The perverse economy of CP in PVP

simonsez

Seldom is a thesis validated so swiftly and conclusively.

stochasticism

slidecage wrote:

sc0ville wrote:

slidecage wrote:

Perhaps if those players could experience higher end play, they would understand why high scoring player "cooperate".


you mean get on line and tell each other who to attack and not attack ALSO i would expect someone with 1400 pts see a ton of people who are higher that is why you see people in season with 4000 to 5000 pts.

also dont know why you say UNSHEILD like it really means anything cause even if you have a shield on you can be seen.

Seriously stop talking about pvp, you have no idea what you're talking about. You've made a decision to handicap your roster to focus on pve, that's fine, but it means your perspective on pvp is worthless. Life is making chooses and facing consequences, you have made the choice to keep your scaling low in pve, you therefor forfeit your right to complain about pvp.

You are doing a disservice to any player that is trying to actually understand the way the game and the current meta functions. People unfamiliar with you or your roster may mistakenly think you know what you're talking about, and pay attention to you. I can't think of anything more damaging to a new player's enjoyment or success in this game.

You demonstrate your own ignorance when you say thing's like "ALSO i would expect someone with 1400 pts see a ton of people who are higher that is why you see people in season with 4000 to 5000 pts." and "also dont know why you say UNSHEILD like it really means anything cause even if you have a shield on you can be seen." Your fundamental understanding of basic pvp principles is so lacking, yet you talk with such authority I'm stunned. Allow me to introduce you to a concept known as the Dunning-Kruger effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect. The essence of which is summed up as this: Some people are so bad at the thing they're doing, that they mistakenly think themselves competent. You seem to suffer from an inability to accurately assess your own flaws, and instead attribute it to a problem with the game. Try learning from your mistakes instead of forever tilting at windmills.

I'll educate you on what Aesthetocyst is referring to: first when you say "I expect someone with 1400 pts see a ton of people who are higher than them" guess what? There isn't a magical point fairy that exists above the highest scorer in the shard, magically raining down points upon them. Getting to the top first is an ardous process of climbing, shielding, allowing others to climb, bouncing off of each other, and climbing some more. Yes, you can run out of targets with more points than you, if you climb early. this is most easily seen during off season pvps when people aren't wasting HP shielding. It's like treading water in quicksand to climb without the benefit of the people doing it first and expending their time and HP in the process.

As for the "also dont know why you say UNSHEILD like it really means anything cause even if you have a shield on you can be seen." comment. You are not visible to other players while shielded unless they already queued you up prior to you activating the shield. Any player that has that preshielded target queued, losses that queue after they hit it the first time with the (exception of double taps, which is much too advanced a concept to explain to you.) So no, you can't be "seen" if you're shielded. You are only visible prior to the shield and stored from that point on.

Please stop wasting everyone time with your posts.

Then there is a major bug then cause i shield a few weeks ago in a PVP with a few hours to go , 10 mins later i was hit and said something like you lost an attack but because you were sheild you lost no pts I even had matches say i was attacked when i had a sheild up and gained pts. Hours later i was attacked at least another 7 to 8 times. I highly doubt these people had me in their Q for hours and just sat there waiting to attack me.

This is how pvp works. Find targets while you are shielded. Hit them when you are ready to unshield. I've held good targets for 8 hours before, because that is when my shields were ready. What you have described here is how PvP actually works, not your flawed mental model for how you think PvP should work. Please try reading other people's posts to see how this works in practice rather than just posting your incorrect views.

FierceKiwi

slidecage wrote:

Then there is a major bug then cause i shield a few weeks ago in a PVP with a few hours to go , 10 mins later i was hit and said something like you lost an attack but because you were sheild you lost no pts I even had matches say i was attacked when i had a sheild up and gained pts. Hours later i was attacked at least another 7 to 8 times. I highly doubt these people had me in their Q for hours and just sat there waiting to attack me.

Yep that's a pretty serious bug. No way anyone would ever LOSE to your **** teams.

slidecage

stochasticism wrote:

slidecage wrote:

sc0ville wrote:

slidecage wrote:

Perhaps if those players could experience higher end play, they would understand why high scoring player "cooperate".


you mean get on line and tell each other who to attack and not attack ALSO i would expect someone with 1400 pts see a ton of people who are higher that is why you see people in season with 4000 to 5000 pts.

also dont know why you say UNSHEILD like it really means anything cause even if you have a shield on you can be seen.

Seriously stop talking about pvp, you have no idea what you're talking about. You've made a decision to handicap your roster to focus on pve, that's fine, but it means your perspective on pvp is worthless. Life is making chooses and facing consequences, you have made the choice to keep your scaling low in pve, you therefor forfeit your right to complain about pvp.

You are doing a disservice to any player that is trying to actually understand the way the game and the current meta functions. People unfamiliar with you or your roster may mistakenly think you know what you're talking about, and pay attention to you. I can't think of anything more damaging to a new player's enjoyment or success in this game.

You demonstrate your own ignorance when you say thing's like "ALSO i would expect someone with 1400 pts see a ton of people who are higher that is why you see people in season with 4000 to 5000 pts." and "also dont know why you say UNSHEILD like it really means anything cause even if you have a shield on you can be seen." Your fundamental understanding of basic pvp principles is so lacking, yet you talk with such authority I'm stunned. Allow me to introduce you to a concept known as the Dunning-Kruger effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E ... ger_effect. The essence of which is summed up as this: Some people are so bad at the thing they're doing, that they mistakenly think themselves competent. You seem to suffer from an inability to accurately assess your own flaws, and instead attribute it to a problem with the game. Try learning from your mistakes instead of forever tilting at windmills.

I'll educate you on what Aesthetocyst is referring to: first when you say "I expect someone with 1400 pts see a ton of people who are higher than them" guess what? There isn't a magical point fairy that exists above the highest scorer in the shard, magically raining down points upon them. Getting to the top first is an ardous process of climbing, shielding, allowing others to climb, bouncing off of each other, and climbing some more. Yes, you can run out of targets with more points than you, if you climb early. this is most easily seen during off season pvps when people aren't wasting HP shielding. It's like treading water in quicksand to climb without the benefit of the people doing it first and expending their time and HP in the process.

As for the "also dont know why you say UNSHEILD like it really means anything cause even if you have a shield on you can be seen." comment. You are not visible to other players while shielded unless they already queued you up prior to you activating the shield. Any player that has that preshielded target queued, losses that queue after they hit it the first time with the (exception of double taps, which is much too advanced a concept to explain to you.) So no, you can't be "seen" if you're shielded. You are only visible prior to the shield and stored from that point on.

Please stop wasting everyone time with your posts.

Then there is a major bug then cause i shield a few weeks ago in a PVP with a few hours to go , 10 mins later i was hit and said something like you lost an attack but because you were sheild you lost no pts I even had matches say i was attacked when i had a sheild up and gained pts. Hours later i was attacked at least another 7 to 8 times. I highly doubt these people had me in their Q for hours and just sat there waiting to attack me.

This is how pvp works. Find targets while you are shielded. Hit them when you are ready to unshield. I've held good targets for 8 hours before, because that is when my shields were ready. What you have described here is how PvP actually works, not your flawed mental model for how you think PvP should work. Please try reading other people's posts to see how this works in practice rather than just posting your incorrect views.

i was sheild beyond the end of the event so they would NOT be waiting for my sheild to drop was like 6 hours or so left total Got an 8 hour shield was doing some PVE and that is when the pop up starting showing up at the end of the PVP.

atomzed

slidecage wrote:

i was sheild beyond the end of the event so they would NOT be waiting for my sheild to drop was like 6 hours or so left total Got an 8 hour shield was doing some PVE and that is when the pop up starting showing up at the end of the PVP.

That means that it is an old queue. Someone must have queue you up b4 you shielded, so that remains in their nodes.

Seriously slidecage, your posts show your inadequate understanding of how pvp works.

slidecage

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

i was sheild beyond the end of the event so they would NOT be waiting for my sheild to drop was like 6 hours or so left total Got an 8 hour shield was doing some PVE and that is when the pop up starting showing up at the end of the PVP.

That means that it is an old queue. Someone must have queue you up b4 you shielded, so that remains in their nodes.

Seriously slidecage, your posts show your inadequate understanding of how pvp works.

saying i highly doubt someone kept me in their Q for 6 hours let alone at least 7 attacks and doubt there is a 6 hour lag in attack reports

Stax the Foyer

slidecage wrote:

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

i was sheild beyond the end of the event so they would NOT be waiting for my sheild to drop was like 6 hours or so left total Got an 8 hour shield was doing some PVE and that is when the pop up starting showing up at the end of the PVP.

That means that it is an old queue. Someone must have queue you up b4 you shielded, so that remains in their nodes.

Seriously slidecage, your posts show your inadequate understanding of how pvp works.

saying i highly doubt someone kept me in their Q for 6 hours let alone at least 7 attacks and doubt there is a 6 hour lag in attack reports

Every time I go to sleep, the three people in my queue remain there for the entire duration of my sleep. And then some.

slidecage

Stax the Foyer wrote:

slidecage wrote:

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

i was sheild beyond the end of the event so they would NOT be waiting for my sheild to drop was like 6 hours or so left total Got an 8 hour shield was doing some PVE and that is when the pop up starting showing up at the end of the PVP.

That means that it is an old queue. Someone must have queue you up b4 you shielded, so that remains in their nodes.

Seriously slidecage, your posts show your inadequate understanding of how pvp works.

saying i highly doubt someone kept me in their Q for 6 hours let alone at least 7 attacks and doubt there is a 6 hour lag in attack reports

Every time I go to sleep, the three people in my queue remain there for the entire duration of my sleep. And then some.

and you attack them with like 2 to 5 mins left in the entire event holding that slot up.. doubtful

i still say it was a bug. That is why i thought shield or not you could be seen... ATTACK and lose no big deal you lose no pts cause you was shield.
Attack and win the match you get pts while sheild

that is how i took it for what went down

aesthetocyst

slidecage wrote:

Then there is a major bug then cause i shield a few weeks ago in a PVP with a few hours to go , 10 mins later i was hit and said something like you lost an attack but because you were sheild you lost no pts I even had matches say i was attacked when i had a sheild up and gained pts. Hours later i was attacked at least another 7 to 8 times. I highly doubt these people had me in their Q for hours and just sat there waiting to attack me.

And you choose to doubt this because .... ?

Of course they don't literally sit there and wait. They selected a target (your squishy team), and went about their business. When they decided to go again, they hit you.

When you drop shield, you are fed into a LOT of player's queues. There's no law requiring those players to review and act on their queues before you re-shield. They might look at those queues hours or even days later. These events are 60hrs long, y'know. A player hitting you now may have queued you several hops ago.

I've held targets for as long as 3 weeks (in sim). The lack of imagination you're displaying here is astounding. PLEASE stop trying to speak with any level of authority in regards to aspects of the game you have no understanding of. You are potentially misinforming newer players and possible prejudicing them against correct information. Please desist.

slidecage wrote:

stochasticism wrote:

This is how pvp works. Find targets while you are shielded. Hit them when you are ready to unshield. I've held good targets for 8 hours before, because that is when my shields were ready. What you have described here is how PvP actually works, not your flawed mental model for how you think PvP should work. Please try reading other people's posts to see how this works in practice rather than just posting your incorrect views.

i was sheild beyond the end of the event so they would NOT be waiting for my sheild to drop was like 6 hours or so left total Got an 8 hour shield was doing some PVE and that is when the pop up starting showing up at the end of the PVP.

Stupefyingly you doubled down.

It's very simple. Other players attack you on their schedule. It ain't all about you. Shielding protects you from being queued more, and from losing points when those who have already queued you attack. It doesn't magically erase existing queues on other's players' clients.

If you would like help with PVP, PM (gods help me....). In the mean time, please post questions, not statements.

.

slidecage

aesthetocyst wrote:

slidecage wrote:

Then there is a major bug then cause i shield a few weeks ago in a PVP with a few hours to go , 10 mins later i was hit and said something like you lost an attack but because you were sheild you lost no pts I even had matches say i was attacked when i had a sheild up and gained pts. Hours later i was attacked at least another 7 to 8 times. I highly doubt these people had me in their Q for hours and just sat there waiting to attack me.

And you choose to doubt this because .... ?

Of course they don't literally sit there and wait. They selected a target (your squishy team), and went about their business. When they decided to go again, they hit you.

When you drop shield, you are fed into a LOT of player's queues. There's no law requiring hose players to review and act on their queues before you re-shield. They might look at those queues hours or even days later. These events are 60hrs long, y'know. A player hitting you now may have queued you several hops ago.

I've held targets for as long as 3 weeks (in sim). The lack of imagination you're displaying here is astounding. PLEASE stop trying to speak with any level of authority in regards to aspects of the game you have no understanding of. You are potentially misinforming newer players and possible prejudicing them against correct information. Please desist.

slidecage wrote:

stochasticism wrote:

This is how pvp works. Find targets while you are shielded. Hit them when you are ready to unshield. I've held good targets for 8 hours before, because that is when my shields were ready. What you have described here is how PvP actually works, not your flawed mental model for how you think PvP should work. Please try reading other people's posts to see how this works in practice rather than just posting your incorrect views.

i was sheild beyond the end of the event so they would NOT be waiting for my sheild to drop was like 6 hours or so left total Got an 8 hour shield was doing some PVE and that is when the pop up starting showing up at the end of the PVP.

Stupefyingly you doubled down.

It's very simple. Other players attack you on their schedule. It ain't all about you. Shielding protects you from being queued more, and from losing points when those who have already queued you attack. It doesn't magically erase existing queues on other's players' clients.

If you would like help with PVP, PM (gods help me....). In the mean time, please post questions, not statements.

.

point is i was shield to the end of the event so i have no clue what people are talking about waiting for the shield to drop cause it would never drop. These times wont line up but maybe i can do this

I play and pick a 6am end time, i play and happy with my points and stop at 12am (meaning 6 hours left) i pick an 8 hour shield so im sheild to the end of the event (i never play anymore so i dont break it) at 1230 or so I get a report you was attacked but lose no pts cause of the shield.. around 1245 says i was attacked again and won and get points cause of the shield. I log off from awhile I come back on around 130am to play a little bit of PVE. Nothing is posted and my pts are still there I log back off and wait and come back at 5 and play till 7am.. AT 550 or 555 (cant reemember) I get these pop ups saying you was attack attack attack attack attack attack attack (7 times) Saying i highly doubt these people kept me in their Q for 6+ hours and waited till the last 5 mins of the event to attack me.


Like i said maybe it was a bug and that is why i though you could be seen either way


bug or not really Dont care anymore cause there is really no use in even playing PVP when your now always put into nothing but max out 4 star teams after you get 200 to 300 pts and season their scores are 5000 to 6000 with 2 events to go

atomzed

slidecage wrote:

and you attack them with like 2 to 5 mins left in the entire event holding that slot up.. doubtful

I do that all the time. I load up a good queue, wait until the end of the event, un# and then finish the event with that fight. It saves me the cost of 1 shield, and I get to increase my season score. It is a very common tactic.

slidecage wrote:

i still say it was a bug. That is why i thought shield or not you could be seen... ATTACK and lose no big deal you lose no pts cause you was shield.
Attack and win the match you get pts while sheild

that is how i took it for what went down

You have 3 separate person telling you it is not a bug and you steadfastly refuse to accept our explanation. Sigh.

aesthetocyst

slidecage wrote:

there is really no use in even playing PVP when your now always put into nothing but max out 4 star teams after you get 200 to 300 pts and season their scores are 5000 to 6000 with 2 events to go

6K is a pretty modest season score.

I am a hair under 10K, and have been slacking hard all season. A great season score at this point is 20K.

Slide, seriously, educate yourself. Before whining, complaining, and pontificating in ignorance, reach out to those who know and learn. Then criticize the reality, not your own assumptions.

slidecage

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

and you attack them with like 2 to 5 mins left in the entire event holding that slot up.. doubtful

I do that all the time. I load up a good queue, wait until the end of the event, un# and then finish the event with that fight. It saves me the cost of 1 shield, and I get to increase my season score. It is a very common tactic.

slidecage wrote:

i still say it was a bug. That is why i thought shield or not you could be seen... ATTACK and lose no big deal you lose no pts cause you was shield.
Attack and win the match you get pts while sheild

that is how i took it for what went down

You have 3 separate person telling you it is not a bug and you steadfastly refuse to accept our explanation. Sigh.

i accept it but hard to belive it. i mean why wouldnt they play more to get higher then just to sit on my all that time holding up a slot....also everytime they would play someone else in another one of their slots the points for attacking me would fall big time. like i said really dont matter now. Just saying i just never knew people would do that and now i do. So they held me in their Q to get what 1 pt

slidecage

aesthetocyst wrote:

slidecage wrote:

there is really no use in even playing PVP when your now always put into nothing but max out 4 star teams after you get 200 to 300 pts and season their scores are 5000 to 6000 with 2 events to go

6K is a pretty modest season score.

I am a hair under 10K, and have been slacking hard all season. A great season score at this point is 20K.

Slide, seriously, educate yourself. Before whining, complaining, and pontificating in ignorance, reach out to those who know and learn. Then criticize the reality, not your own assumptions.

sorry mix that up should say i have 6000 pts in my season with 2 events left the top 10 in my season have between 24000 to 22500. with 2 events left.. So what is the point in playing PVP anymore when you have no chance at getting the end of season rewards

atomzed

slidecage wrote:

i accept it but hard to belive it. i mean why wouldnt they play more to get higher then just to sit on my all that time holding up a slot....also everytime they would play someone else in another one of their slots the points for attacking me would fall big time. like i said really dont matter now. Just saying i just never knew people would do that and now i do. So they held me in their Q to get what 1 pt

Maybe they load up your queue and see that it's the superduperawesome slidecage from the forum, and expect you to climb really high in pvp.... So they kept the queue fully expecting you to rise up to 5000 points.

So yah, they must be really disappointed to see that you only give them 1 pt.....

slidecage

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

i accept it but hard to belive it. i mean why wouldnt they play more to get higher then just to sit on my all that time holding up a slot....also everytime they would play someone else in another one of their slots the points for attacking me would fall big time. like i said really dont matter now. Just saying i just never knew people would do that and now i do. So they held me in their Q to get what 1 pt

Maybe they load up your queue and see that it's the superduperawesome slidecage from the forum, and expect you to climb really high in pvp.... So they kept the queue fully expecting you to rise up to 5000 points.

So yah, they must be really disappointed to see that you only give them 1 pt.....

like said really dont matter much anymore i saw it and though that was the way it work.. with people getting 20k per season no reason to play PVP and unless they change the line up it looks like maybe a new 4 star thankgiving weekend no thanks and goodbye

Stax the Foyer

slidecage wrote:

i accept it but hard to belive it. i mean why wouldnt they play more to get higher then just to sit on my all that time holding up a slot....also everytime they would play someone else in another one of their slots the points for attacking me would fall big time. like i said really dont matter now. Just saying i just never knew people would do that and now i do. So they held me in their Q to get what 1 pt

Why didn't you keep playing to get a higher score?

There's lots of good reasons, and any one that you give could apply just as well to them.

Maybe they shielded immediately after you did, and broke shield again for a final fight. Maybe their PvP adventures are also joyful romps across the Isle of Misunderstanding. Maybe they forgot about the game and squeezed in a quick match when they noticed the event was about to end.

Remember, if you felt that your score was good enough to shield, then it probably means that it's an easier match in terms of effort-to-reward ratio than the type of matches that you'd find by skipping through unshielded players.

udonomefoo

Wow, the hole just keeps getting deeper and I can't stop reading this thread.

Devil's advocate: he did say that this "bug" happened a few weeks ago. So, it's possible this was during the anniversary pvps that were bugged and allowed someone to get hit multiple times by the same person.

That is the only part of this I can try to post a reasonable defense to.

El Satanno

I'd like to shed a little light on slidecage's predicament, if I may.

In every event, I use the powers granted to me by my SSoLU membership to queue your team up in all three nodes. Then I wait for my network of spies to inform me when your shield comes down. (Of course, I'm still gaining points because that's another perk of SSoLU) Then I hit you as fast and as often as I can.

After that, I have a martini and wait for my score to rise above 1300 on its own. Easy peasy!

aesthetocyst

slidecage wrote:

atomzed wrote:

slidecage wrote:

... with people getting 20k per season no reason to play PVP and unless they change the line up it looks like maybe a new 4 star thankgiving weekend no thanks and goodbye

Slide, c'mon now. Just because someone else scores more, you say there's no point?

With so many people playing the same game, there will ALWAYS be someone (probably a lot of them) score more than you. So what? If you only play to be #1, you'll be disappointed. There's 5000 people in a season bracket. Being in the top 10% (top 500) is an achievement! It's an 'A' by the usual grading scale. Top 1000 is a 'B'. Not bad at all.

Once upon a time I practically lived this game. Poured time and money in, and best I ever did in a pvp season is 4th. Pretty good, but well short. Did I quit? Well, apparently not.

Seriously, Slide, there are plenty of players here happy to help. I know your alliance, it's a good one. No reason to be frustrated.

Good luck!