*Venom* Update

TLCstormz

What it sounds like TO ME is that something will happen where new / unused / extra / excess covers will be worth more than they are, as of right now.

The nerfing of a 1* is indeed silly and people do have the right to be annoyed by all of this, but David has clearly left some breadcrumbs. Also, I don't he has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that is actually in the game.

Refocus your energies and frustrations onto something /someone else.

Heartburn

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Cypr3ss wrote:

I think what this confirms is they don't do play testing, they just don't bother.

This is incorrect. Please refrain from posting speculation as if it were fact. Both in-house and external testing takes place.

then you seem to do a piss poor job at play testing when the forum can find and report exploits within minutes/hours of being post after being "play tested".

Mawtful

This isn't a matter of testing. It's a matter of game design.

As someone stated, it shouldn't take a tester to tell you that a character with a OHKO ability based on Web Tiles was going to be an issue when introducing a character who creates a lot of web tiles.

This is indicative of a much deeper problem. Demiurge's designers are lacking a fundamental understanding of game design. For a long time, I thought it may have been willful ignorance, but the one-two combo of Miles' web tiles and ~nerfing~ 1* Venom betrays a complete lack of knowledge.

Let me suggest that Venom requires absolutely no changes, as others have already pointed out. Devour is an expensive ability on a 1* character. That's already enough limitations. If there is still some fear that it can be "exploited", simply have the ability also remove all web tiles - now it cannot be double cast in the same turn.

1000 monkeys at 1000 keyboards would not have made such an inane design choice. I wonder who was responsible for making this one at Demiurge.

Edit: As an addendum, I am looking forward to the upcoming Deadpool nerf - he can OHKO the entire team without exploiting another character (although Switch provides free AP acceleration for him). And this OP ability can be given as a team up.

20three

That would be absolutely devastating if a 1-star character would actually become somewhat viable! The horror!

Marvelfamily

Hahaha! Don't have Venom, but this is fun. A new character comes ingame, and the devs are recognizing that Venom / Miles Deal a few days later. What about 1* and 3* Spider-Man? He creates Web Tiles also, same changing going on there?

That's the nice thing about mpq, finding combos that really work, so why changing the fun?

STOPTHIS

I thought this announcement was going to be about 4* Venom's moves getting better, not 1* Venom's moves getting worse.

Cypr3ss

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Cypr3ss wrote:

I think what this confirms is they don't do play testing, they just don't bother.

This is incorrect. Please refrain from posting speculation as if it were fact. Both in-house and external testing takes place.

There's no speculation, its a very straight forward thing, a fact if you will. I've noticed on this forum some members don't understand the meaning of the word they're using, its ok, not everyone's first language is English, so I don't mind clarifying: A playtest is the process by which a game designer tests a new game for bugs and design flaws before bringing it to market.

I've added some emphasis to the last part because I think its very important, the testing involves both bugs & design but also the "before bringing it to market". So again, I'm not sure what sort of testing you are doing, as you indicate you're paying some people to test some stuff, but it is not play testing.

Regards,
Cypr3ss.

Howzat

STOPTHIS wrote:

I thought this announcement was going to be about 4* Venom's moves getting better, not 1* Venom's moves getting worse.

That's what i thought. Surely someone will realise Give and Take is straight up the worst ability they have ever designed and kill it with fire.

Also curious if we can expect a knee-jerk nerf for Spider-Man (Original)? He more than anyone is the perfect partner for a 3/5/5 Miles, for now

All Tied Up - 8 AP
Spider-Man slings webs, stuning the target for 1 turn and adding a Web tile to the board.
Level 2: Stuns an extra turn if 3 or more Web tiles exist.
Level 3: Costs 1 fewer Blue AP to fire.
Level 4: Stuns an extra turn if 2 or more Web tiles exist.
Level 5: Costs 1 fewer Blue AP to fire.
Max Level
Level 3: Costs 7 AP, stuns 1 turn or 2 if 3 or more Web tiles exist.
Level 4: Costs 7 AP, stuns 1 turn or 2 if 2 or more Web tiles exist.
Level 5: Costs 6 AP, stuns 1 turn or 2 if 2 or more Web tiles exist.

Spectacular Strategy - 8 AP
Spider-Man uses his wits and webs to overcome incredible odds and win the day. Converts 2 random basic tiles to Critical tiles, then adds a Web tile to the board.
Level 2: If there are 5 or more Web tiles, converts an additional 2 Basic tiles to Critical tiles.
Level 3: Creates 4 Critical tiles if there are 4 or more Web tiles on the board.
Level 4: Creates 4 Critical tiles if there are 3 or more Web tiles on the board.
Level 5: Creates 2 Web tiles.
Max Level
Level 3: 4 Critical tiles if 4+ Web tiles exist. Creates 1 Web tile.
Level 4: 4 Critical tiles if 3+ Web tiles exist. Creates 1 Web tile.
Level 5: 4 Critical tiles if 3+ Web tiles exist. Creates 2 Web tiles.

puppychow

JVReal wrote:

Removing cover expiration dates would go a long way in helping us get excited and prepared for this new feature.

Agreed. Removing expiration date or at least doubling to 30 days would be a welcome change.

puppychow

20three wrote:

That would be absolutely devastating if a 1-star character would actually become somewhat viable! The horror!

Indeed. The realization that the old Devour ability could instant kill a max 5 must have kept the devs up at night.

puppychow

TLCstormz wrote:

What it sounds like TO ME is that something will happen where new / unused / extra / excess covers will be worth more than they are, as of right now.

The nerfing of a 1* is indeed silly and people do have the right to be annoyed by all of this, but David has clearly left some breadcrumbs. Also, I don't he has ANYTHING to do with ANYTHING that is actually in the game.

Refocus your energies and frustrations onto something /someone else.

The thing is, devs need to develop (pun intended ) new habits, like proper game testing rather than falling into the bad habit of nerf-by-fiat pre-existing abilities just b/c of unintended consequences. MPQ is, in essence, a glorified version of tic-tac-toe, and every character should be weak to another existing character. In the instance of venom, the very fact that he's a one with VERY LOW HEALTH means he is unlikely to stay alive long enough to trigger the old instant kill.

Nylarx

The main focus I believe would have been Team-up Devour - instant death with anyone that uses Miles.
Still, you would still need to gather all the AP for Miles's moves, plus the T-Up AP.

It is still a pity such an unique move will be gone though

MyFeetStink

zonatahunt wrote:

Semantics, David. In your original statement that I quoted you on you don't recommend selling anyone. Whether your new mechanic requires us to roster every character, your initial statement suggests to hold on to everyone. So, once again, you're now suggesting we keep Yelena, Bag-man and all the other worthless characters even though it'll cost us $10 a piece to do so.

"Hey you....check out this sweet carrot we've dangled in front of you...a MILE away. Btw, let me pick your pocket for more money while you try to reach the carrot."

Once again, unreal.

I may not know what I am talking about, but I did not read that as a statement to roster everyone, just not sell anyone. That likely means that some of the rumors that have been going around are likely pretty close to coming true. If they do, then the extra covers you hold onto (without recruiting) could be very valuable even if you have maxed that toon.

carlito666

Venom could insta killed 5* boons.
Fu nerf

Phumade

Are we to be held precisely to any recommendation ever made in the distant past regardless of changes made to the game in recent times or coming up in the pipe? A game that never changes or attempts to improve can stagnate.

YES!!!!! YOU are the only ones with the game road map. We depend on you and formerly (Ice X) to keep us informed so that we can make rational decisions about our game play. Many people have spent good money on this game, and while I don't think you or the developers were duplicitous about marketing communications, the lack of a consistent roadmap has harmed the relationship between developers and players.

Imagine if your Intel or any other hardware vendor, and every week its "OOPPSS" We didn't realize that making processors smaller makes them hotter "Have you tried adding a heat sink?"

That said, my recommendation wasn't really meant as foreplay, but more as a helpful suggestion for something players might want to keep in mind for future plans. The price of roster slots doesn't necessarily factor in.

Don't mean this to come off as harsh, but your job is to help provide transparency between players and developers. Not tell us who we should and shouldn't roster. Lets be super honest and admit that the top 50 alliances have a far more nuanced and informed sense of how the game plays. At this point, I'm sure the players are more likely to trust the playstyle recommendations of J1P than anything that comes from the developers.

I guess it may be better to not say anything at all. It has been noted.

Sigh, this sounds like a comment coming from a petulant teenager rationalizing a mistake. I work with kids in my real life job. I've come to realize that when kids make those comments or use silence as a communication tactic, its because they don't know how to accurately communicate their thoughts and concerns. Thats okay when its kids, but this is a business and there needs to be higher standards in how we communicate with others.

Bottom Line:
Do a better job and the player base won't think that D3 is composed of 1000 monkeys tapping away at a typewriter hoping to replicate Shakespeare's work.

Phumade

"David wrote:

Moore"]

Cypr3ss wrote:

I think what this confirms is they don't do play testing, they just don't bother.

This is incorrect. Please refrain from posting speculation as if it were fact. Both in-house and external testing takes place.

If that's the case, the test manager is doing an awful job of both play and bug testing. The passive wave bug should have never gotten through QA review. Has D3 ever considered using a script to automate testing?

Seriously, 15 min play breaks isn't really testing. Thats just employees goofing off.

QA and Software testing are real and legitimate fields in the technology industry. Companies that fail to recognize the importance of that function, write software at their own risk.

puppychow

MyFeetStink wrote:

I may not know what I am talking about, but I did not read that as a statement to roster everyone, just not sell anyone. That likely means that some of the rumors that have been going around are likely pretty close to coming true. If they do, then the extra covers you hold onto (without recruiting) could be very valuable even if you have maxed that toon.

That is my reading too---don't sell anyone if at all possible. I've been holding 3,4s for this reason.

emaker27

"The Mac Gargan version will benefit greatly from the web tiles that Miles can produce, making his Devour instant kill become a real threat. But being a 1* character, he’s going to be pretty squishy out there with the guys and gals in the big leagues. " (http://marvel.com/news/video_games/2557 ... ales_venom)

I was so excited to earn Miles so I could have fun with 1* Venom on certain nodes . If this was known during pre-release, why the change in direction?

And I feel like I should apologize for the lack of decorum from some of the forumites... I'm not a fan of the change either but it's just a match 3 game.

GuntherBlobel

emaker27 wrote:

"The Mac Gargan version will benefit greatly from the web tiles that Miles can produce, making his Devour instant kill become a real threat. But being a 1* character, he’s going to be pretty squishy out there with the guys and gals in the big leagues. " (http://marvel.com/news/video_games/2557 ... ales_venom)

I was so excited to earn Miles so I could have fun with 1* Venom on certain nodes . If this was known during pre-release, why the change in direction?

And I feel like I should apologize for the lack of decorum from some of the forumites... I'm not a fan of the change either but it's just a match 3 game.

I'm a little sad too, because I love using Venom. It's really one of the more fun things to do in the game and it's much more of a challenge than an exploit. I don't remember other people using Venom to complete the lvl 385 Hulk wave node, for example (there are much more effective methods). I was glad to read Joe's quote above, because it's true. Oh well... that's one less thing to love about MPQ, but whatever... I'll live.

Still, I thought we were beyond those days when synergistic combos were reflexively eliminated from the game. Prof X / gsBW is still a thing. Fistbuster is everywhere no matter what the buffs are. This is just odd...

Tie El Min

Personally it annoys me the fact that it was done quickly and quietly without any debate and diverse opinions of members of the forum. You first did, then shyly wrote about it, putting before you the facts. Without any compensation for it. "worrying feedback", ****, what about those who are asked to repair Bagman, third abilities by 1* or stop input 1* as they have already and **** the **** out of anyone, so how does the usual set, and much more inform, restless voice, but instantly heard this bull ****. Developers! I just say that you're dishonest people, I've invested money into the game. But I've had enough! Here's my "worrying feedback"! Eat it!