Please end level scaling in PVE

warcin

nobody1111 wrote:

IceIX wrote:

mischiefmaker wrote:

IceIX: I think what people are interpreting from Will's comment is that scaling will persist across future sub events of Simulator; that is, that simulator round 2 will keep the same scaling as simulator round 1. This is the correct interpretation, yes?

That's pretty much exactly what was stated, yes.

and that's pretty much what people didn't want to hear, since most people already reached the point where they can barely play if it stretches out to the rest of the simulation event part it pretty much makes it unplayable therefor for large amount of people.
since after these 2 sub events are over and the next 2 sub events appear, half the people won't be able to participate in them due to the scaling, leaving the event as bad as TaT and heroic even if the scaling was much slower

Which is why scaling is the opposite of fun and, not should, but must be removed

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

Please don't turn the game into the grindy time sink the original poster desires.

Level scaling has significantly reduced the number of games you need to play to be competitive, and has made skill, roster and yes, luck matter more than just available time.

Loving your work Demiurge.

This is ****. Community scaling only benefit those with tons of time. If you join right at start yo get easy enemies, if you dont have time to finish all missions and want to return later, community will level enemies to max and you are out of luck. I want to play when i want and not be forced to play at specific times (when even start/reset) to have chance to beat missions. It turn fun into chore and im losing desire to play this.

Bacon Pants

If there were no challenge in the Hard simulator there would be no point for it. If you don't have the characters to compete than don't bother with it. Stick to easy mode which gives you your fun.

I like a challenge and I want to rip Daken, xforce, and tubby apart. It will be difficult and that is the point.

Unknown

Bacon Pants wrote:

If there were no challenge in the Hard simulator there would be no point for it. If you don't have the characters to compete than don't bother with it. Stick to easy mode which gives you your fun.

I like a challenge and I want to rip Daken, xforce, and tubby apart. It will be difficult and that is the point.

OK, then have a "hard" simulator with "hard" enemies (and if so, lock those veterans out of the "easy" simulator so they don't get to double-dip against the newbies!). Don't make a "hard" simulator with easy enemies that later arbitrarily (from the perspective of the player's experience) become hard.

Unknown

Scaling is fine in this event. I don't have to grind because I'm not worried about some new guy with a **** roster rocking a combination of rubberbanding and unscaled enemies to knock me out of my placement. But at the same time, I'm challenged, the pace has slowed down, and I'm fine with that. I log in, play a round or two here and there, and get my points. Past PVE you needed to play and grind down missions within the 8 hour windows and that was just too much.

Nemek

jozier wrote:

Scaling is fine in this event. I don't have to grind because I'm not worried about some new guy with a **** roster rocking a combination of rubberbanding and unscaled enemies to knock me out of my placement. But at the same time, I'm challenged, the pace has slowed down, and I'm fine with that. I log in, play a round or two here and there, and get my points. Past PVE you needed to play and grind down missions within the 8 hour windows and that was just too much.

This is definitely my favorite part of this event. I don't have to play 4 hours a day just to keep position? Heck yeah!

Puritas

jozier wrote:

Scaling is fine in this event. I don't have to grind because I'm not worried about some new guy with a **** roster rocking a combination of rubberbanding and unscaled enemies to knock me out of my placement. But at the same time, I'm challenged, the pace has slowed down, and I'm fine with that. I log in, play a round or two here and there, and get my points. Past PVE you needed to play and grind down missions within the 8 hour windows and that was just too much.

Pretty much word for word what my experience also.
If you can't clear hard mode, maybe you guys aren't ready for it.
Also I've just cleared normal mode with level 20 buffed characters, so if you "raelly raelly can't beat them unless you start RIGHT AWAY ZOMG" maybe you should re-evaluate your gameplay

Unknown

I have no problem with the scaling for this PvE event. The ONLY thing I have a problem with is that against Spidey, I can't use Spidey so no stuns LoL

Guess this is how it will be after the Spidey-nerf, not being able to play against anything about 150.

Unknown

Scaling is getting out of hand. I cleared heroic and normal several times but the fights went from fun to a pain to plain irritation to impossible. What's the point of putting pvp style rankings in pve content. We are obviously not on an even playing field so the rewards should just be from progression. Why would any comparison of how fast someone with a few 120s kills 200+ Vs someone with a bunch of 85s killing lvl 100s happen? Plain stupid. Or how about when those new 50 and below teams have a much easier time getting higher ranks and acquiring 3-4* covers?

Please take the pvp scoring system out of the pve content. It doesn't work, no one knows what the thought process was behind it but it clearly doesn't reward players who put in more time and have played longer or have more kills etc

Vohnkar

Qikone wrote:

Funny thing about that. I spent money before they made these changes and now I won't spend any.

Same with me. I've spent some money early on to get rooster slots, and finally bought the steam DLCs when they were on sale to get some iso to lvl my heroes and to get the rest of roosters slots I needed. I would have spent more money eventually to get more rooster, to enter tournaments, etc... but if they continue like that i won't buy anything anymore. It's not fun to be unable to play due to lvling minions. I started yesterday the event and I was happy because for the first time in last 3 weeks I could start to play an event. Today, everything scaled and I don't even bother to replay some missions because they appear as lvl 80+ and although I'm able to beat them with some boosts, they destroy my rooster.

On Hard mode I've been able to do 2 missions using boosts (+3 all AP, + 3 blue, +3 green) and blew up the enemy with storms blue, but boosts aren't cheap, and Im unable to lvl my champs if I use boosts, (not to mention that +3 all AP its HP and I use them to rooster/shields). So I don't bother to play hard mode.

I'm hoping that they finally realize that they are destroying PvE events, for me they were fun. I have a mid lvl rooster with 50-86s as my mains. I was able to beat almost any encounter, some of them only with boosts, and the last missions on every event even with boosts I couldn't beat them. It was fine, I wasn't expecting to beat everything without having 3* heroes, but now due to the leveling It's just boring, I see myself doing the first couple of missions and as soon as they start leveling I give up, I prefer to be a punchbag on LR than playing PvE scaling nightmare events.

Unknown

Vohnkar wrote:

Qikone wrote:

Funny thing about that. I spent money before they made these changes and now I won't spend any.

Same with me. I've spent some money early on to get rooster slots, and finally bought the steam DLCs when they were on sale to get some iso to lvl my heroes and to get the rest of roosters slots I needed. I would have spent more money eventually to get more rooster, to enter tournaments, etc... but if they continue like that i won't buy anything anymore. It's not fun to be unable to play due to lvling minions. I started yesterday the event and I was happy because for the first time in last 3 weeks I could start to play an event. Today, everything scaled and I don't even bother to replay some missions because they appear as lvl 80+ and although I'm able to beat them with some boosts, they destroy my rooster.

On Hard mode I've been able to do 2 missions using boosts (+3 all AP, + 3 blue, +3 green) and blew up the enemy with storms blue, but boosts aren't cheap, and Im unable to lvl my champs if I use boosts, (not to mention that +3 all AP its HP and I use them to rooster/shields). So I don't bother to play hard mode.

I'm hoping that they finally realize that they are destroying PvE events, for me they were fun. I have a mid lvl rooster with 50-86s as my mains. I was able to beat almost any encounter, some of them only with boosts, and the last missions on every event even with boosts I couldn't beat them. It was fine, I wasn't expecting to beat everything without having 3* heroes, but now due to the leveling It's just boring, I see myself doing the first couple of missions and as soon as they start leveling I give up, I prefer to be a punchbag on LR than playing PvE scaling nightmare events.

rooster slots...can't get passed rooster slots

Unknown

Puritas wrote:

Pretty much word for word what my experience also.
If you can't clear hard mode, maybe you guys aren't ready for it.
Also I've just cleared normal mode with level 20 buffed characters, so if you "raelly raelly can't beat them unless you start RIGHT AWAY ZOMG" maybe you should re-evaluate your gameplay

Why should those who start on easy enemies get headstart and others need to try catch them on much harder enemies? This isnt game about skill, or roster. This is game about time - to be available at times game forces you to (to join "right" bracket, at end of event/pvp to not be knocked down at last moment due to rubberbanding). Being available at right time is more important than anything else in this game.

Want challenge and hard missions? Fine create them. But make them same difficulty for everyone no mater when they want to play.

Unknown

nicholasjohnconger wrote:

I have no problem with the scaling for this PvE event. The ONLY thing I have a problem with is that against Spidey, I can't use Spidey so no stuns LoL

Guess this is how it will be after the Spidey-nerf, not being able to play against anything about 150.

Yeah, there are selected level 230 battles I can do without Spidey, but something like the Daken/X-Force/Maggia fight would almost certainly be impossible without him. Maybe you could get lucky with the timing of creating a bunch of Daken strike tiles and then Loki-ing them into gigantic protect tiles that make you mostly invincible (at least until they get matched away) but that's not very reliable.

The scaling is silly because it means different people are up against different challenges. I can see that some of the stuff I beat at 230 last night is back down to like 170-190 now. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Set a challenge level and stick to it.

Unknown

Zhirrzh wrote:

nicholasjohnconger wrote:

I have no problem with the scaling for this PvE event. The ONLY thing I have a problem with is that against Spidey, I can't use Spidey so no stuns LoL

Guess this is how it will be after the Spidey-nerf, not being able to play against anything about 150.

Yeah, there are selected level 230 battles I can do without Spidey, but something like the Daken/X-Force/Maggia fight would almost certainly be impossible without him. Maybe you could get lucky with the timing of creating a bunch of Daken strike tiles and then Loki-ing them into gigantic protect tiles that make you mostly invincible (at least until they get matched away) but that's not very reliable.

The scaling is silly because it means different people are up against different challenges. I can see that some of the stuff I beat at 230 last night is back down to like 170-190 now. There's no rhyme or reason to it. Set a challenge level and stick to it.

Yea, I suppose you can beat those 230 missions with anybody as long as you get a bunch of cascades. The Loki/Daken strike tiles is actually a pretty good idea, hadn't really thought about that.

True that I would enjoy the set a challenge and stick to it, but I actually do appreciate the levels lowering for the SUPER tough levels that nobody can beat. Suppose you can also say that they shouldn't design a level that nobody could beat in the first place, but I'll take any lower levels I can get LoL

Unknown

How about a new bracketing system for PvE: Those with 5-blue Spidey and those without?

Unknown

thglump wrote:

Puritas wrote:

Pretty much word for word what my experience also.
If you can't clear hard mode, maybe you guys aren't ready for it.
Also I've just cleared normal mode with level 20 buffed characters, so if you "raelly raelly can't beat them unless you start RIGHT AWAY ZOMG" maybe you should re-evaluate your gameplay

Why should those who start on easy enemies get headstart and others need to try catch them on much harder enemies? This isnt game about skill, or roster. This is game about time - to be available at times game forces you to (to join "right" bracket, at end of event/pvp to not be knocked down at last moment due to rubberbanding). Being available at right time is more important than anything else in this game.

Want challenge and hard missions? Fine create them. But make them same difficulty for everyone no mater when they want to play.

Why should those who choose to wait for an easier bracket get an easier chance at progression rewards? That's what a lot of people don't seem realize. Your bracket's rubberbanding, as long as they haven't changed the basic principle, is based on every other bracket's progress.

So if you joined 24 hours after the event started, your battles would be worth a lot more points than someone who joined 24 hours earlier. But you're wishing that you got the same level of enemy they did, but for your extra points!

So you get to join late, not play as much, but basically benefit from everyone else who played to rubberband to progression rewards (placement is not as big a deal because the event is bracketed to when you choose to enter with all the other johnny-come-latelies).

So that's partly why a level raise is not a big deal if you truly analyze it by virtue of the progression rewards and the context of your own bracket.

Unknown

So, if community scaling is to address people waiting late and rubberbanding to get ahead, get rid of rubber banding.

Oh but then people who join first get the most points and people who can't join until later get left behind! Fine, get rid of point refreshes and have points drop to 0 instead of 1.

This means a single full clear gets you all possible points, you can grind some more to get all the drops if the 20 Iso fairy won't leave you alone but you wont have any more points than anyone else.

But then everyone who can complete a full run is then tied for #1 and gets all the rewards! Ok, so what? Heaven forbid someone who has some real life butt in and is less able to play get a cover. Patch, Ares, and Punisher were handed out like candy, many people were able to get close to max (if not max) covers for them. DD covers, not so much. Psylocke, also looking, not so much (will wait and see how the sub rewards play out).

But if everyone has a max cover [Insert Hero Here] I'm not a special snowflake! Not true! People who play more will have more Iso to inject into newly acquired heroes so will still be able to beat people who don't have a lot of time in PvP.

Puritas

thglump wrote:

Puritas wrote:

Pretty much word for word what my experience also.
If you can't clear hard mode, maybe you guys aren't ready for it.
Also I've just cleared normal mode with level 20 buffed characters, so if you "raelly raelly can't beat them unless you start RIGHT AWAY ZOMG" maybe you should re-evaluate your gameplay

Why should those who start on easy enemies get headstart and others need to try catch them on much harder enemies? This isnt game about skill, or roster. This is game about time - to be available at times game forces you to (to join "right" bracket, at end of event/pvp to not be knocked down at last moment due to rubberbanding). Being available at right time is more important than anything else in this game.

Want challenge and hard missions? Fine create them. But make them same difficulty for everyone no mater when they want to play.

Because by the time scaling kicks in rubberbanding also does, so you're getting more points for the tougher fights.

Unknown

I think there should be a preset level (or lower, if the community somehow sucked enough at that mission to lower it) for all the missions you have not beat yet so you're not locked out of first time reward just for starting late. But after that it should be fair game.

The scaling is quite fine. This way it lets everyone play less so you don't have a stupid arms race. What used to happen is that you THINK you're coming close to #1 by beating some mission 10 times, except the bracket leader comes back and beats the same mission 20 more times to reestablishes his unassailable lead. Now it's more like you beat it once and can't beat it again, bracket leader beats it 5 times and have an equally unassailable lead. This eliminates the pointless grinds that never actually got you closer to the bracket leader (because that guy can almost always grind when his position is in danger) and everyone can actually do something else for a change. The fact is if you can't beat the Wolverine + Daken mission now, you were never going to be anywhere close to #1 in any older system either compared to the guys who can beat it. The only difference is that you no longer have to grind out for 3 hours thinking you had a chance before reality kicks in.

Not sure why people are complaining about the length of the battles. This is nothing compared to Heroic Oscorp. Wolverine + Daken does take a long time, but that's because you've to play very defensively until you have complete control. Once you hijacked a Threaten the match is over in 5 rounds, and even without using such party tricks, their 10K HP really isn't as much as it appears given that your boosted character list is actually quite good.

Eddiemon

nicholasjohnconger wrote:

I have no problem with the scaling for this PvE event. The ONLY thing I have a problem with is that against Spidey, I can't use Spidey so no stuns LoL

Guess this is how it will be after the Spidey-nerf, not being able to play against anything about 150.

I haven't even attempted that fight because it's worth too little for how annoying it looks, and nobody in any of my brackets is grinding every mission into the ground. As a result I can beat up invisible woman 5 times and skip spidey entirely.