PVP point earnings DRASTICALLY unfair!!

Unknown

I came back after a year hiatus. I now realized why I quit. So frustrating pushing one battle only to be hit for 100 points in the duration of that battle. I've now transitioned to marvel future fight. Pure fun, no frustration to get my marvel fix. D3 will not be getting anymore money from me.

This is really also a carry over of feelings from the galactus event.

Unknown

This is one of the most frustrating things in pvp. I just recently started to play pvp more seriously than getting to 300 and stopping after the token towards the end of last season. It is really bothersome getting hit for huge amounts constantly and being able to "retaliate" for such a small amount. To take that a step further is when the same person hits you 3-4+ times yielding them 200-250+ points and it is not worth it at all to "retaliate" because it's only netting you 7-12 points total. I see a lot of reserved comments where people are saying they would have to skip through tons of people to keep finding you. That really isn't the case because it's happened to me several times and seems to be happening to more people. One of the instances for me I had gotten hit 4 times by the same person in less than 15 mins.
While I understand the pvp etiquettes, and peoples opinions on hitting the same target constantly, I really don't blame the player for doing it. It's ultimately the games fault for allowing this to happen! Anyways those 2 things are very annoying and know your not the only ones gears it grinds.

Unknown

Moon Roach wrote:

MonteChristo wrote:

Feature: Your shield purchase is in a queue, and if a battle is processed on the server before your shield purchase, you lose points even though "shielded".

Workaround: As soon as you shield, go into event rewards, check your rank, and for good measure the top ranked as well. That forces the server to prioritise your transactions, and your shield is recorded more quickly.

I'm talking about being attacked almost two hours after shielding..
So how is that explainable???...

Tannen

shayne78 wrote:

Now in this situation I did not retaliate against the player yet they somehow managed to find me consecutively 10 times in a row in less than an hour.

If it is literally the same person, hitting you in pvp quickly,10 times in a row for 40+ points each time you've been "sniping" people and someone has decided to "teach" you the error of your ways. Try to wait 10 minutes after you queue someone to hit them. If you don't wait for people to reshield and take points off them, they'll get cranky.

Heartburn

j12601 wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Also, defensive wins are annoying. Why if someone fights me and loses do I get 10 points if I'm lucky? Likely that guy lost more points than that.

It was changed because it used to be exploitable when they reworked the points awarded for wins and losses. When you lost below a certain points threshold your losses would be less than you'd actually lose. It used to be that the fastest way to get to 1k was to get a retreat chain going. Everyone climbs to 6-700 and finds each other. Then you start retreating. If you lost 25, they'd get 25+.
You would all retreat person 1 up to say 1k. They'd get the progression reward, and then start retreating to the second player in the chain. Since you could do this with the loaner and all of your throwaway characters, it didn't cost health packs and you "A Team" was still out of defense. If one of those wanted placement, or was planning on shielding, they'd be the last in the chain and keep the generated points.

cause finding an efficient way to play with your alliance to get the trickle of rewards they hand out is bad we all have lives outside of this game we want to get back to so we find the quickest way. while i didn't utilize this approach i tip my hat to these fine ladies and gentlemen. Who's fault is it really that people don't want to play it as intended if there is an easier and faster way to do it. I.e. bring on the iron dagger for lvling up smith in skyrim. [also they didn't patch it to remove the exploit like some other games (>.>) MPQ] but i forgot we are suppose to lose, my bad guys.

Quebbster

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Chrono_Tata wrote:

As a rule of thumb, never hit anyone that will get you less than 40 points.

Jeez, if I did that I'd hit nothing but Hulkbuster teams or...no that would be it. Most of the time I'm getting 30-38 points in PvP.

Hulkbuster may look intimidating, but on defense he's not that bad actually. If you want to progress beyond a certain point in PvP you are going to have to learn to deal with him, but he's definitely beatable by a boosted 3* team.

Unknown

Moon Roach wrote:

MonteChristo wrote:

This has happened A LOT to me recently... I shield hop up to 9xx points and raise another shield. My score "freezes" at say 976. Next thing I know MINUTES later, I notice that my score is 930. And eventually I see the notice that I had been attacked, despite my shield going up and locking my original score MINUTES ago.

I'm sure this happens to everyone the higher up you climb, but I've only noticed it recently and it's beyond annoying.

I'm sure there's a techical explaination about if you're being attacked while you shield your score is subject to the rules of that battle... Yada yada yada give me my points back. It's just frusturating. Explaining to me how I got stabbed doesn't make it hurt any less...

That's a well-known feature with a well-known workaround that's become less well-known as time passes.

Feature: Your shield purchase is in a queue, and if a battle is processed on the server before your shield purchase, you lose points even though "shielded".

Workaround: As soon as you shield, go into event rewards, check your rank, and for good measure the top ranked as well. That forces the server to prioritise your transactions, and your shield is recorded more quickly.

It's pants, it shouldn't be necessary, but it's the best way to make sure your shield is recorded as soon as possible.

I sincerely thank you for this insight! I find it kind of ridiculous that little hacks like these need to be employed in order for this game to work as advertised. I'll just put this up as another inexplicable MPQ hoop one must jump through.

Blahahah

Here's the thing, and this is going to be a dissenting opinion so bear with me...

PvP earnings are drastically fair. Now what do I mean by this...
In the span of one night, I got attacked exactly 11 times and lost 135 pts.
For the sake of evenness, lets say the numbers are 10 times for 150 pts, so roughly 15 points per loss.
I could remake those points in a matter of 5 games, give or take. Assuming a loaner and even assuming I have to spend 2 health packs on both character every single time, I'm still going to be gaining those points back. Usually, though, I don't have to revive both characters and I earn a net gain of points. This is because your point loss and the scaling of the point gain from people whom are at the previous level are slanted in your favor. If you lose 135 pts, the nodes will grow to the point where making that up is easy, and then some.

Now lets say its your example of 400 points 10x in the span of one hour. Either your team is so bunk that he can just keep slogging into you 10 times without stopping and each match takes a short while, or you keep fighting him back which allows him to keep finding you and fighting you. Judging by him taking anywhere from 50-30 points from you every single game and you only recieving 22 by the end of it, I'd reckon you're at about 1000pts and he would have to be around... the 400 mark, give or take. THAT is the level of difference, and not only that, you would have to keep winning other and he would have to keep losing other matches in order for you to have lost that 400 points and him still be worth only 22 to you.

To be percise, you'd have to be at exactly 1000, he would have to be exactly at 500, and for every 50 points he took, you'd have to win back another 25 from someone else and he would have to lose 25 of those points to someone else within that hour every match in order to make it to the point where 400 points is even feasable to have lost to him. I'm not sure what kind of team you run, but if its gotten you to that high of a mark it would be (or should be) impossible for someone to fight 10x in a row nonstop within the span of an hour without losing once, and yet his team be so far below you that the point change is what it is.

For him to be worth 22 points at its maximum for each node, despite losing 400 points you would still have to be another 200-ish points above his score. Meaning your node would either be so high in point value and yet so easy to beat that you shouldn't be there in the first place because everyone else would eat your node, OR somehow in an hour someone managed to lose every single point he milked out of you barring a small percentage of it (about 25%) thus resulting in his point value still being so low.


So out of curiosity, please tell me your score and placement beforehand, your team, and the team he used against you. Not that I don't believe you, but numerically speaking what you are describing is near impossible within the span of time you claim. Even being generous to say the matches would only take 5 minutes, he would have to, at whatever rank he is in, queue into someone so far above his normal set of people every time, win every time, never need to heal more than one character at a time, and lose to someone who is doing the same to his score and also facing his same delimma of someone taking 50% of the points every single time in order to maintain the particular balance your claim would require to exist.

Above that, with consideration to his ability to clear your team and not need to heal his characters very often, you'd also somehow have to not lose to anyone else and find a team equally as lucrative to fight, with equal ease and equal innecessity to heal your own team. I shouldn't have to mention that based on bracketing that wouldn't be very possible. Even moreso in certain slices.

So please, for the sake of the case because I REALLY DO want to believe what you are saying, give the information requested so I can figure out exactly what went on. As much grief as the game's matchmaking gets, its not really plausable that this degree of issue would emerge. The system isn't perfect, but it isn't utterly broken beyond repair.


50 + 47 + 45 + 43 + 41 + 39 + 37 + 35 + 33 + 30 would be the closest sample score I could garner for what he would gain in exactly 10 attacks, removing 400 points from you and adding 400 to him.
However, losses and wins aren't direct numeric value, so he would be gaining roughly 10 or 12 points more per match than you would be losing, give or take as if you are as far above him as would make this possible he'd gain about 70.
So giving it the value of say... an even 10 points per win more, he would be gaining 500 points and you'd be losing 400, causing a net shift of about 900 points difference.

In spite of this, you can still only gain 22 points from him, something that, if you had fallen below his score at some point, would be a touch higher (around 27 or 30). This means that somehow, the gap between the both of you would be in the area of 700-900 points, and he would have to lose points elsewhere.

Herein lies the issue. If he only gained a presumed 40 points from his last win, with you losing 30 (again assuming you never fell below his point value somehow), that means you'd be just above his level (likely in that presumed 200-ish range mentioned before). The only way this would be possible is if he climbed from literally 100 points and you fell from 1100 points. 100 + 400 = 500 and 1100-400 = 700. This is assuming that he didn't even gain those extra 10 points, to which if he did you'd have to be falling from around the 1300-1400 mark.

So he would have to have somehow queued into someone roughly 1k points above him 10x within the hour, won every single time, lost about 25%-50% of the points he would have gained to someone else who would be recieving half of his point value due to scaling (which if he started at base 100 would be impossible), and then beat that 1k+ team without losing a single time in relatively quick matches.

So either you are in the scariest slice imaginable where 100pt teams are running amok and eating one another ala Marvel Zombies...
Or something doesn't add up. Regardless, more info is required to make a truly informed decision.

Raffoon

Your thread is feedback about PVP. Please prepare yourself as this will soon be moved to a forum that no one reads.

Koorogi_859

by Raffoon
Your thread is feedback about PVP. Please prepare yourself as this will soon be moved to a forum that no one reads.

We get it. You're upset. Please stop getting on other forum members threads and making it about you.

jimstarooney

Its not all unfair,climbed to 900 the night b4 and then the day after the retals i hit helped me climb bk up to 850 i dont mind that

Tannen

Blahahah wrote:

Not that I don't believe you, but numerically speaking what you are describing is near impossible within the span of time you claim.

Impossible? Not at all. The reason that you're saying that it's impossible is because you're assuming that the attacker is currently trying to progress upwards in score. If OP was hit for 40+ points, 10 times in a row in less than an hour by the same person, then the attacker is targeting OP deliberately. They simply have to lose - dumping points - to alliance members, until they are below OP again. This then allows him to attack for 40+ points each time.

Xenoberyll

Tannen wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Not that I don't believe you, but numerically speaking what you are describing is near impossible within the span of time you claim.

Impossible? Not at all. The reason that you're saying that it's impossible is because you're assuming that the attacker is currently trying to progress upwards in score. If OP was hit for 40+ points, 10 times in a row in less than an hour by the same person, then the attacker is targeting OP deliberately. They simply have to lose - dumping points - to alliance members, until they are below OP again. This then allows him to attack for 40+ points each time.

makes you question if enforcers are actually worth the trouble when the victims don't even realize that they're being taught a lesson

Blahahah

Tannen wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Not that I don't believe you, but numerically speaking what you are describing is near impossible within the span of time you claim.

Impossible? Not at all. The reason that you're saying that it's impossible is because you're assuming that the attacker is currently trying to progress upwards in score. If OP was hit for 40+ points, 10 times in a row in less than an hour by the same person, then the attacker is targeting OP deliberately. They simply have to lose - dumping points - to alliance members, until they are below OP again. This then allows him to attack for 40+ points each time.

That ideal makes the situation even more unlikely.

Herein lies the problem.

They have to be doing this attack, coordinating it all and balancing the points...
In the span of 1 hour.

And for them to do so successfully, he would again have to win every single match in a timely fashion, they would have to time their wins to his timing as well lest they risk pulling him too low to find the other person in queue again or pull in too many points, and even with all of that in consideration he would have to skip through everyone at his current lower point level until he managed upon someone who would be a decent grade of points above him. Even given that matches only took 4 minutes at a time, that still leaves him with only 2 minutes to find the person again, have his allience mates find him again, and that also assumes no variation in short match time.

No one contested that the OP was specifically targetted, but thats assuming his numbers are completely accurate or truthful.
Also for him to lose exactly 400 points, he would have to lose either 40 points exact every single time, OR he would have to lose more, then less, than 40 points each time. If the system were operating as you said, the exactness of those numbers wouldn't be possible to achieve. Eventually the allience-partners get too high in ranking meaning they would be siphoning less away from him, meaning we have to assume out of the 10 matches, somehow they managed to figure a way to keep him in that sweet spot while staying there themselves.

Add also that while all of this is going on, we have to assume that no one else is losing points, and that the OP in question was at a score point where the siphon out would equal his total losses, meaning those other allience members would also have to be at specific point values. As per my math before, for the OP to still be worth a 40 point loss (in that neighborhood) or more after 10 losses, the person who is attacking them must lose about half of his points and the OP would have to gain about half of those points back, otherwise the fall/climb would be too severe and those point values wouldn't exist.

For that to happen, the person attacking him would have to siphon off about 25 points and the OP would have to gain about 25 points (assuming a 50 point loss). Its not enough to simply remove the points from one side because to assume a stagnant attacker while the OP simply drops in value and yet retains the point value would be assuming that literally every point he gains is taken by someone else. Even assuming 2 at a time and assuming he is at the bare minimum value where he could go from 50-30 points and retain a 400 point balance exact, the attackers wouldn't be able to cover the point value difference and would have to swap off every 2 matches.

With 3 people per siphon the point values are a bit more believable but then you're using in the area of 19 people to achieve the goal of one specific person lowering this other person by this much of an amount when with that many people you could do that exact same thing in a larger span with less effort, in less time. Thats assuming, also, that these 3 people are able to do at least 2 siphons a piece. If they cannot because of shifting point values, or if it isn't enough, you're either using more people than available or someone mapped the numbers to such a percise degree that they were able to provide this exact situation without any variance.

That person probably shouldn't exist in MPQ, and if he did I doubt he would waste his time so one person from his allience can whittle down another random person without having any actual gain himself out of it instead of, I don't know, having multiple members simply mob and group-snipe this individual into the dirt while also raising their standing.

You could fathom that they could go with 4 people at a time, but then you'd be using more people than are actually in that given allience.

Meaning it would take the effort of 10+ people all of a semi-perfect point balance and timing all finding the same person, all fighting him and siphoning away the points to a certain degree, and then him winning another match against this new individual all in the span of no more than 6 minutes a cycle. Mind you, these allience members would have to go even faster to the point of only about 3 minutes per match with no losses.

So in other words, for the suspension of belief to be lifted, not only would he require...

- A specific point balance allowing him to always be worth a high amount
- An abnormal queue spot in which players vastly below him can easily find him in short amounts of time
- A team weak enough to be easily defeated by this one specific other player
- A team strong enough to not be easily defeated by any other player
- An attacker who is sitting at a level where a 70-40 point gain is constant
- At least 10 other players whom would be able to siphon off those 70-40 points to some degree
- The attacker would need a team able to easily beat the original player within 6 minutes every time, counting requeue.
- The attacker would need a team easily beatatble by the other 10 players
- The attacker would need a team that isn't easily beaten by anyone else at that level
- The attacker would need an abnormal queue spot in which the other 10 players can find him almost instantly
- Those 10 other players would need teams capable of beating the attacker's team
- To offset his point gain, those players would need to beat the attacker's team in the span of about 3 minutes a game at the most, sometimes twice in a row
- Those 10 other players would have to coordinate almost perfectly to ensure the attacker's point values never rise to the point where he doesn't gain enough
- Those 10 other players would have to have teams not easily defeated by other players at their level


When you list out all of the necessities and then consider the numbers behind it, you'll have to pardon me again if I feel like the idea that all of this is happening in the span of 1 hour is a bit hard to consider. Even moreso when you consider the sheer effort that would have to go into it by more than simply the "enforcer" just to allow only him to attack the enemy.

Whoever did it is the most efficent, percise, yet inefficent and ineffective allience I've ever heard of.

Xenoberyll

You're calculating too much into rough numbers. Who knows if he lost 385 points or 410 and is rounding it to 400? Maybe he got hit "only" 9 times. Whatever, it doesn't matter really. Fact is here are people who "enforce" for their alliances. And yes, they manage to dump points and hit their subject often enough to spoil some of its fun.

Blahahah

Xenoberyll wrote:

You're calculating too much into rough numbers. Who knows if he lost 385 points or 410 and is rounding it to 400? Maybe he got hit "only" 9 times. Whatever, it doesn't matter really. Fact is here are people who "enforce" for their alliances. And yes, they manage to dump points and hit their subject often enough to spoil some of its fun.

For someone to do what he described, that person would have to calculate that much into rough numbers to get the results.

Even if we assume it was 9 hits (even more unlikely) or lost 385 or 410, his numbers still don't make sense. The whole situation doesn't.

"enforce" is one thing, but the amount of people it would take goes far beyond it. Hence why I'm not saying I don't believe him, but frankly speaking, the numbers don't match his story in any way whatsoever.

If he is just complaining to complain, thats fine and dandy. Lying is rude though.

simonsez

Why are we so hung up on the details?

In the Blade PvP, one of my alliance-mates was hit 25+ times by the same guy. I know he's telling the truth, because I know the guy who did this will operate in this way if you do something to piss him off. And it doesn't take much to piss him off. It doesn't really matter how rapidly the 25+ hits came, and it doesn't really matter how many points were lost. But it's a royal pain in the **** when you get targeted like this. Regardless of the specific details contained in the OP's story, there's no reason why **** like this should be allowed to go on.

OneLastGambit

simonsez wrote:

Why are we so hung up on the details?

In the Blade PvP, one of my alliance-mates was hit 25+ times by the same guy. I know he's telling the truth, because I know the guy who did this will operate in this way if you do something to piss him off. And it doesn't take much to piss him off. It doesn't really matter how rapidly the 25+ hits came, and it doesn't really matter how many points were lost. But it's a royal pain in the **** when you get targeted like this. Regardless of the specific details contained in the OP's story, there's no reason why **** like this should be allowed to go on.

this doesn't ever happen to me but I'm in agreement that it never should.

On a separate point - if they just made retal fights worth more then people would think twice about hitting the same guy again.

Blahahah

simonsez wrote:

Why are we so hung up on the details?

In the Blade PvP, one of my alliance-mates was hit 25+ times by the same guy. I know he's telling the truth, because I know the guy who did this will operate in this way if you do something to piss him off. And it doesn't take much to piss him off. It doesn't really matter how rapidly the 25+ hits came, and it doesn't really matter how many points were lost. But it's a royal pain in the **** when you get targeted like this. Regardless of the specific details contained in the OP's story, there's no reason why **** like this should be allowed to go on.

Because there is a difference between someone running their face into you for 4 hours and draining your points slowly, and someone organizing a strike raid on your points within a single hour.
Also there's a difference between someone managing to milk out 400 points in 10 games, and someone milking 300 points out of 20 games.

One of them is a person with an vendetta making inefficent decisions to continue to attack the same person, the other is an allience-wide concentrated organized assassination.


Should it happen? Sure. Its not proper, but there shouldn't be a forced limit because things get really thin up at the top of the bracket.
Did it happen? Thats what I'm curious about. Things happening is one thing, but I want facts. I wanna know who he was using, who the enemy was using, and so on.
Otherwise its hard to back his complaint because for all I know, he got punched 20 times because he was using a team of lv 117 Squerral girl, Doc Oct, and Punisher and managed to lose 300 points because someone logically saw an incredibly weak team and took advantage.

I can't deny that people do target specific people, but the circumstances make me question validity, as it should with anyone.

simonsez

Blahahah wrote:

One of them is a person with an vendetta making inefficent decisions to continue to attack the same person, the other is an allience-wide concentrated organized assassination.

I'm not even sure which you're saying is which. In the case of my alliance mate, it was clearly the latter. In the case of the OP, I suspect it was also the latter, because you'd really have to go out of your way to hit the same person 10 times in a row. I can't imagine that this guy didn't also have a beef with the OP. And in either case, it's inefficient attacking, because you're not gaining the points you otherwise would be by hitting better targets. They're not looking to gain points during this, they're looking to send a message... ie "GTFO of my shard"