A 5* players frustrations with MPQ's matchmaking.

TxMoose

Bowgentle wrote:

Which is the reason Thorverine 2.0 got hit by the nerf sledgehammer - nobody cared about new chars anymore.

when the new characters were starlord and Elektra, can you blame the players?

OneLastGambit

MarvelMan wrote:

aesthetocyst wrote:

wymtime wrote:

Overall I don't think this is just a 5* player problem. I was in slice 2 of the Thor PVP and when I got above 850 points I skipped crookedknight 10 times. Everyother skip was him and at the time he was only worth 32-33 points. I have. Imagine he saw me around the same number of times for maybe 35 points. The top players in my group were over 1800 points, but matchmaking kept giving me the exact same players for low points.

Generally speaking, every 3* player over 800 is shielded, and almost everyone over 1K is shielded. And players running 2x 5*s are not visible to many.

Nothing new about this. It's simple distribution. The bulk of the players in the slice are un3D and visible to you, but once you have climbed, they aren't worth much.

The higher you go, the harder the climb. Not a problem; a challenge.

Except as a 3* to 4* transitioner, using my 3*s mostly, I get HAMMERED as soon as I cross 700 by 4* teams and some with 325-350 5*s plus I still got to skip some of the same players over and over and over, often for 28-33 pts. It IS a general problem, though maybe not the biggest with the game.

Fear not the overpowered teams.. I have taken down teams which were way way way above my level and have done so again today. Brains over brawn my friend

MarvelMan

OneLastGambit wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

Except as a 3* to 4* transitioner, using my 3*s mostly, I get HAMMERED as soon as I cross 700 by 4* teams and some with 325-350 5*s plus I still got to skip some of the same players over and over and over, often for 28-33 pts. It IS a general problem, though maybe not the biggest with the game.

Fear not the overpowered teams.. I have taken down teams which were way way way above my level and have done so again today. Brains over brawn my friend

Oh, Im not afraid of them. Annoyed by some *cough*JG*cough* but thats about it. The bad part is that I get HAMMERED after crossing about 700. So I can barely stay afloat, and can almost forget about reaching 1k. Took me about 8 tries, with 5 shields, the last time I tried.

OneLastGambit

MarvelMan wrote:

OneLastGambit wrote:

MarvelMan wrote:

Except as a 3* to 4* transitioner, using my 3*s mostly, I get HAMMERED as soon as I cross 700 by 4* teams and some with 325-350 5*s plus I still got to skip some of the same players over and over and over, often for 28-33 pts. It IS a general problem, though maybe not the biggest with the game.

Fear not the overpowered teams.. I have taken down teams which were way way way above my level and have done so again today. Brains over brawn my friend

Oh, Im not afraid of them. Annoyed by some *cough*JG*cough* but thats about it. The bad part is that I get HAMMERED after crossing about 700. So I can barely stay afloat, and can almost forget about reaching 1k. Took me about 8 tries, with 5 shields, the last time I tried.

I'm not in the habit of pushing too hard for PVP yet and I will never shield. I'm convinced I can get what I want without it and will find a way eventually. I finished t2 in the thor PVP with 912 points without using a single shield, and in the LCap one previously finished t10 with 800 points without shielding so I think it can be done though I'm not suggesting it's simple.

Ruinate

Bowgentle wrote:

Ruinate wrote:

lukewin wrote:

If my luck does change and I get usable 5*, I'd want to use them to beat up on the same teams I see now, not get bumped out of the sweet spot I'm in and have the game become less fun.

This, right here. It makes sense that the game gets harder as your roster gets better in pve (to a degree).

However, getting things taken away from you, such as viable targets, because your roster got better is just plain stupid. Why play? Why progress?

In any other tier-based game, transitioning is difficult. But once you reach the tier the game rewards you by becoming easier. You feel powerful and strong and you feel good until it's time transition again. Where is the feel good part in this game?

You're not supposed to feel powerful or good in mpq.
The whole business model is built on you forever chasing the new shiny and never feeling secure.
Because once you feel powerful and good, you don't have a reason to buy cover packs anymore.

Which is the reason Thorverine 2.0 got hit by the nerf sledgehammer - nobody cared about new chars anymore.

Understandable, but the OP has the new and shiny. And there's no other new and shiny that we know of yet in the 5* tier. With OP's great luck, he should be feeling good. Instead he feels worse.

I did feel strong and good at one point. When my 3* were cover maxed, but level capped at 120. Look at all these people in this thread planning on keeping their 5* low level. That's a problem.

Hayek

I don't think this is a problem so much as a necessary evil. Congratulations on your lucky pulls, but for those of us on the bottom half of the luck curve with very few 5* covers despite the same level of effort, this is actually a relief. I'm glad that rosters that I can't retaliate against in lightning rounds can't just prey on me and others in my situation to easily earn the top placement rewards every time. Can you imagine if top 25 LR rewards always went to 5* rosters just because they got lucky pulls? Because that's what would happen. You could have finished your 4* transition and have most of the 4*s fully covered/leveled and never break top 25 again.

As for PvE - I already face 395 teams with my 4* roster and it's not a problem. Your 5 yellow OML alone makes any PvE node trivial. So you could enjoy your shiny 5*s there, if your idea of fun is being pigeonholed into using the same 3 characters over and over again. It's one of the biggest issues with 5*s in the game. They invalidate all other characters in the game with their absolutely insane power levels and reduce your effective roster to 2 or 3 characters taking the game back to the 4hor/XF days.

Stax the Foyer

Hayek wrote:

I don't think this is a problem so much as a necessary evil. Congratulations on your lucky pulls, but for those of us on the bottom half of the luck curve with very few 5* covers despite the same level of effort, this is actually a relief.

It's a relief in more than one way, really.

I see now how insurmountable the gap is for people who didn't have lucky 5* pulls early on, despite similar playstyles.

It's sort of soothing to know that I'll never be able to catch up.

Linkster79

The simple solution is to do away with the whole MMR system in its entirety. It has always been broken and never worked as it should. Make everyone visible to everyone else regardless of roster or points this way when those who have a very good roster of 4*'s happen upon a noob with only a couple of low level 3*'s they get to feel all powerful and mighty again. As a player should who has invested time and or money.

Oh a little caveat goes with this suggestion. Get rid of defensive losses! They have been an annoyance since day 1and shouldn't even exist outside of true player versus player. Seriously why should the players get punished because the AI plays differently to how we would?

puppychow

Sm0keyJ0e wrote:

Ruinate wrote:

In any other tier-based game, transitioning is difficult. But once you reach the tier the game rewards you by becoming easier. You feel powerful and strong and you feel good until it's time transition again. Where is the feel good part in this game?

This is what I'm going through right now and realizing I am not playing as much because it's not as fun as it was. Here's my story...

This thread is starting to turn into a depressing alcoholics anonymous meeting. . .

MarvelMan

aesthetocyst wrote:

Except....what? You say it's a problem ... because you don't want to accept the game the way it's designed. MPQ is P2W. The way it provides to get over your hurdle is to pay for shields.

You think that q (same players over and over for 28-33pts), is awful, wait until to see a q of nothing but 1pters. 1* players, 2* players, 3* players, even 4* players ... all you can eat for 1pt apiece. YUM!

I am still a 3* player in PVP most of the time. On day 10 trillion, but it's true. I know precisely what you're describing, see it every event. The challenge is to figure out how to get past that point, when and if you want to. When I want to, I and my 3*s chase first place as high as that takes me (1728 this time and still fighting ). When nothing of interest is on the line I put up 500-1000 and move on.

If you need help, PM.

I guess my issues is that around 700 I lose valuable targets, get faced with maxed 4* teams (almost exclusively JeanBuster these days) while not even being T50 yet. There ARE teams that should be worth points, even if they are 4*. And if Im using my 3*s....shouldnt I be seeing 3* teams, at least a few?

I used to be able to score higher, this season something just seems off as to how hard it is to push. Ive hit 2k in the past, now 1k is tough and requires timing and multiple shields. I cant tailor my life to that unfortunately.

TxMoose

Linkster79 wrote:

Oh a little caveat goes with this suggestion. Get rid of defensive losses! They have been an annoyance since day 1and shouldn't even exist outside of true player versus player. Seriously why should the players get punished because the AI plays differently to how we would?

so non-stop grind from event start? whoever deprives everything else more than everyone else wins. no thanks. you thought 2.5 hr refreshes were a PITA in florida? this would be worse I'm afraid if no defensive losses. no shields means no hp spending, which would completely change a chunk of the hp economy in the game. curious to hear how to make that something other than a grindfest. current pvp is not a grindfest at all. its all about 1) how high you can climb to your 1st shield and 2) how many shields/hops you want to invest in the event. here in the CC era, they play a role as well, but definitely not a grindfest like I envision your suggestion ending up.

puppychow

Bowgentle wrote:

The whole business model is built on you forever chasing the new shiny and never feeling secure.
Because once you feel powerful and good, you don't have a reason to buy cover packs anymore.

Which is the reason Thorverine 2.0 got hit by the nerf sledgehammer - nobody cared about new chars anymore.

Gotta emphasize this point. Thorevine was indeed nerfed out of existence because it led players to stop adding new characters to their rosters. So the game developer had to shake things up in order to convince players to buy slots and cover packs for new character releases. Of course, the nerf back in March also led to a major quit-athon of the player base, and MPQ has never really recovered from that as far as player numbers are concerned.

dan54321

Wow, that really sucks. I've been really envious, imagining how cushy things are for people with decently covered 5*'s. Hearing about this makes me a lot less interested in getting more 5* covers.

grunth13

Well, if its any consolation, I saw babrino every 4th-5th skip because I have Jeanbuster maxed at 270. I was seeing him from like 400 to 1300 every 4th-5th skip. So it sucks for all of us...we can all be depressed together.

lukewin

OneLastGambit wrote:

I'm not in the habit of pushing too hard for PVP yet and I will never shield. I'm convinced I can get what I want without it and will find a way eventually. I finished t2 in the thor PVP with 912 points without using a single shield, and in the LCap one previously finished t10 with 800 points without shielding so I think it can be done though I'm not suggesting it's simple.

Either you're in baby brackets for PVP or you're extremely fortunate in your bracket placement. Hope that continues for you, because don't get used to those kinds of finishes if your luck changes. Most of my brackets, you'd be lucky to break Top 50 with 900 points and Top 100 isn't guaranteed with 800 points.

Bowgentle wrote:

Ruinate wrote:

lukewin wrote:

If my luck does change and I get usable 5*, I'd want to use them to beat up on the same teams I see now, not get bumped out of the sweet spot I'm in and have the game become less fun.

This, right here. It makes sense that the game gets harder as your roster gets better in pve (to a degree).

However, getting things taken away from you, such as viable targets, because your roster got better is just plain stupid. Why play? Why progress?

In any other tier-based game, transitioning is difficult. But once you reach the tier the game rewards you by becoming easier. You feel powerful and strong and you feel good until it's time transition again. Where is the feel good part in this game?

You're not supposed to feel powerful or good in mpq.
The whole business model is built on you forever chasing the new shiny and never feeling secure.
Because once you feel powerful and good, you don't have a reason to buy cover packs anymore.

Which is the reason Thorverine 2.0 got hit by the nerf sledgehammer - nobody cared about new chars anymore.

I guess bucking the suggested model of maxing your useful characters when you can, has allowed me to play a different game than those that have maxed characters, 3* or 4*. I still have fun and think once the game is no longer fun, I'm going to put it down. I still chase after the new and shiny, and under-leveling at 200 and 140, has allowed me to get a lot of my 4* to 200 and all of my 3* to 140. I'm on track to finish 1st in The Hulk, which should allow me to start Chulk off as a 3/1/2.

Not including Chulk, I've got 238/286 4* covers in my preferred spec, so I'm 83% thru finishing my 4* roster. I could be 85% thru, but I've got 6 covers on dupes, since I'm going for my preferred specs first. I've got 16 4* dupes, with 73 covers between them.

I've only spent $20 on the game, but that's because I haven't come across many purchases that would merit me spending more. I'd definitely be willing to spend more money if there were things I thought were worth buying. I'm up to 120 roster slots, so I am spending a good amount of HP in the game.

Heartburn

TxMoose wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

Oh a little caveat goes with this suggestion. Get rid of defensive losses! They have been an annoyance since day 1and shouldn't even exist outside of true player versus player. Seriously why should the players get punished because the AI plays differently to how we would?

so non-stop grind from event start? whoever deprives everything else more than everyone else wins. no thanks. you thought 2.5 hr refreshes were a PITA in florida? this would be worse I'm afraid if no defensive losses. no shields means no hp spending, which would completely change a chunk of the hp economy in the game. curious to hear how to make that something other than a grindfest. current pvp is not a grindfest at all. its all about 1) how high you can climb to your 1st shield and 2) how many shields/hops you want to invest in the event. here in the CC era, they play a role as well, but definitely not a grindfest like I envision your suggestion ending up.

there are other ways to monetize it, boost galore!!!! New and improved hp boost like 1ap color type at the beginning of your turn every turn( finally you bring an AP battery to a fight), 2x ability damage, 2x ability effects, 1/2 cost abilities ( can designate to only a color if too op) feel like gambling go for 2x,3x,5x outcome boost ( win or lose. maybe from a limited pool of opponents. will also cause more post for AI is cheating lol), take an extra turn boost(you activate it before finishing your turn and get to go again, AKA "look an eagle" * points behind opponent* boost) street fight boost abilities damage 1/4 and match damage 400%.

To add incentive to use the boosts they can offer rewards ( extra iso 1-5k, 3* cover, 4* cover, extra tokens, CP, ect. depending on difficulty) based on timed goals like get to x amount of points in less then 45 min play or in the the first 30 min of starting the event( or of the event start to encourage early play). or even objective based goals like winning streaks - win 3, 5, 10, ect. in a row, hitting above your weight( defeat a stronger team(lvl, s, higher ranked team in event), get into a retaliation war of 1,3,5 ect. fights, win in less then 5,4,3,1 mins, beat the king of the hill( win against the top player) make 1,3,5, ect match 5s+ in a match, stun lock opponent for 2,4,6, ect. turns, prevent opponent from firing any abilities, win by only match damage, match damage and tus only, passive skills only, use blue/purple, red/yellow, or green/black abilities only(or just one color for increased difficulties, launch 2, 4,6 abilities in a row( starlord is useful again hurray!) before winning the match, last man standing win with one hero left on your team with less then 40% health remaining(5%or less for challenge mode).

JamesV

TxMoose wrote:

Linkster79 wrote:

Oh a little caveat goes with this suggestion. Get rid of defensive losses! They have been an annoyance since day 1and shouldn't even exist outside of true player versus player. Seriously why should the players get punished because the AI plays differently to how we would?

so non-stop grind from event start? whoever deprives everything else more than everyone else wins. no thanks. you thought 2.5 hr refreshes were a PITA in florida? this would be worse I'm afraid if no defensive losses. no shields means no hp spending, which would completely change a chunk of the hp economy in the game. curious to hear how to make that something other than a grindfest. current pvp is not a grindfest at all. its all about 1) how high you can climb to your 1st shield and 2) how many shields/hops you want to invest in the event. here in the CC era, they play a role as well, but definitely not a grindfest like I envision your suggestion ending up.

Yeah that would be a nightmare.

Honestly, there's no real way to "solve"/"improve" PVP and work in the current system without real changes, and I don't think that will happen.

The easiest thing you could do is change the way shields work and make them protect a score, but not protect the player. By that I mean say you shield at 900 points. The shield protects your score at 900, it doesn't remove you from pool and if you gain more points, well anything above 900 can be lost. Obviously the problem with this is it could put too many points in the system (though I'm not sure how much this actually changes considering shield hopping etiquette, etc.). You switch the shield structure around (so a 24 hour one is cheaper than an 3 hour one) and make that time their recharge. So for example:

Shield at 900 using a 24 hour refresh shield. You climb to 1150. You want to reshield. But there's 16 hours left for the 24 hour shield, so you grab the 8 hour shield (next cheapest).

The real negative is it could push the higher end up and leave the lower star players behind. On the other hand, it could also allow lower tier players to try and push higher or take larger chances if they know that they can fly a bit higher and protect their score.

WelcomeDeath

I don't understand why you wouldn't be able to see 2 5* teams. The slice I'm in has 2 players that have 2 maxed 5* they run all the time, and I'm constantly queueing them when I'm over 1k (no real need for them to shield).

evil panda

Do you five star roster guys get matched with lower opponents if you field your, ahem, less powerful teams? You know, the teams that share a name with a small baked good?

Because I do appreciate not getting plowed by maxed five stars once I get to around 1300. However - if those players decide to field teams that are similar in level to my own, then all's fair

TxMoose

JamesV wrote:

You switch the shield structure around (so a 24 hour one is cheaper than an 3 hour one) and make that time their recharge. So for example:

Shield at 900 using a 24 hour refresh shield. You climb to 1150. You want to reshield. But there's 16 hours left for the 24 hour shield, so you grab the 8 hour shield (next cheapest).

The real negative is it could push the higher end up and leave the lower star players behind. On the other hand, it could also allow lower tier players to try and push higher or take larger chances if they know that they can fly a bit higher and protect their score.

apologies for the thread side-track, but this is pretty interesting concept. the 900 would be locked in and even if you over extended your 'hop' (I think hops would be longer for more pts), and got beat back down, you'd still have your 900 and not 750 (or higher up keep your 1300 and not get beat back to 1000) and you could just regroup and try again later. only issue there is when you successfully locked in above your team strength out there, you'd be hit constantly. CCs could be left open forever and whenever you wanted to push, just put your real team in there. out of game coordination would no longer be as critical. interesting...