PVP point earnings DRASTICALLY unfair!!

Unknown

Just on average how many people have quit playing PvP due to the point earning differential? I know that over half of my alliance does not play PvP due to point earnings!! The fact that one person can hit me for 400 points alone in a continuous row and if I retaliate just as many times as the player attacked me I only earn 22 points?!?!
That is utterly ridiculous, and this system of earning points is reason there are a large number of players who will not play PvP. Something needs to be done. I myself would think the developers would adjust this due to the fact they lose revenue from the purchase of shields, boosts, etc.. that are used during play. I honestly do not understand why so many people continue to play at such a disadvantage while wasting their money and time invested.

Arctic_One

Both PvP and PvE have major shortcomings. PvP with the unknown point value of any given match, the losing up to 17 matches (my personal best/worst) while playing just one, getting a dozen retaliations while shielded and on & on. Pve being a total chore with its play on a schedule, set grind times, scaling, unbalanced point values, overpowered opponents and on & on. Both of these things have gone on for too long.

People are quitting a game they mostly enjoy due to:
frustration & disappointment,
lack of improvement (different is not always better),
lack of faith (as in some of the comments from the business side),
lack of trust (again, some comments insulting the intelligence of the player base),
lack of foresight (server crashes AGAIN, update crashes game AGAIN, overpromise/underdeliver AGAIN)
and on & on.

Your player base wants a better user interface, you gave them different/useless.
Your player base wants a non-competitive game play, you gave them DDQ which I can play for 20 minutes per 24 hours. Your player base wants a way to progress TO a 4* roster, you gave them unattainable achievement rewards.
Your player base wants to say "This IS the BEST mobile app bar none!" but cannot.

I'm not sure how many people first go online for reviews/information/specifications of things they are considering to invest time and/or money in. I di remember that I spent about 45 minutes on this forum reading BEFORE I decided to download the app on my phone. Due to the general tone that your player base enjoyed themselves, the game was improving consistently and the overall lack of complaints.

Dragon_Nexus

I'd said a few months back that the points in PvP had gone down, people didn't seem to agree.
I remember when they first increased the points earned I was able to find 40-70 point fights pretty much every time, maybe the occasional 30-40 pointer when I got higher up. But now it seems a lot closer to how it used to be, if I find someone worth 50 points it's usually a Jeanbuster combo while everyone else is 35 if I'm lucky.

Also, defensive wins are annoying. Why if someone fights me and loses do I get 10 points if I'm lucky? Likely that guy lost more points than that.

Unknown

PVE has the grueling grind and lose a lot of time. Pvp has the issue of retaliation and lack of opponents to fight at various times. The game was made for people to play over the weekend or on vacation. Work and master's degree with the game is totally impractical. When can I'll throw my minefield and if I have some very good reward in pve or pvp I can think of to play if I have time. Pve token legendary comes only repeated.I do not even remember when it came something that could be used. Pvp with the lack of points is increasingly difficult to 1300. Also can get a repeated token, ie not worth it.

slidecage

shayne78 wrote:

:x Just on average how many people have quit playing PvP due to the point earning differential? I know that over half of my alliance does not play PvP due to point earnings!! The fact that one person can hit me for 400 points alone in a continuous row and if I retaliate just as many times as the player attacked me I only earn 22 points?!?!
That is utterly ridiculous, and this system of earning points is reason there are a large number of players who will not play PvP. Something needs to be done. I myself would think the developers would adjust this due to the fact they lose revenue from the purchase of shields, boosts, etc.. that are used during play. I honestly do not understand why so many people continue to play at such a disadvantage while wasting their money and time invested.

if one person can hit you for 400 pts be reattacking you i would contact CS.. How is that even possable it though you fought someone one and then it would cost you 10000s to find them again

Chrono_Tata

slidecage wrote:

shayne78 wrote:

:x Just on average how many people have quit playing PvP due to the point earning differential? I know that over half of my alliance does not play PvP due to point earnings!! The fact that one person can hit me for 400 points alone in a continuous row and if I retaliate just as many times as the player attacked me I only earn 22 points?!?!
That is utterly ridiculous, and this system of earning points is reason there are a large number of players who will not play PvP. Something needs to be done. I myself would think the developers would adjust this due to the fact they lose revenue from the purchase of shields, boosts, etc.. that are used during play. I honestly do not understand why so many people continue to play at such a disadvantage while wasting their money and time invested.

if one person can hit you for 400 pts be reattacking you i would contact CS.. How is that even possable it though you fought someone one and then it would cost you 10000s to find them again

From the look of it, the OP keeps retaliating against his attacker, so he keeps reappearing back in the attacker's queue. Since he clearly has way more points than the attacker, every attack is a net loss for him.

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, here are some tips for the OP:

The points earned from a PvP match is based on how much points you have currently. If you are hitting someone with exactly the same points as you, you will gain 38 points. If you are hitting someone with higher points than you, you will gain between 39-75 points, depending how much more points that person is. If you are hitting someone with less points than you, you will gain 0-37 points.

So obviously, you always want to hit someone with more points than you, since if you are hitting someone with less, they can retaliate and actually gain back more points than they lost. As a rule of thumb, never hit anyone that will get you less than 40 points.

Unknown

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Also, defensive wins are annoying. Why if someone fights me and loses do I get 10 points if I'm lucky? Likely that guy lost more points than that.

It was changed because it used to be exploitable when they reworked the points awarded for wins and losses. When you lost below a certain points threshold your losses would be less than you'd actually lose. It used to be that the fastest way to get to 1k was to get a retreat chain going. Everyone climbs to 6-700 and finds each other. Then you start retreating. If you lost 25, they'd get 25+.
You would all retreat person 1 up to say 1k. They'd get the progression reward, and then start retreating to the second player in the chain. Since you could do this with the loaner and all of your throwaway characters, it didn't cost health packs and you "A Team" was still out of defense. If one of those wanted placement, or was planning on shielding, they'd be the last in the chain and keep the generated points.

Unknown

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Also, defensive wins are annoying. Why if someone fights me and loses do I get 10 points if I'm lucky? Likely that guy lost more points than that.

On defensive wins we SHOULD get whatever amount they would have received!
The PVP point system is severely lacking, and needs to be addressed by developers.
They're losing players which causes a loss in revenue so one would assume that they'd attempt to make some changes, if only to stop the loss in revenues ,if not to satisfy the players.

Unknown

slidecage wrote:

if one person can hit you for 400 pts be reattacking you i would contact CS.. How is that even possable it though you fought someone one and then it would cost you 10000s to find them again

The player hit me 10x in less than an hour. I didnt have to find him, Every red node that popped up was him. I added up the amount of points I Could have earned in retaliation (checked the node each time) and it was total of 22 vs 400 total he received.
Its Ridulous!!
D3 customer service is a joke! I had and issue in October of 2014 it took them till February of 2015 to address it and I took a loss of 1700 HP ....but hey! I got 3 Heroic tokens!!

Dragon_Nexus

Chrono_Tata wrote:

As a rule of thumb, never hit anyone that will get you less than 40 points.

Jeez, if I did that I'd hit nothing but Hulkbuster teams or...no that would be it. Most of the time I'm getting 30-38 points in PvP.

Unknown

This has happened A LOT to me recently... I shield hop up to 9xx points and raise another shield. My score "freezes" at say 976. Next thing I know MINUTES later, I notice that my score is 930. And eventually I see the notice that I had been attacked, despite my shield going up and locking my original score MINUTES ago.

I'm sure this happens to everyone the higher up you climb, but I've only noticed it recently and it's beyond annoying.

I'm sure there's a techical explaination about if you're being attacked while you shield your score is subject to the rules of that battle... Yada yada yada give me my points back. It's just frusturating. Explaining to me how I got stabbed doesn't make it hurt any less...

Unknown

Chrono_Tata wrote:

slidecage wrote:

shayne78 wrote:

:x Just on average how many people have quit playing PvP due to the point earning differential? I know that over half of my alliance does not play PvP due to point earnings!! The fact that one person can hit me for 400 points alone in a continuous row and if I retaliate just as many times as the player attacked me I only earn 22 points?!?!
That is utterly ridiculous, and this system of earning points is reason there are a large number of players who will not play PvP. Something needs to be done. I myself would think the developers would adjust this due to the fact they lose revenue from the purchase of shields, boosts, etc.. that are used during play. I honestly do not understand why so many people continue to play at such a disadvantage while wasting their money and time invested.

if one person can hit you for 400 pts be reattacking you i would contact CS.. How is that even possable it though you fought someone one and then it would cost you 10000s to find them again

From the look of it, the OP keeps retaliating against his attacker, so he keeps reappearing back in the attacker's queue. Since he clearly has way more points than the attacker, every attack is a net loss for him.

Since no one else has mentioned it yet, here are some tips for the OP:

The points earned from a PvP match is based on how much points you have currently. If you are hitting someone with exactly the same points as you, you will gain 38 points. If you are hitting someone with higher points than you, you will gain between 39-75 points, depending how much more points that person is. If you are hitting someone with less points than you, you will gain 0-37 points.

So obviously, you always want to hit someone with more points than you, since if you are hitting someone with less, they can retaliate and actually gain back more points than they lost. As a rule of thumb, never hit anyone that will get you less than 40 points.

I only play 40 or above after my first battle node. Now in this situation I did not retaliate against the player yet they somehow managed to find me consecutively 10 times in a row in less than an hour. The only reason I know I would only have earned 22 points was because every time it showed the red node being it was the same player I decided to add the amount I would have won, along with amount of my loss by the player so that I could see the difference. Of course I was aware as everyone else that there is a large gap between loss and retaliation points earned but I was curious to the amount and was just astounded by the difference. My Alliance and been discussing it for a while now and the fact that most of them have stopped participating in PvP. So I decided to post in here to find out if there were others that may have had the same experience and made the decision to no longer participate PVP.

Turbosmooth

I agree that the points based on leaderboard position should not be used. The whole PvP system is a mess. It would make more sense that points be based on the character differential of the match. If you have an even amount of covers + level, then the match is considered even and you earn a par score. So the only way to get higher points would be to use a lesser roster against a harder team.

Points lost need to be minimized. Half the amount of loss. Players should only be able to attack another once per 12/24 hours. And there could be 15 minute to 1 hour "super shields" that reduce losses to 75% and characters take no health loss unless downed. This lets you play instead of not playing.

There are so many ideas to make PvP better. Not a fan of the current system. It's a struggle/hassle to get to 1000 with even a 290/240/240 team with shield hopping 3 times! I saw another thread where a lot of people were saying they could use their 3*'s all the way to 1000 and not have to shield. You guys must be in a secret slice or something. I could only see that working if you had a 290/350/270 or better team.

Also when the game crashes and that match counts as a loss and my characters lose health, that's the worst feeling ever.

Unknown

j12601 wrote:

Dragon_Nexus wrote:

Also, defensive wins are annoying. Why if someone fights me and loses do I get 10 points if I'm lucky? Likely that guy lost more points than that.

It was changed because it used to be exploitable when they reworked the points awarded for wins and losses. When you lost below a certain points threshold your losses would be less than you'd actually lose. It used to be that the fastest way to get to 1k was to get a retreat chain going. Everyone climbs to 6-700 and finds each other. Then you start retreating. If you lost 25, they'd get 25+.
You would all retreat person 1 up to say 1k. They'd get the progression reward, and then start retreating to the second player in the chain. Since you could do this with the loaner and all of your throwaway characters, it didn't cost health packs and you "A Team" was still out of defense. If one of those wanted placement, or was planning on shielding, they'd be the last in the chain and keep the generated points.

Simple way to solve that would be to remove the option to retreat. Its pointless, you lose life, points and any boosts,TU's, etc.. used in the end either way. It would be alternatively more advantageous to players to gain the points, rather than having the choice to just quit instead of completing the node.

Unknown

I experienced getting hit by the same person 25 times today in the Blade High Stakes PvP. I did retaliate 6 of those times, but then I had to stop (more because we were being mandatorily evacuated for flooding in my area but partially because of the absurdity of the whole thing). No I am not exaggerating the number of attacks either.

Yes, I have to agree the PvP system is broken and I hope you consider doing something about it. It sure as heck isn't fun just being repeatedly bludgeoned by the same player again and again just because they can- especially not while your dealing with a natural disaster!

I think the opponent selection process and the scoring process are the first places to start.

Unknown

MonteChristo wrote:

This has happened A LOT to me recently... I shield hop up to 9xx points and raise another shield. My score "freezes" at say 976. Next thing I know MINUTES later, I notice that my score is 930. And eventually I see the notice that I had been attacked, despite my shield going up and locking my original score MINUTES ago.

I'm sure this happens to everyone the higher up you climb, but I've only noticed it recently and it's beyond annoying.

I'm sure there's a techical explaination about if you're being attacked while you shield your score is subject to the rules of that battle... Yada yada yada give me my points back. It's just frusturating. Explaining to me how I got stabbed doesn't make it hurt any less...

I've had the same thing happen to me, as have most of my alliance. D3's response was: In what Event? Was it PVP or PVE? (Oh yes,they did ) At what time of day it occurred? What was the exact time of the occurrence? What node? How much time was left in the event? Which player defeated you? What characters were in use? Along with request for screenshots of not only amount of points earned at the time of sheild purchase and points after defeat. Screenshot of the defeat and screenshots of proof of purchase of shield.Then say that it happened possibly due to playing format, slow internet, age or problems with my phone, the attack occurred before or during purchase of shield and it just showed later because sometimes there's a delay or because I have a faulty internet connection OR I just THOUGHT I purchased a shield.

Unknown

i feel like i been there, 900 to 1000 walk, win 50+ but -53, win again and -50 again rinse repeat, even open some taco token(need a lot healthpack) winning against fistbuster isn't a fun thing(or using 3 herp-pack every single fight) and keep seeing pop up "you've been attacked by" kinda piss me off lol.

give up and shielded for 925 pts, all i saw fistbuster/deadfist/fistfury ad nauseam

Moon Roach

MonteChristo wrote:

This has happened A LOT to me recently... I shield hop up to 9xx points and raise another shield. My score "freezes" at say 976. Next thing I know MINUTES later, I notice that my score is 930. And eventually I see the notice that I had been attacked, despite my shield going up and locking my original score MINUTES ago.

I'm sure this happens to everyone the higher up you climb, but I've only noticed it recently and it's beyond annoying.

I'm sure there's a techical explaination about if you're being attacked while you shield your score is subject to the rules of that battle... Yada yada yada give me my points back. It's just frusturating. Explaining to me how I got stabbed doesn't make it hurt any less...

That's a well-known feature with a well-known workaround that's become less well-known as time passes.

Feature: Your shield purchase is in a queue, and if a battle is processed on the server before your shield purchase, you lose points even though "shielded".

Workaround: As soon as you shield, go into event rewards, check your rank, and for good measure the top ranked as well. That forces the server to prioritise your transactions, and your shield is recorded more quickly.

It's pants, it shouldn't be necessary, but it's the best way to make sure your shield is recorded as soon as possible.

Unknown

TexasTycoon wrote:

I experienced getting hit by the same person 25 times today in the Blade High Stakes PvP

i think pvp lack battle log, end up we had no idea who attack us only first 6-7 who attack first. if battle log is implemented and function like showing who attack us(player name), what event(shield sim or high stake) and time (12m ago, 5hr ago, etc) also can retaliate from there too and can be clicked any time too, not like currently that-silly-annoying-pop up.

i just read your first sentence thought

Unknown

Yeah, it's broken. Many others know it's broken. D3 apparently doesn't see it as broken and is therefore unlikely to fix it. As long as D3 has got "yes men" supporting the status quo, this is what we will continue to have with PvP in MPQ. The Line chat program alone is littered with ex-MPQ players who attempted to suggest meaningful changes to PvP, and ultimately left the game for precisely the reasons you're frustrated about.

Bearing in mind I hear you and happen to agree that it's ridiculous that despite every other PvP game out there not having these issues, MPQ is somehow unable be fixed, you only have a few options at this point:

1. Deal with it.
2. Move on, or, most importantly…
3. Find a way to use it to your advantage.

I see some suggestions in the thread, here's another example of making it work, at least for me. Save your retal nodes.

When someone hits you, taking +-60 points and giving you a retal worth (I know, I KNOW.) 1-10 points, DO NOT fight them if you know you can win. Let the node "marinate" for a bit and you can get a bunch back, if not more than you lost.

This doesn't change losing defenses for 30-60+ while earning only 1-10 for successful defenses, fluctuating point totals, the broken MMR, paying to skip fights (WT…?!), the science of actually getting a shield to, well, shield you, but it's at least something you have control over.

Aside from that? You could join the ranks of the many who quit on a seemingly daily basis.

Good luck out there.

DBC

jredd

people have been complaining about this for awhile now, but progress on the issue seems to be (s)lacking.

people have suggested several things which would remedy a lot of the issues. i think a running score (for placement) and a cumulative score (no losses, for progression) would go a long way to help pvp get some of it's usefulness back.