobody important cares about your COMPLAINING.

Hey look they came out with a system that bridges the 2-3 transition and gives people the ability to experience progression even when they don't have enough 3* covers and gives them access to more 3* covers, and the system also bridges the 3-4* transition and gives people a progression path while waiting to acquire enough 4* covers and generates reliable 4* covers and LTs for them.

So was this system created to A) create a new progression paradigm for people who were getting bogged down and bored or b) created because you whined about bad pulls? Let's stop calling other people delusional until you have dealt with your own narcissism.

Linkster79

If covers are held indefinitely and not sold does that further not slow down ones ISO income?

Players of all levels need more ISO not less and any boost in ISO rewards will not cover the shortfall from selling higher tiered covers.

Dragon_Nexus

Eddiemon wrote:

simonsez wrote:

The two of you are completely tinykitty delusion. The reason championing exists in the first place is BECAUSE OF ALL THE COMPLAINING about all of the unusable covers we keep getting. For the two of you to say there'd be no complaining, when THAT"S ALL WE'VE BEEN DOING, is the stupidest tinykitty thing I've read here in a while. Which says a lot.

If you're going to ban me for stating facts, please, by all means.

Oh get over yourself and your petty delusions. Nobody important cares about your COMPLAINING.

Hey look they came out with a system that bridges the 2-3 transition and gives people the ability to experience progression even when they don't have enough 3* covers and gives them access to more 3* covers, and the system also bridges the 3-4* transition and gives people a progression path while waiting to acquire enough 4* covers and generates reliable 4* covers and LTs for them.

So was this system created to A) create a new progression paradigm for people who were getting bogged down and bored or b) created because you whined about bad pulls? Let's stop calling other people delusional until you have dealt with your own narcissism.

Then what of IceIX's quote of creating something to reduce if not remove the frustration of selling 4* covers we have too many of?

The root of this heated argument is that the expiration should be lengthened, if not removed. That was the point. If this is the solution not only to stagnation but also finding a use for 4* covers we were otherwise trashing, then continuing to have a 2 week time limit on the rarest of covers with a "Welp, you'd better get them up to level 270 quick!" ticking clock element doesn't really fit the second intended design.