CHEATING A.I. (too often)

Unknown

Yea I get what you're saying I meant that it usually gets them just the right color that will allow them to use an ability you especially don't want them to, not so much giving it what it wants according to its programing. And I did mean that it sees what it will get. Examples:
Whenever I fight Thor his thunder strike gets him at least 1 match 5 green, and then it will cascade MORE green from above the board. It usually gives me only up to 2 match 3s. Even though mine is 5/3/5 those extra three extra greens shouldn't make such an enormous difference EVERY TIME, and I mean EVERY time, no exceptions.
Whenever I fight obw, she will get blue or pink on a cascade from ABOVE THE BOARD almost every time she gets a cascade.

Spencer75

Typhon13 wrote:

The previous post is right except for where he says it doesn't matter what you got from the cascade. The ai almost always gets exactly what it needs from a cascade, where its pretty random what falls for you.

Cal Sagan once said "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"

But I don't suppose you have any>

Spencer75

Typhon13 wrote:

Yea I get what you're saying I meant that it usually gets them just the right color that will allow them to use an ability you especially don't want them to, not so much giving it what it wants according to its programing. And I did mean that it sees what it will get. Examples:
Whenever I fight Thor his thunder strike gets him at least 1 match 5 green, and then it will cascade MORE green from above the board. It usually gives me only up to 2 match 3s. Even though mine is 5/3/5 those extra three extra greens shouldn't make such an enormous difference EVERY TIME, and I mean EVERY time, no exceptions.
Whenever I fight obw, she will get blue or pink on a cascade from ABOVE THE BOARD almost every time she gets a cascade.

You clearly don't

Dayv

Veracity wrote:

Spencer75 wrote:

They also don't efficiently use their powers

Oh, god, Adamantium Slash then Feral Claws. I assume it just goes through them in color order, but I wish they could make it get that right. It uses Trickery conditionally, so we know single skills can have behaviors attached at least to some extent.

Actually, I think Trickery is one of the skills that prevents you from using it if there's nothing for it to do. You *can't* cast it unless the enemy has at least one strike or protect tile out.

TheVulture

I don't believe that the AI cheats, I just wanted to share the misery of my worst ever cascade moments ago:

> My team all L85, AI team all L85 (SHIELD training)
> 2nd Move they connect-4'd environment tiles on the top row
> Cascade starts... cascade finishes - Astonishing Wolverine from 3,560 health down to 50, all 3 AI Ares powers flashing.

Kolence

Does my memory deceives me or did AI earlier use to match 5 in other shapes than just straight line? Or those were during cascades and I have just forgotten?

Anyway, I don't believe the AI cheats, but there were certainly moments when I felt like it does.

Twysta

a 2x3 match in a rectangle or flattened z shape will also get you a free turn

xxx
xxx

xxxo
oxxx

xxxoo
ooxxx

as long as tiles are touching and more than 5 match.

Unknown

The AI only makes match 5 if it's a row/column. Any other time is accidental, most likely because it's trying to form a match 4 row/column elsewhere.

Twysta

That said, there have been times where the AI will clear a column and then 6 of the same color will drop to give them a free turn. Happened to one of my friends who was just starting out too - he's given up on teh game now.

That's never happened to me.
That said, the AI acts dumb enough normally that you have a distinct advantage over it in most cases and they deserve the odd cascade or two considering how many L's they ignore.

Unknown

Twysta wrote:

That said, there have been times where the AI will clear a column and then 6 of the same color will drop to give them a free turn. Happened to one of my friends who was just starting out too - he's given up on teh game now.

That's never happened to me.
That said, the AI acts dumb enough normally that you have a distinct advantage over it in most cases and they deserve the odd cascade or two considering how many L's they ignore.

That's because AI makes more row/column matches compared to you. It 5 of the same thing dropped from a L/T/+ clear, it wouldn't actually be very useful, but it does when it's a row/column clear.

Generally speaking, the drops from above is favorable to the player. The AI strategy maximizes the number of tile clears at the expense of everything else, which is why it gets a lot of favorable drops.

This is also another reason why turning match 5 that aren't row/column into a match 4 isn't as bad as people think. Having a row/column clear gives you a better chance to take advantage of something favorable, while a L/T/+ usually do not if the M does not get automatched.

Unknown

sleep7 wrote:

I'm not trying to be a crybaby about this but it simply happens more frequently than it should.

I'm sure it's a scenario familiar to a lot of players: you are carefully and strategically collecting AP whilst denying the opponent team its AP. Eventually you are almost ready to fire off a couple super moves and then WHAM! Out of the blue yonder,the enemy AI starts getting 3-4-5-6 consecutive cascades, with critical hits and extra turns no less. And as if that's not incredulous enough, it repeats this amazing feat the following 2-3 turns! Suddenly the opponent team has amassed all the AP it needs to fire off not one or two, but ALL of its different AP coloured super moves in short succession... soundly annihilating your team before you even had a chance to use one special ability.

It's so blatantly ridiculous and implausible! Nobody likes to lose in this manner. It's the antithesis of fun. I wish the developer would tone this sort of thing down. Crybaby signing out.

I get cascading matches all the time. I think the AI does get crazy miracle cascades. The stuff of nightmares. Where you're going: "Okay, that's enough..." "Alright, stop..." "This is ridiculous" "Enough Already!" "Stop!!!". They're rare. I've had them too. It's like. "Oh wow, I didn't know players could get these".

Telicis wrote:

G. DO NOT TUNNEL VISION. If your team only works well because you need a specific color, you're going to lose a considerable amount of your matches, because that color won't always be avaliable.

This ^

Unknown

The AI never gets tired, while you will progressively do worse over time unless you've training in endurance gaming.

sigh - I am too old for this newfangled stuff - all my Endurance Gaming experience has been with an Xbox controller. And a bowl of chips and some suds.

Can't eat chips whilst using a touchscreen or it gets all gooey.

Where do I sign up for "Endurance Gaming - Touchscreen Training" ?

Unknown

Either im having an incredibly bad run or the ai has gotten better over the last couple of days . Its actually got to the point in the last two days that im actually stunned when I win. I got all the way to first in the daredevil tourney without one loss and tody I lost three matches in a row to "incredibly lucky cascades/falling from the top matches" within the first few turns. Enough to power single kill moves even. Luckily my screens already cracked I guess

Unknown

Typhon13 wrote:

Yea I get what you're saying I meant that it usually gets them just the right color that will allow them to use an ability you especially don't want them to, not so much giving it what it wants according to its programing. And I did mean that it sees what it will get. Examples:
Whenever I fight Thor his thunder strike gets him at least 1 match 5 green, and then it will cascade MORE green from above the board. It usually gives me only up to 2 match 3s. Even though mine is 5/3/5 those extra three extra greens shouldn't make such an enormous difference EVERY TIME, and I mean EVERY time, no exceptions.
Whenever I fight obw, she will get blue or pink on a cascade from ABOVE THE BOARD almost every time she gets a cascade.

I understand your frustration, but you're overexaggerating. I'll try to tackle each point separately:

Thor SHOULD get at least 1 match green if he gets off Thunder Strike (which you should be trying to prevent anyway). It's one of the most powerful board-changing moves in the game currently (definitely in the Top 5 at minimum). And on several occasions it's happened to other people too.

Those three extra greens DO make a huge difference, consider the same argument in reverse. If you matched three LESS greens than you already do, wouldn't you consider that significant?

Getting cascades from above the board is common - it's half the danger of a cascade to begin with.

It seems like you're basing this idea of "the computer must know something I don't" off of what you get vs what it gets... Which is a flawed principle. It's going to happen they get luckier than you from time to time. But to say it happens EVERY TIME, NO EXCEPTIONS? There are only two ways that can actually be true:

A. Everyone, every single player, shares the same experience you do. If not, then
B. You are playing a different version of the game than everyone else, where that is happening.

Unknown

I find that a very important part of playing in general is recognizing when a board is dangerous and then try to get rid of it as soon as you can if you can't figure out how to cascade into it. The AI is very good at figuring out how to turn a clump of same color tiles into a massive combo, and if you can't figure it out, at least make sure they can't use it either by breaking it up.

Of course, the last game I opened with a match 4 which creates a match 5 for the AI on the tiles that dropped, which dropped 7 of the same color on the same row twice, and then... well, you get the idea. Sometimes you just can't win.

Unknown

Phantron wrote:

I find that a very important part of playing in general is recognizing when a board is dangerous and then try to get rid of it as soon as you can if you can't figure out how to cascade into it. The AI is very good at figuring out how to turn a clump of same color tiles into a massive combo, and if you can't figure it out, at least make sure they can't use it either by breaking it up.

Of course, the last game I opened with a match 4 which creates a match 5 for the AI on the tiles that dropped, which dropped 7 of the same color on the same row twice, and then... well, you get the idea. Sometimes you just can't win.

This a thousand times. The computer's advantage lies in flawless analysis of the existing board (IE never missing a match that isn't a Match 5, unlike players)... If you don't examine the board carefully and choose to play for the bottom, there's a good chance you're going to get stomped in the next few matches.

Interestingly enough, I hit a bad streak earlier today during the DD tourney. OBW kept chaining purples for recons two fights in a row and I never got an ability off after wiping out her team members at the cost of one of mine. She wittled me down in three different fights today

Of course, I also went from 6 to 30 Green in one ridiculous cascade (when I just happened to run C. Storm because I was against a weird team), so it goes both ways.

Unknown

Telicis wrote:

Phantron wrote:

I find that a very important part of playing in general is recognizing when a board is dangerous and then try to get rid of it as soon as you can if you can't figure out how to cascade into it. The AI is very good at figuring out how to turn a clump of same color tiles into a massive combo, and if you can't figure it out, at least make sure they can't use it either by breaking it up.

Of course, the last game I opened with a match 4 which creates a match 5 for the AI on the tiles that dropped, which dropped 7 of the same color on the same row twice, and then... well, you get the idea. Sometimes you just can't win.

This a thousand times. The computer's advantage lies in flawless analysis of the existing board (IE never missing a match that isn't a Match 5, unlike players)... If you don't examine the board carefully and choose to play for the bottom, there's a good chance you're going to get stomped in the next few matches.

Interestingly enough, I hit a bad streak earlier today during the DD tourney. OBW kept chaining purples for recons two fights in a row and I never got an ability off after wiping out her team members at the cost of one of mine. She wittled me down in three different fights today

Of course, I also went from 6 to 30 Green in one ridiculous cascade (when I just happened to run C. Storm because I was against a weird team), so it goes both ways.

The AI's analysis of the board is hardly flawless. It hardly ever Matches L shaped 5 in a row's and instead goes for 4 in a row's when the other match creates criticals. The AI could be a lot more vicious and really not make mistakes, and everyone here would hate playing against it. We play against an average to weak AI, that sticks to rules so pattern emerges. It appears to cheat but probably doesn't.

If it did, it would be like a Casino Slot machine, there are percentages associated with wins and losses, and probability variables that determine win and losses. It appears to be random but it's really a small percentage bias towards the house, i.e. the AI. If it's small enough it would be hard to pick up. In this case, cascades happen to both sides, and maybe you aren't playing to block the AI well enough.

Imagine a perfect Spiderman AI, who knows exactly when to web you to frustrate your attacks or simply an AI that truly plays to deny you of your AP, with disregard to his own color pool. I'm happy with our **** AI

Unknown

klingsor wrote:

The AI's analysis of the board is hardly flawless. It hardly ever Matches L shaped 5 in a row's and instead goes for 4 in a row's when the other match creates criticals. The AI could be a lot more vicious and really not make mistakes, and everyone here would hate playing against it. We play against an average to weak AI, that sticks to rules so pattern emerges. It appears to cheat but probably doesn't.

If it did, it would be like a Casino Slot machine, there are percentages associated with wins and losses, and probability variables that determine win and losses. It appears to be random but it's really a small percentage bias towards the house, i.e. the AI. If it's small enough it would be hard to pick up. In this case, cascades happen to both sides, and maybe you aren't playing to block the AI well enough.

Imagine a perfect Spiderman AI, who knows exactly when to web you to frustrate your attacks or simply an AI that truly plays to deny you of your AP, with disregard to his own color pool. I'm happy with our **** AI

I meant flawless in the sense that it doesn't miss obvious Match 3s like a player can, sorry. Being impatient, rushing, getting frustrated, and getting tired are all weaknesses it doesn't have - that was the point I was trying to make.

And yes, this is definitely the case. If you want to see a dangerous AI try the original Puzzle Quest - dear god.

Actually, because of the difference in that game (Match 4s give you an extra turn too!), I wonder if they just swapped most of the AI play over to MPQ. It would explain some of its weaknesses, although I feel like they toned it down in comparison.

Unknown

I think I have had worse cascades at times than I ever saw the computer have. I remember wiping out an 85 Ares at half hitpoints, an 85 Wolverine and reducing the 85 Thor in the same team to 200 hitpoints off one cascade.

Spencer75

Jester Day wrote:

I think I have had worse cascades at times than I ever saw the computer have. I remember wiping out an 85 Ares at half hitpoints, an 85 Wolverine and reducing the 85 Thor in the same team to 200 hitpoints off one cascade.

Ditto, I wiped out an OBW yesterday on my first move, an innocuous match 3 that sent the board crashing into madness.

Most players only seem to remember when this happens to them, not when they do it.