The perverse economy of CP in PVP

AtlasAxe

In the last two PVP events, I've seen some serious score inflation. The inflation is such that it is making PVP pretty much unplayable for many in my alliance. This appears to be an unintended consequence of distributing CP by placement instead of progression.

Before I go on, this is not an accusation of cheating or clamoring for more CP. It is not a complaint about the methods being used, those are largely legitimate and have their place (although they are now being taken to an extreme). It is a discussion of the perverse incentive that CP placement awards in PVP has introduced.

First, here's the top 10 from my bracket in Starfall:

1 2563
2 2534
3 2478
4 2440
5 2417
6 2401
7 2372
8 2335
9 2266
10 2226


How are these numbers achievable? One word: Line. What was once a cooperative tool to help people each other to 1300 in a PVP has become a tool to harvest points and crank your score to the max for those placement CP.

How does this work (for the uninitiated)? You join a room to cooperate on when shields are going up and allow others to queue your team with a cupcake roster in place. An example from an alliance member: 74 points for facing the featured character + level 1 IM35 and Juggs.

What is the incentive to play like this? Note the placement rewards for this event were Starlord and Patch - an undesirable 4* and a widely-covered 3*. People are not going to this degree of effort for the covers, or the HP. People who would go to the 1300 or so, collect the legendary and some HP are now pulling out every stop to get those 1-2CP. People are scraping every point they can to get that T50.

This has destroyed playability for the 3* PVP player. All these 3* covers that were achievable in T100 with scores above 650-700 or so, for those who need them? Gone. My scores in the 800-900s that would in past have gotten me some decent placement? Now not even T100 material. Opponents? Walls of Jeanbusters and fistbusters. Climbing above 600 is very difficult. Alliance members who were ignored before when they came up in queues are getting smacked hard, at much lower points. Old strategies of finding that level you are going to climb from? Forget about it. You're just an extra point now to be added to the big total.

CP in the placement awards has created a perverse incentive to form an economy of points. The CPs should be moved into the higher-level progression rewards. I'd suggest 1 in the 900s and 1 with the legendary. Either that or there needs to be a radical restructuring of placement awards to reflect the new reality of 2500 being the regular top-end.

Malcrof

This was going on looooong before CP came in.. remember, there are big prizes for season finishes.. multi 10packs and the like..

CP is nowhere near the incentive double iso and anniversary tokens were.. even in the non-glitched pvps, we saw 4ks in the anniversary events.. double iso rules them all.

woopie

4K during the anniversary week was more due to the repeat queue issue

TxMoose

i for one do not mind the cupcake practice at all. i line them up and use them myself and I'm not a line user. their points still benefit those below. this morning, after having no intention of going for 1300 in sentry, they helped me orchestrate a 200 pt hop and now I'm one match away from 1300. i don't really care what the t10 are doing if they're helping me get to 1300, which they are. i don't find it perverse in any sense, but i have no aspirations of spending the hp it would take to get up there. for those that do have those aspirations, I'm sure its frustrating, but not all time slices score like that and if you really want placement, you can find it in one of the drier slices.

and for the record, scores have been like that with the top alliances (X, villains, crew) for a looong time. nothing to do with cp.

AtlasAxe

Agreed on the anniversary, it was the repeat queue thing.

This is my 4th season where PVP has been a focus for me (counting the anniversary), probably about 6th-7th overall. I know it gets more competitive at the end, but don't recall this level of ferocity.

I can never remember a time where a score between 800-900 (or even 750 or so) would place me outside the T100. Maybe just good bracket luck, if this level is typical.

Malcrof

Atlas Axe wrote:

I can never remember a time where a score between 800-900 (or even 750 or so) would place me outside the T100. Maybe just good bracket luck, if this level is typical.

mostly good bracket luck.. If you do really well in one event, the next one you are put in a tougher bracket, unless you late join.. transversely, if you did poorly in an event, you get an easier.

I have had 1050 get me t10, and also had 1050 get me barely t100. if you are going for placement, late joins (after the first 8-10 hours) are where it's at, if you want points, iso farming, and things like that, pre-join the second you see the event.

CP is a non-factor.. personally, i didn't even check to see if they were awarded in Sentry..

AtlasAxe

I have been bounced between a couple of different slices in the last two events. 3AM Pacific this time. I thought the scores on X23 were because I unintentionally fat-fingered to an undesirable slice - 4PM Pacific on Sunday.

In summary, I guess the key test is what happens in the first event of season XXI - are people still doing this or more. Also in the inter-season PVPs.

Also, not a complaint about the method, as I mentioned above. Fine if you want to do it and have the time to invest, and as I said, no issue with cooperation to get that 1300. It just seems more extreme at the moment.

AtlasAxe

Oh, and thanks for the tips, Malcrof, I'll try them out.

cyineedsn

Bracket scores can be all over the place. In contrast to yours, my Starfall bracket finished with this as the top 10:

1517
1391
1330
1234
1070
1023
1021
1014
1011
1007

The 13th place finisher had 893, and I finished in 18th place with just 844.
In contrast, in the previous pvp I had 1k+ and barely made top 50, I think I was actually out of the top 50.

BillyBobJoe

everyone's forgetting about one thing: 5*s. In my bracket there was one guy in the top 10 who never shielded until the end. He was running near maxed SS and OML. He floated in T10 until the last 8 hours where he pushed to first place with a 2500+ score, then he finally shielded.

There are MANY reasons scores inflate. Whether they be incentives, player coordination, or better toons, it is impossible to point to any one reason. It's a combination.

Quebbster

I'm in slice 5 for Starfall, so I have 3 hours left. Bracket leader is just shy of 1100 points. The bracket makes a huge difference.

OneLastGambit

I think bracket does make a big difference here.

I finished 49th in my bracket with a measly 528 points, a feat I have never before achieved and managed to grab the patch cover I wanted and some CP too. I think OP just got an unlucky bracket. I dunno what 1st got in my bracket but it can't be that ridiculous if I finished 49

EDIT: You could argue that I benefitted from the CP at the top end as players were so focussed on finishing t10 that they did not bother hovering around for the covers below and created a clear divide between people aiming for covers (like me) and people aiming for CP

AtlasAxe

OK, so just bad luck then.

And I realized that I have already been following Malcroft's advice - I generally join with about 36 hours to go for placement. Read the post wrong.

JamieMadrox

Don't forget the 6000+ scores in SSim! Those are ruining the game too because I refuse to spend that much on SSim shields.

aesthetocyst

Refer to the Facebook Top 10 boards from August. Top Scores have been stable at that level since then....since jean grey came online.

This may have been the first time you found yourself in such a bracket. These players don't score that high because they are chasing placements rewards. They score that high because they can.

If you don't like seeing such a bracket, join later, or try a different slice. I've been 'slumming' ... First place in my bracket is at 1300 (no, it isn't me!). 2nd place is at 965. 10th is at 825.

"Cupcakes" are also nothing new...the name is new...the tactic is only recently common but has been pulled as a stunt for a year and a half. People arent climbing with such teams....they put them when they are done. And they help ANYONE who queues them gain points.

Contrast this with the "cant find any targets over X pts" complaints.....players with such complaints ought to be asking for more "cupcakes" and adopting similar gameplay. When done....give back!

simonsez

I have a hard time believing that it's CP making people run up the scores like that. That's like getting into bidding war for a sofa on ebay because there's some loose change under the cushions.

Stax the Foyer

Remember, there are 2 CP available per sub to anyone who plays PvE, with the caveat that you might not get it every sub. 2 CP for a top 10 finish in a PvE isn't a huge windfall, and it isn't driving the scores you're seeing there. They're not a new thing.

Plus, the CP generated within a high-scoring alliance from HP purchases needed to sustain that playstyle likely dwarfs the 6 CP/week they're pulling in for top 10 finishes. The ranking CP awards are a nice extra award, but it's almost certainly not changing anyone's playstyle.

DrStrange-616

BCP I've been in brackets where 1000 points wouldn't even get you top 150. That's pretty crazy, but not the result of CPs.

On a related note, the luck of the bracket draw (in all events) is my new pet peeve. I have as many points as a person in my alliance. I am barely top 200 in the season and they are easily top 50. We will both do roughly the same amount of work, the same effort, but he will receive 20 heroic tokens to my 4. That kind of blows. The level of luck involved in rewards from the above to "spin the wheel and win 20 ISO ten times" is starting to chafe. And my butt is already sore.

Gowaderacer

Go slice 3 if you want huge points and don't care about placement, go to another slice if you need placement rewards. Easy as that.

DrStrange-616

Gowaderacer wrote:

Go slice 3 if you want huge points and don't care about placement, go to another slice if you need placement rewards. Easy as that.

Except that wasn't the case for me in Starfall. Oh, the top 10 had 2k+ scores, but I had a heck of a time finding good targets. Finally gave up at about 800, and got a top 100. There might have points, but they weren't there for me. So it's not that easy.

Malcrof

simonsez wrote:

I have a hard time believing that it's CP making people run up the scores like that. That's like getting into bidding war for a sofa on ebay because there's some loose change under the cushions.

Best analogy ever. Honestly..



If they want to make CP fun, take them out of placement altogether.. and hide them. Randomly hide them.. hide them in different places every event, every sub, everywhere.. Don't say where, make it random.

Turn it into a scavenger hunt, but with no 2 the same. You want some CP, sure thing, 3 - 5 available each day.. Want to find them? have at it!

Could be things like, after 5th pvp battle (win or lose) get 1, random in 2 pve subs, random in a node of ddq, random after x points towards progression in x event.

Get creative with it.