CHEATING A.I. (too often)

Unknown

I'm not trying to be a crybaby about this but it simply happens more frequently than it should.

I'm sure it's a scenario familiar to a lot of players: you are carefully and strategically collecting AP whilst denying the opponent team its AP. Eventually you are almost ready to fire off a couple super moves and then WHAM! Out of the blue yonder,the enemy AI starts getting 3-4-5-6 consecutive cascades, with critical hits and extra turns no less. And as if that's not incredulous enough, it repeats this amazing feat the following 2-3 turns! Suddenly the opponent team has amassed all the AP it needs to fire off not one or two, but ALL of its different AP coloured super moves in short succession... soundly annihilating your team before you even had a chance to use one special ability.

It's so blatantly ridiculous and implausible! Nobody likes to lose in this manner. It's the antithesis of fun. I wish the developer would tone this sort of thing down. Crybaby signing out.

Unknown

NY Times - Why People Remember Negative Events More Than Positive Ones

Unknown

I really do wonder if you know how ridiculous you sound.

Kelbris

You can't see cascades? It's easy to see a 3 or 4 chain even before considering drop down possibility.

People playing PQ1 claimed this too. It was dismissed there as well.

Unknown

I've been thinking about this issue some more and here's some of things that favor AI.

1. They never miss a match 4.

2. Turning a non row match 5 into a match 4 is about 50/50 compared to match 4. If you assume the M is formed smack in the center of the screen, there's a 60% chance it'll immediately be matched with something (there are 6 ways to put 2 of the same thing on something in the middle of the screen). But, this means 40% of the time it is likely worse than a match 4 because then you got to either immediately move something to match 2 tiles (for a total of 7 tiles, versus 8 tiles in a match 4), or you got to leave it there and it's a very dangerous to leave a M alone. Rarely you might be able to flip the M into another match 4 elsewhere but these situations are rare. The 60% chance figure goes way down if you're near the sides and especially on a corner. Generally speaking a non row/column match 5 in the middle of the screen is better than a match 4 column/row, but not if it's near the corner, so this isn't as big a weakness as people think.

3. There are often a lot of moves that will immediately get turned into a match 4/5 for the opponent at the bottom. The AI does not particularly care about a match whether it's at the bottom or the top or what colors are involved, so its chance of triggering such a trap is 1/X where X is the number of moves available. On the other hand, a player might be more inclined to make that match especially if it's got 3 red there. Since the AI doesn't prioritize color at all, it is not susceptible to any 'trap' type of moves beyond its normal chance of randomly picking that one.

mischiefmaker

Phantron wrote:

2. Turning a non row match 5 into a match 4 is about 50/50 compared to match 4. If you assume the M is formed smack in the center of the screen, there's a 60% chance it'll immediately be matched with something (there are 6 ways to put 2 of the same thing on something in the middle of the screen). But, this means 40% of the time it is likely worse than a match 4 because then you got to either immediately move something to match 2 tiles (for a total of 7 tiles, versus 8 tiles in a match 4), or you got to leave it there and it's a very dangerous to leave a M alone. Rarely you might be able to flip the M into another match 4 elsewhere but these situations are rare. The 60% chance figure goes way down if you're near the sides and especially on a corner. Generally speaking a non row/column match 5 in the middle of the screen is better than a match 4 column/row, but not if it's near the corner, so this isn't as big a weakness as people think.

I don't understand how you calculated the 60% number. I get that there are 6 ways to create an immediate match, but why does that imply 60%? Are there only 4 other possibilities? That doesn't sound right, and it doesn't jive with experience, either (you're saying that over half the time, when I make a T or L shape in the middle of the board, it should immediately cascade).

Unknown

You need 2 tiles to be the same color (1/7 chance) on:

1. 2 left
2. 2 right
3. 2 above
4. 2 below
5. 1 left 1 right
6. 1 above 1 below

The chance none of those 6 possibilities turns into an automatch is (6/7)^6 = 39.6%, so 60% of the time it will immediately match something.

Now let's assume the M is instead at the middle of the bottom row, you now only have 4 immediate matches: 2 left, 2 right, left + right, and top. The chance of that making a match is (6/7)^4 = 54%, or 46% of the time it will immediately match.

Obviously this varies depending on what the actual board state is, but 50% chance of a M immediately matched doesn't sound outrageous compared to my experience (it does get matched immediately often enough). Obviously the time where M is matched immediately it's always a good move (since you're free to do something else), but if you've to make a match 3 to get rid of the M, it's not necessarily a good move without boosted characters (the crit damage is relatively insignificant). With a boosted character, you could hit 1K with the M and that'd actually be a decent move. If you're forced to do a match 3 to get rid of the M, you get a total of 7 APs (match 5 + 2 from matching the M), versus 8 AP for a standard match 4. You get more damage done this way, but if the person making the M match isn't a boosted character, you're looking at say 150 to 600, which is decent boost but not that amazing when you consider a single red AP is worth about 250 damage.

Of course, the real problem is what if you can't get rid of the M. Then you're playing with a time bomb here. Now, I wouldn't say do what the AI does and do a match 4 instead, but you got to be really, really sure that M can't be flipped to a match 4 elsewhere after your move when you can't get rid of it.

Spencer75

Celerity wrote:

NY Times - Why People Remember Negative Events More Than Positive Ones

+1

The AI also doesn't do match 5's in an L or T, instead turning them into a match 4

They also can't strategically target your team members.

They also don't efficiently use their powers, how many times have you seen Rags hammer away a straight line match 5 at the beginning of a turn (use the power after you do the match 5, it's still your turn silly AI)

But yeah it's cheating. OP is the kids who used to throw his game controllers against the wall, claiming the computer was cheating. I remember those kids, I hated those kids.

Unknown

I think people also severely underestimate the effect of fatigue. The AI never gets tired, while you will progressively do worse over time unless you've training in endurance gaming.

Unknown

Spencer75 wrote:

They also don't efficiently use their powers

Oh, god, Adamantium Slash then Feral Claws. I assume it just goes through them in color order, but I wish they could make it get that right. It uses Trickery conditionally, so we know single skills can have behaviors attached at least to some extent.

This has been going on for years with regard to PQ alone. I don't think anyone determined to believe the board never randomly explodes in a crit shower for them is going to be convinced.

Unknown

Not this tiny kitty again! Can we have some duplicate thread filtering?

Twysta

IceIX is on his weekend sabbatical.
You'll just have to wait.

Unknown

By the time several matches have been made, they barely do any damage anyway since each consecutive match does less damage (first match 100%, 2nd match 75%, not sure about following matches). If you have someone that can produce defense tiles, these quickly get reduced to -1 damage only. The AP gain when the enemy makes a cascade can still be as problem though.

Unknown

Its a tough one. My theory is that they're just a little bit too good at playing the odds of where a cascade will happen. On the flipside as others have mentioned we have advantages the ai doesn't: first turn , choosing who to attack, able to chose when to use abilities etc. Its the only real way the ai has to win. Unless im unlucky with the board I never lose unless the ai gets cascades. Its massivly annoying but the ai has to put up a fight somehow.

Unknown

It's because they have perfect knowledge of the board, the only exception being match 5s not in a row. They know exactly what to match to get a cascade instantly, where you would have to take a minute to analyze the board. They do get insane cascades constantly, but I'm not sure if they can see a little above the board. All I know is they constantly get a match already made fall in just the color they need, just the color you were trying to stop them from getting. We do have advantages they don't, but I've seen cascades that match 20 of the same color in some convoluted pattern. These cascades are game changers more than going first is.

Unknown

It also looks like they are cheating when just as a cascade finishes and before the ap registers they are using another ability. So it might say 7 green ap but they use a 12 green ap ability and i call cheater, well i did at first till i realised what was happening.

Unknown

bughunt wrote:

By the time several matches have been made, they barely do any damage anyway since each consecutive match does less damage (first match 100%, 2nd match 75%, not sure about following matches). If you have someone that can produce defense tiles, these quickly get reduced to -1 damage only. The AP gain when the enemy makes a cascade can still be as problem though.

That doesn't do a lot to dampen several consecutive crits, though, which can happen at random despite the AI's refusal to match 5 if it can help it, and I think is what really sets people off. I've had OBW killed from over 1,000 HP by level 35 Yelena in "one" turn, including extras. Statistically that was going to happen sooner or later with how often I visit her for Prologue healing, but it still leaves you gaping in disbelief.

Unknown

It's not surprising how often this comes up, PARTICULARLY in Match 3 games. Some great points have been made in this thread, just going to throw in my 2 cents:

The computer is not compensated for you getting the first turn or anything. It doesn't need it, because it has one giant advantage you do not:

It's a computer. It does not tire, it does not mistakes, it does not get frustrated. It runs off an algorithm, and algorithm that will never fail because it can't be derailed from it.

That's also the biggest strength we have as players - we have the ability to adapt, it does not. It's really late/early so I don't want to make a super long post, especially since there's a bunch of little tricks I don't recall right now (I know research has been done on which ability AI is more likely to use, how, yadda yadda)... But here's some general things to keep in mind to see a drastic difference in your sense of luck and overall performance.

A. Be mindful of your opponent. Abilties make and break this game, not just matches. Not saying to count cards (IE colors) in matches, but be mindful of what you're up against. There's no time limit, so if for example you're up against Storm, DON'T match near a set of Green unless there's no other option.
B. Remember, making matches on the bottom is ALWAYS riskier than the top, because more tiles move. Keep this in mind at all times.
C. Minimize your risk, or maximize it. Play the board mindfully, or go all out and hope for paydirt with a cascade. Trying to mix the two will rarely, RARELY work out for you, statistical anomalies are anomalies for a reason.
D. The computer will never Match 5 on purpose.
E. More importantly, IT ALMOST ALWAYS MATCHES 4. This single tactic makes the computer very, very easy to abuse if you need a specific color (or they only have a few abilities), if you're mindful of what other colors they'll get from it.
F. Getting a match isn't a victory or a success, it's a means to an end.
G. DO NOT TUNNEL VISION. If your team only works well because you need a specific color, you're going to lose a considerable amount of your matches, because that color won't always be avaliable.
H. Most importantly? Remember that if you're not taking advantage of these, you're only hurting yourself: The AI does what it does whether you try or not.

If you're really in doubt, I challenge you to try this: Keep a tally of every single match you play this week, and play semi regularly. Any time you get a cascade, write it down - in a perfect world, write down how big it was too. Not if it got you what you needed (because that's irrelevant), just how many matches it generated you. Do the same for the computer. Check your tally at the end of the week... See what you come up with.

Yours truly,

Someone who has punched more computer screens than I care to admit in biased anger (god bless military bodyglove phone cases)

Unknown

The previous post is right except for where he says it doesn't matter what you got from the cascade. The ai almost always gets exactly what it needs from a cascade, where its pretty random what falls for you.

Unknown

I hate most when the AI turns into a taco salesman, deceives me into walking into its establishment with my guard down, and then proceeds to cut off my arm to put into its new flavor of ice cream. I HATE HATE HATE THE AI!!!

Unknown

Typhon13 wrote:

The previous post is right except for where he says it doesn't matter what you got from the cascade. The ai almost always gets exactly what it needs from a cascade, where its pretty random what falls for you.

I get what you're saying, but there's a dramatic issue here with that concept:

What YOU think the AI needs, and what the AI thinks it needs are not only most likely different, they're based off ENTIRELY different ways of playing. You can't judge it's playing style properly (unless you somehow know its priorities for every ability for every character, for each variation of covers).

I suggest not recording what you or the AI get from the cascade because A. that's going to be super hard to keep track of and B. if we're talking statistics, it doesn't - all colors are equal in the world of numbers.

Now, yes, you can make the argument "but what if the computer gets cascades that give it the colors it needs more than you do", but again, your opinion and the AI's algorithms probably disagree strongly.

And more importantly... If you're entertaining that possibility, the whole discussion is moot. It's factually more difficult (and trouble) for a programmer to make a system that cheats in favor of a computer getting the right colors from cascading, than it is just having one see what it's going to get before it matches.