**** The Hulk (Totally Awesome) ****

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  • dkffivdkffiv Posts: 1,018 Chairperson of the Boards
    Sm0keyJ0e wrote:
    Am I the only who thinks this might be the worst 4* out there? He's absolutely terrible and beyond a couple of niche uses or being an essential character I cannot fathom using him at all.

    There, I said it.

    If we ignore Mr. F possibly.

    He's also more flexible than Flaptain, who only has very situational uses.

    Then there's Elektra, StarLord, and IW. Perhaps they can form the Questionable Quartet with Cho...

    But I think Cho will beat them all to become the 5th Worst 4*! icon_lol.gif

    Will be interesting to see Colognoisseur's take.

    PvE wise Mr. F is actually pretty useful, I've been making excuses to use him more since I leveled him for the 4* DPD. Falcap seems pretty bad but I don't have one covered properly enough to use. Elektra is very good on certain teams, SL is hit or miss whether his CD tiles survive or not (if they survive he's decent, if you wasted AP he's a waste of a slot - the variance makes him bad), IW is just bad.

    Cho's blue is mediocre at best, it needs to either do more or cost less. It was moderately interesting with Xforce/DP against Venom + Ares since it can be used with DP's purple. With a 3 turn CD tile it wasn't even going off all the time against AI teams with no blue users. Green's damage is bad considering its his only source of damage and black is literally unusable. It is extremely difficult to get 6 or fewer blue tiles on the board without Doctor Doom or Xforce and when it does go off it doesn't really do anything. There are so few blue on the board that it will never cascade, the heal is a burst heal and he stuns himself.

    Proposed changes:

    Green: 10 AP, raise base damage by 25% and leave everything else the same. It will do similar damage (on average) to a Repulsor Punch but he's not nearly as good at self accelerating.

    Blue: Make blue targetable. He's supposed to be calculating outcomes anyway.

    Black: Raise cost to 10, remove stun component and have him eat every (yellow or red - probably include all types of special tiles as well) and healing for 10% the current amount listed per tile (120/150/210 at max). I'd change it to a true heal but at the very least make it 50% true heal 50% burst. I think yellow makes more sense but there are more red users at the 4* tier.

    I think blue should create strike tiles instead of charged but he's looking like a R&G clone at that point. Nothing about him screams Hulk, he doesn't currently seem excessively tough or strong.
  • RaffoonRaffoon Age Unconfirmed Posts: 884
    I'm kind of disappointed that I ground that 7 day PVE for him. After the 30 day event and the alliance reward, I have 6 covers, but little desire to level him now that I'm taking a closer look. He could probably use at least small buff somewhere. Maybe if blue just happened immediately instead of making a cooldown, and black didn't have a restriction on when it could be used.
  • I think Mr. Fantastic is a pretty fair comparison to Cho as they are both failed support characters with similar skill sets.

    Each has one offensive power, one heal power and one blue power which is also the best power for each. Lets break it down.

    Mr.F blacktile.png vs Cho greentile.png : Chos Green wins easily since Imaginaut is tinykitty and Masterminds damage is decent and has a secondary effect that can be useful since you can choose where to place the block destroyer.

    Mr.F yellowtile.png vs Cho blacktile.png : Mr.Fs self heal is clearly better in a variety of ways. First it costs nothing since its passive, second it has a chance to go off fairly regularly since he creates tiles himself, third it actually heals for 70% more than Hot Dog does and finally it has the added benefit of green AP generation if paired with FF members. Master of the Fantastic is a superior self heal without even considering the huge drawbacks of Hot Dog Stands self stun and far more important fewer than 7 blue tile requirement to cast. Briefly i'll mention the added "bonus" of HDS creating 3 blue tiles by saying since the tiles are only created when there are so few on the board that you won't be getting any free matches or cascades with this so it really does nothing but hinder your ability to cast this power.
    I see HDS as even worse than Imaginaut since even if you wanted to cast this POS you can't the vast majority of the time and its practically impossible to cast twice in a row which you really need to do since one cast doesn't heal for very much at 5 covers which you would never take it to in the first place since this power is a complete piece of garbage.

    Mr.F bluetile.png vs Cho bluetile.png : This is where the winner of this battle of the tiny kitties emerges. The only real reason to bring either of these characters into a fight is for their blue power. Flexibility improves immensely as you cover it and at 5 covers stuns for 3 turns making it pretty powerful with the added benefit of two strong protect tiles. See the Math of it is a weak Green AP battery with significant downsides. First of all it needs a 2-turn CD tile to even go off and the blue charged tiles can help your opponent if they match them before you do. A fair comparison to StMoi is IM40s recharge which is laughably superior. Think about it, recharge provides 9red+9blue AP for 8yellow AP at level two whereas StMoi gives you 4 green AP for 7 blue AP at max level and has a greater chance of not doing a damn thing since the opponent only needs to match a single CD tile vs 3.

    At least Mr.F is good at what he does which is stun your opponent and drag on the fight whereas Cho is not even good at being a battery+offensive support character.
    So in conclusion, I believe Mr. tinykitty is better than Amadeus Chump.
  • ArcanaMoonArcanaMoon Age Unconfirmed Posts: 72 Match Maker
    Raffoon wrote:
    I'm kind of disappointed that I ground that 7 day PVE for him. After the 30 day event and the alliance reward, I have 6 covers, but little desire to level him now that I'm taking a closer look. He could probably use at least small buff somewhere. Maybe if blue just happened immediately instead of making a cooldown, and black didn't have a restriction on when it could be used.

    My only complain with Cho is the stun of his black, it allready has a restriction, why you need to be stunned for a turn, atleast they should remove it if someone ever think about max that skill
  • xellessanovaxellessanova Age Unconfirmed Posts: 183 Tile Toppler
    Devs overpriced targeted any tile destruction that gains AP, CD tiles, and charged tile generation, definitely -- clearly they did not do the math on this one and tried too hard to avoid Mystiquefinite 2.0 / originalGThor.

    There are still no good Blue/Green/Black characters -- Chulk joins Quicksilver and Doc Ock at the bottom of the barrel.
  • Green: 10 AP, raise base damage by 25% and leave everything else the same. It will do similar damage (on average) to a Repulsor Punch but he's not nearly as good at self accelerating.
    This here is somewhat wrong. You cant just ignore the amplification he has with blue AP. Yeah it sucks to keep all that AP when hes a blue user himself, but you can deal up to 9500 damage and you can select the destroyed tiles.

    And the problem with black being hard to be used is intentional, makes you use his green to destroy those tiles. And Im not sure here, but it doesnt says "destroyed tiles do not deal damage or generate AP" so you could potentially use it to gather more blue AP (including charged tiles) while triggering the black thereshold.
  • SangFroidSangFroid Posts: 177 Tile Toppler
    ShionSinX wrote:

    And the problem with black being hard to be used is intentional, makes you use his green to destroy those tiles. And Im not sure here, but it doesnt says "destroyed tiles do not deal damage or generate AP" so you could potentially use it to gather more blue AP (including charged tiles) while triggering the black thereshold.

    From the Cho event the description even at 5 green states no damage and no AP from the tiles destroyed.

    For some reason I did enjoy using him and want him to be good but he is unfortunately the "Totally Underwhelming Hulk"
  • SangFroidSangFroid Posts: 177 Tile Toppler
    My suggestions to fix him would be:

    Green 12AP Set the tile destruction at just one tile like 4clops Red and set a the damage as fixed at 6000

    Blue 7AP create 6 2 turn blue countdown timers that generate 1 green AP when they resolve

    Black 6AP if less than 7 blue self stun 1 turn, heal for 2.5k, create 5 blue tiles

    This solution would let him work with a lot more synergy as his blue would blow up a good number of blue tiles generating his green AP but also allowing you to actually use his black much more frequently. I took the 3x3 destruction out of green as blue now has a lot of board shake but left 1 tile targeted representing smart hulk punching the perfect spot. Ideally he would be a fairly quick character who could chain his moves together like KP or LThor. Start by thinking (blue) then punch(green) then eat (black) to regain his energy from the thinking and punching.

    Obviously would need some balance testing for Blue and Black to get the right balance fewer countdown tiles or maybe no stun on black and more/less blue generated but I think some tweak of this proposed version would be very useful and playable.
  • apexpredator85apexpredator85 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 22 Just Dropped In
    Please fix this guy. I thought his addition to Marvel games was suppose to draw more interest to his story. The only game he is in and he's a joke. Not worthy of being a Hulk at all. He may be the weakest Hulk in the game right now. Totally Terrible
  • MagereMagere Age Unconfirmed Posts: 50 Match Maker
    Fixes aside, icex.. I get that you like this guy but the number of events this guy is in is getting ridiculous. for the love of God stop please. I've seen enough of the not-awesome hulk to know I'll never need to burn a roster slot for him. We have 2 awesome hulks already.
  • KonmanKonman Age Unconfirmed Posts: 410
    I sold my only TAlk, Cholk, Chulk...whatever cover....to make room for an Iceboy cover.
  • fmftintfmftint Posts: 3,642 Chairperson of the Boards
    Will he be slotted into the alphabetical 4☆ rotation bringing him up again in 2 weeks?
  • ArcanaMoonArcanaMoon Age Unconfirmed Posts: 72 Match Maker
    Cho was buffed last patch, is black now require seven blue to active. Dont know if that was the only buff, but he was
  • ErikPeterErikPeter Posts: 710 Critical Contributor
    So people despise TA Hulk, but is he that bad? Seems like 3 blue charged tiles plus green+shake is a good deal for 7 blue. Save up 14 and you're going to completely destroy the board. And no other character converts blue to green.
  • DeNappaDeNappa Posts: 918 Critical Contributor
    ErikPeter wrote:
    So people despise TA Hulk, but is he that bad? Seems like 3 blue charged tiles plus green+shake is a good deal for 7 blue. Save up 14 and you're going to completely destroy the board. And no other character converts blue to green.
    Well, there's Daken... and he also deals out some nice damage while he's at it.
  • sinnerjflsinnerjfl Posts: 1,129 Chairperson of the Boards
    ErikPeter wrote:
    So people despise TA Hulk, but is he that bad? Seems like 3 blue charged tiles plus green+shake is a good deal for 7 blue. Save up 14 and you're going to completely destroy the board. And no other character converts blue to green.

    Even if you use blue twice, you'll remove 8 green tiles, that's hardly "destroying" the board.

    And yes, he is really bad.
    Damage on green is sub-par (compare to The Thing), you can choose where you punch as an upside but its a rather small block.

    Blue relies on a CD tile, that's already a problem, 3 turns or even 2 turns, there's a good chance you just wasted that AP. And those charged tiles you just created, the AI will probably get a few since there's so little of them. Even if you do get the blue from those tiles, what are you gonna do with it exactly? Cast this garbage ability again over and over? And you gain a whopping 4 green AP if it goes off. With 21 blue AP, you can generate 12 green AP... that's awful.

    Black... probably a candidate for worst ability in the whole game. Fake healing, self-stun, requires less than 7 blue on the board (which is quite annoying to achieve). Oh yeah, you get 3 blue tiles on the board too. More blue for his useless skill.

    Worst character ever. (and he looks really tinykitty just to make sure everyone hates him)
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    He suffers from the exact same problem that Rags does and 4* Thor.

    They don't really create charged tiles as other characters create red, or blue or black like IMHB,Iceman, IF respectively. They just convert existing tiles to charged.

    4*Thor gets a pseudo pass because she creates more as well as over three colors, plus you get a benefit for leaving them on the board due to her red.

    But Rags and Cho create 3 on already established tiles, thus reducing your chance of matching them right away and negating the whole purpose of acceleration.

    Fix:

    Have Cho and rags convert random basic tiles to green or blue charged tiles respectively, as they get no bonus for having charged tiles on the board. This would go a long way to fixing them.
  • ErikPeterErikPeter Posts: 710 Critical Contributor
    sinnerjfl wrote:
    Even if you use blue twice, you'll remove 8 green tiles, that's hardly "destroying" the board.

    And yes, he is really bad.
    Damage on green is sub-par (compare to The Thing), you can choose where you punch as an upside but its a rather small block.

    Blue relies on a CD tile, that's already a problem, 3 turns or even 2 turns, there's a good chance you just wasted that AP. And those charged tiles you just created, the AI will probably get a few since there's so little of them. Even if you do get the blue from those tiles, what are you gonna do with it exactly? Cast this garbage ability again over and over? And you gain a whopping 4 green AP if it goes off. With 21 blue AP, you can generate 12 green AP... that's awful.
    Shame. I'd would've thought refreshing the board destroying green tiles would cause decent cascades, hopefully net you some of that blue charge AP, and set you up for a 6K+ targeted Excello to scrape up the hard to reach ones. Definitely more of a PvE character (relying on those CDs).
  • sinnerjflsinnerjfl Posts: 1,129 Chairperson of the Boards
    and who do I get with the 20 CP token today? This tinykitty, his black cover too. Well wasted CP icon_mad.gif
  • KonmanKonman Age Unconfirmed Posts: 410
    Konman wrote:
    I sold my only TAlk, Cholk, Chulk...whatever cover....to make room for an Iceboy cover.

    Sold another one today that I got from a Legendary Token.
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