So, about that token at 1300...

Unknown

I think it unfair to judge base on 1 bracket or slice. The one I am in 1300 is a peanut score. But I do prefer to know what I am getting versus a random cover with the token.

Moon Roach

donietsche wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

I'm in slice 2 and my bracket leader has over 1500 points while number 2 has 1400. Numbers 3-6 are within hopping distance of 1300.
...maybe you just picked a dry slice?

all the players with those scores in s2 belong to the same alliance, which will usually score that high no matter what (even if IW would have been awarded at 1.3).

everyone else in s2 is way below 1.3. Being a regular in s2, I can confirm the feeling of simonesz. The ongoing pve is a factor to be considered too, in any case. Lot of folks are focusing on it. For placement or to get the legendary token...

Isn't that an example of how trickle-down economics doesn't actually work? You'd expect a bunch of juicy 70 point targets from the guys on 1300 or above, but of course they're shielded, so all you get are the same 5 35 point targets in your queue. The 1% collude, dropping shields and being "Line"d up as targets before shielding again; insider trading at its purest.

All IMHO, of course, and that humble opinion "informed" solely by reading the forum.

marx_2299

These last two events have been brutal. I can normally reach 1300 without outside communication if I wanted to in the past. But these last two events sucked. BTW, I had a both feature and boosted characters maxed out. One of my fellow commanders was doing his last hop for 1300 and fought two matches and lost over 250 points. That's ****. I think reaching 1300 is harder now and people are like **** it. I agree. My last two draws were Ant-man and Xforce wolvie (mine is maxed). Not worth it if this continues to be a brutal climb to 1300.

GurlBYE

Blahahah wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Slowing the 4* transition isn't a bad thing, you know.

Pretty sure you're the first person who's said that.

I don't mean it in the way that it should be slowed, per se.
However they did announce some changes to the characters, buffs and the like.

Slowing the transition might be good just so the sample size is smaller when the changes come through.
Easier to control the output.

Which is exactly what you don't want in an experiment?

I'm very very confused here.

Stax the Foyer

Moon Roach wrote:

Isn't that an example of how trickle-down economics doesn't actually work? You'd expect a bunch of juicy 70 point targets from the guys on 1300 or above, but of course they're shielded, so all you get are the same 5 35 point targets in your queue. The 1% collude, dropping shields and being "Line"d up as targets before shielding again; insider trading at its purest.

All IMHO, of course, and that humble opinion "informed" solely by reading the forum.

You're not wrong, but I think there's a disconnect between what we say when we talk about points trickling down. The key is that points aren't pushed down, they're pulled down.

The more people active at any given time, the more people hitting shields, the more points generated. Points cascade downward in steps, and get grow as they do so, like a snowball running downhill.

To get that "trickle-down" effect, you need players with high point totals, but you also need active players at various point totals along the way. A valuable top progression prize is a big part of that formula, because it incentivizes play in that point band.

Der_Lex

Changing the 1300 reward to a token has been a change that I haven't been too happy with since it was announced. Previously, a player could judge whether the climb to 1300 was worth the time and shields. Right now, it's a big gamble, and I run the risk of wasting 225+ HP on a cover I don't need, AKA 1000 ISO (happened to me with all three the legendary's that I got between seasons). That's a bad deal.

With set covers at 1300, I know it might take some time until a cover comes around that you need, but that's fine by me, I'm not the kind of player who wants to score as high as possible all the time. I'd rather be able to hit 1300 once every 3 or 5 pvp's and be 100% certain of getting a reward that's worth it, instead of taking a gamble more often.

MojoWild

If I need the 1000 progression cover, I might consider going for the token, but if I don't need it, I'm less inclined. Why would I want to spend all that HP and effort to possibly end up with two covers I don't need?

Blahahah

GurlBYE wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Blahahah wrote:

Slowing the 4* transition isn't a bad thing, you know.

Pretty sure you're the first person who's said that.

I don't mean it in the way that it should be slowed, per se.
However they did announce some changes to the characters, buffs and the like.

Slowing the transition might be good just so the sample size is smaller when the changes come through.
Easier to control the output.

Which is exactly what you don't want in an experiment?

I'm very very confused here.

In the case that you don't know exactly what will happen, its best to keep the amount of change to a minimum.

If 1,000 people have Invisible Woman and you buff her to an unforseen extreme, then the entire game shifts wildly.
If only 100 people have it, the shift is still obvious but is much easier to remedy and has less impact on the game as a whole.

Born2DieNPvP

My question is out of all the possible drops in legendary tokens why are the great majority seemingly dropping XF and Antman covers? It's almost all I see reported. The 2 I opened also had those results. Not wasting hp on shields to 1300 for my 40th XF green. Not with being able to get the tokens through other means not requiring hp.

Moon Roach

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Moon Roach wrote:

Isn't that an example of how trickle-down economics doesn't actually work? You'd expect a bunch of juicy 70 point targets from the guys on 1300 or above, but of course they're shielded, so all you get are the same 5 35 point targets in your queue. The 1% collude, dropping shields and being "Line"d up as targets before shielding again; insider trading at its purest.

All IMHO, of course, and that humble opinion "informed" solely by reading the forum.

You're not wrong, but I think there's a disconnect between what we say when we talk about points trickling down. The key is that points aren't pushed down, they're pulled down.

The more people active at any given time, the more people hitting shields, the more points generated. Points cascade downward in steps, and get grow as they do so, like a snowball running downhill.

To get that "trickle-down" effect, you need players with high point totals, but you also need active players at various point totals along the way. A valuable top progression prize is a big part of that formula, because it incentivizes play in that point band.

I agree with your point that it's a pull down economy.

The problem with that is that if you're not part of The Cabal you have to be very lucky with your timing to queue up someone who is already at that high a level, because of the shield-hopping necessary to retain a decent score.

Whenever I'm pushing for 1000 I'm almost always having to choose from opponents worth fewer than 40 points. That increases the number of battles to be fought, in turn increasing the time it takes, in turn increasing the risk of a nett loss. It's also a cost in HP for shields and ISO for skips, which is a loss to my personal economy. From outside 1300 looks impossible.

Sometimes I think the nodes at that level are like the taco vault; full of Moonstones and Bullseyes, with only the very occasional 4* to tempt you.

fmftint

It will never happen but, they should flip 1000 and 1300. People don't want question marks.

lukewin

fmftint wrote:

It will never happen but, they should flip 1000 and 1300. People don't want question marks.

I hope this never happens, because the question marks will be the obtainable one.

XandorXerxes

Slice 4 just ended - in my bracket #10 had 1439 points. See a few different clans up there (Django and X-Men mostly).

I think the switch between 1000 and 1300 is more logical from a rewards standpoint, which is exactly why it won't happen. The people who can barely hit 1K could use most any 4* I imagine, so getting the token is great for them (especially since it gives them the lucky or unlucky ability to get lots of covers for 1 person in succession). Those of you who have lots of 4*s don't need the token (unless you're aiming for SS), so the current system slows down the 4* and 5* progression via demotivation. The devs seem to want to keep the 4*s and 5*s as rare as they can (unless you fork over lots of $$), so this fits into that philosophy.

Quebbster

Moon Roach wrote:

donietsche wrote:

Quebbster wrote:

I'm in slice 2 and my bracket leader has over 1500 points while number 2 has 1400. Numbers 3-6 are within hopping distance of 1300.
...maybe you just picked a dry slice?

all the players with those scores in s2 belong to the same alliance, which will usually score that high no matter what (even if IW would have been awarded at 1.3).

everyone else in s2 is way below 1.3. Being a regular in s2, I can confirm the feeling of simonesz. The ongoing pve is a factor to be considered too, in any case. Lot of folks are focusing on it. For placement or to get the legendary token...

Isn't that an example of how trickle-down economics doesn't actually work? You'd expect a bunch of juicy 70 point targets from the guys on 1300 or above, but of course they're shielded, so all you get are the same 5 35 point targets in your queue. The 1% collude, dropping shields and being "Line"d up as targets before shielding again; insider trading at its purest.

All IMHO, of course, and that humble opinion "informed" solely by reading the forum.

Well... I kept an eye on the leaderboard. When one of the leaders unshielded I queued him up. I also assumed this meant others would queue him up as well, so there would be other high point targets available later on. Wasn't wrong on that front.
(Still didn't make it to 1300 though).
But obviously the more high point targets the better.

Unknown

*insert here line usage advice*

Now seriously, it's almost part of the game to have a better communication, if not on pvp-only rooms, at least with your alliance, and often you can use the alliance chat alone to get information for pvp.

Unknown

I think part of the problem is likely that it was a Black Panther event being played simultaneously as a 4* pve. I played this event in s4 in small chunks as Black Panther has a way of eating health packs. It just takes one Rage to take a fairly big bite out of most 3*. Some people were saving the health packs for their pve grind, where they could also earn a token.

For comparison, I finished in #98 with 1029. I had several alliance mates miss top 100 with 1k.

Malcrof

Scooters76 wrote:

I think part of the problem is likely that it was a Black Panther event being played simultaneously as a 4* pve.

^ This. This happens whenever a new release coincides with the season. My bracket in the BP PVP had 0 people over 1300, and some had rosters more than capable of it. I think Iceman is a character that everyone wants, and is willing to spend the time getting.

simonsez

aesthetocyst wrote:

I assume that since the Legendary Token has the shot at the 5*, it is by definition the highest reward in the game ...

I agree I am not motivated right now to go to 1300

See, this is exactly the point. If people aren't motivated to go for it, it's not being perceived as the highest reward in the game.

Xenoberyll

I saw a lot of point hungry people out hunting all the time. Did three hops at 1100-1200 and was hit by 2 or more people from various alliances every time i finished my 2nd fight so I decided it's not worth the effort/hp.
Also the Ice Man PVE takes away pvp playtime for many, so it might get better again next time.

SnowcaTT

Hit 1300 for perhaps the only time of the season? I ended up shielding at weird times and had a good push past 1K, so went for it.

It was hotter than I ever remember, hit 1300 in first battle of hop, hit in 2nd battle and shielded at 1297...at which point I was hit at least 8 more times. Nine (+?) attacks in a very fast two-hop. That 1297? I think it got me 12th, wasn't T10....so 1300 was not uncommon in that slice.