What needs to be improved in the 4* transition

Colognoisseur

Tl:dr: 4* transition is here and 4* covers and iso need to be more available through additions to current PvP and PvE structures.

The 4* transition is well underway. If you need any more signal of that; notice that you are now allowed to share 3* covers on Facebook. (EDIT: This has turned out to be a bug and not a shift in game philosophy). The game is shifting as 3* becomes what 2* used to be and 4* become what 3* used to be. This is clearly something which is evolving but at this point it is clear to me that there are some things which need to be addressed pretty soon.

4* covers have to become more readily achievable by playing the game. The addition of the 1300 progression in PvP has been a great step forward but there needs to be more. Every PvE needs to have a 4* progression award. There needs to be a token which has increased odds for drawing a 4*. One place this could be done is to turn the current lightning round tokens into something with an increased draw rate for 4*. Those competing at the top of the lightning rounds are likely many who need the 4* cover. This would keep 4* competition for those who have the best rosters and are transitioning from 3* to 4*. PvP should go from t1 awarding one 4* cover to t1 awarding three 4* covers and t5 awarding two 4* cover and t10 one 4* cover. There also needs to be something like DDQ for 4* added to allow for those who already have a few covers the chance to add more.

Iso flow has to increase. This is clear because while I might not be the very best at generating iso in-game I am pretty close. With the release of 4* Deadpool I ran out of iso and with the next 4* release coming I have made a decision to get the first covers but after that it will grow slowly. There is not enough iso in the game currently to allow for bringing up 4* releases if they are going to be released every two weeks. There is a bit of a catch-22 here in that the devs can’t just up the iso flow across the board because it will skew the early and mid-game player’s development time. The way I think the iso flow can be increased is to target the increase where those most in need of it are currently playing; the top of PvP standings. First place should be 10,000iso. Top 5 should be 7,500 iso. Top 10 should be 5,000 iso. If you add in my suggestion to add 4* covers and you are able to sell off dupes there is a large increase right there. I also would again turn to thelightning rounds to help too. There are two suggestions here. One lightning rounds are always running 24/7 with the current reward structure. Or alternatively they could remain at 48hour but adjust the progression awards from 25-50-100-250-500 and add more levels to this structure 25-50-100-200-300-400-500. The rewards for 25-50-100 should stay the same. 200 should be the same as the current 250. The last three should be the extra. 300 should be 500 iso, 400 should be a heroic token, 500 should be 1000 iso. This is the same point as before; those competing above 300 are those with developed rosters in need of the extra iso. In PvE the suggestion there is what has always been there- there is no way that we should be getting 20iso ever for any node. It needs to be upped to 100iso. The amount of grinding necessary past receiving the four node awards for 20 iso is bad. Also the constant critical boost node award needs to go in favor of another standard token or another iso award. I would rather have another 20 iso than a crit boost.

You will notice I have not mentioned HP because that is where the devs need to make their money. By purchasing roster slots and the last couple of covers once the 4* transitioners get close that will keep revenue flowing as the chase for 4* covers increases.

I think the game is as healthy as it has ever been but I am hoping that the devs are thinking about how to make this 4* transition a little more achievable than it currently is.

Maybe that could be the theme of the August video.

Malcrof

Move the 3* PVP progression to the 650 mark, put the first 4* at 800 (so people can easily get 1) and keep 1k and 1300 for more, and add in a 1500 and 2k with iso/hp/tokens along the way.

I am seeing more and more 1500+ scores in PVP, re-working the rewards, like they did in the shield sim, would encourage participation, and sell more HP for shields.

That would be a HUGE step.. also adding 1 to season progression.

Iso is a huge problem.. i need millions..

GurlBYE

While I'm not there, I agree but I think the whole structure should be re-looked at, with consideration for how many characters are in each 'tier' along side the issues mentioned above.

There are more 4 stars then 1 & 2. there are more 3 stars then 1 2 and 4 combined.

The 3 star transition for a new player is nightmarish compared to at launch when there were 7.

DDQ doesn't improve the transition if players don't have all 40 roster-ed to begin with.

Iso, will always be an issue if they keep releasing characters.
I feel it may be time to choose whether they want iso scarce or HP scarce.
Iso, covers and HP all scarce at once creates its own interesting issues.

Malcrof

GurlBYE wrote:

While I'm not there, I agree but I think the whole structure should be re-looked at, with consideration for how many characters are in each 'tier' along side the issues mentioned above.

There are more 4 stars then 1 & 2. there are more 3 stars then 1 2 and 4 combined.

The 3 star transition for a new player is nightmarish compared to at launch when there were 7.

DDQ doesn't improve the transition if players don't have all 40 roster-ed to begin with.

We need to keep in mind people new to the game, they need ready access to 1* and 2*'s and iso to build them quickly.. so we cannot remove them completely.

What we do need is another tier of tokens. Newer players can choose "easy" in story modes like EoTS etc.., others can choose Normal. Easy mode rewards would be as they are now, and less personal scaling, Normal would be an enhanced reward structure (heroic tokens instead of silvers, 4* progression, etc..) with the scaling we have now. For those deep into 4* land, maybe even add a "Hard" mode for even bigger rewards (more event tokens, multiple 4* progressions, much higher scaling).

GurlBYE

Malcrof wrote:

GurlBYE wrote:

While I'm not there, I agree but I think the whole structure should be re-looked at, with consideration for how many characters are in each 'tier' along side the issues mentioned above.

There are more 4 stars then 1 & 2. there are more 3 stars then 1 2 and 4 combined.

The 3 star transition for a new player is nightmarish compared to at launch when there were 7.

DDQ doesn't improve the transition if players don't have all 40 roster-ed to begin with.

We need to keep in mind people new to the game, they need ready access to 1* and 2*'s and iso to build them quickly.. so we cannot remove them completely.

What we do need is another tier of tokens. Newer players can choose "easy" in story modes like EoTS etc.., others can choose Normal. Easy mode rewards would be as they are now, and less personal scaling, Normal would be an enhanced reward structure (heroic tokens instead of silvers, 4* progression, etc..) with the scaling we have now. For those deep into 4* land, maybe even add a "Hard" mode for even bigger rewards (more event tokens, multiple 4* progressions, much higher scaling).

There is no way a person has a hard time with 1 stars just from standards alone.

Standards have like a 90% chance of a 1 star if I'm not mistaken.
There are 9 of them at the moment IIRC.

The hardest part of 2 stars is that heroics for a person as a 1 star aren't easy enough to come by, otherwise that part of the transition isn't too horrible, (the placements for them are a bit higher then they need to be but its fair.)

I can agree on needing new

Standard- as is, a bit less common then now though. & up
Heroic- As is & Up
???- & up

nwman

ISO first please, then more 4*'s.

You don't need lots of 4*'s without iso.


I'm hurting for ISO so bad, but I won't pay for that, I've spent enough on HP, and I'll grind out ISO if I must.

Lots of good points by OP and some since.

Pylgrim

One way of increasing the iso and 4* covers flow for the players who need them only (i.e. those transitioning from 3*) would be making a "hardcore" version of DDQ. Basically a DDQ but with an essential 4* in the first node and added difficulty fixed across the board so a player with a 2* roster wouldn't be able to win it.

Stax the Foyer

Agreed with all of those points, Colog. Giving out more ISO at the top end is something that needs to happen.

GurlBYE wrote:

DDQ doesn't improve the transition if players don't have all 40 roster-ed to begin with.

Given the number of 4* releases since DDQ was released, it might make sense to remove the requirement that you complete the Dat Required Character node before you complete the Big Enchilada. It's a small change, but would really help people jumpstart their transition (and would probably sell a whole mess of roster slots).

GurlBYE

Pylgrim wrote:

One way of increasing the iso and 4* covers flow for the players who need them only (i.e. those transitioning from 3*) would be making a "hardcore" version of DDQ. Basically a DDQ but with an essential 4* in the first node and added difficulty fixed across the board so a player with a 2* roster wouldn't be able to win it.

essentials don't aid in progression.

That only works when there are very few to begin with. with 15 known ( 1 'unknown') 4 stars now. and some having only been 1000 and 1300 progression and number 1 & 2 rewards since about january that won't alleviate the issue. thats a quick fix for vested players, who already have the option of tossing money at the covers or hitting 1000 and 1300 progression.

When thinking of these fixes, think of them for a 3 star player that has 10 or so fully covered and leveled 3 stars with the rest rostered, instead of a player with 5 covers of all the 4 stars.

thats not aiding transitioning thats aiding in finishing the 4 star tier.

DFiPL

GurlBYE wrote:

DDQ doesn't improve the transition if players don't have all 40 roster-ed to begin with.

Nicht wahr.

I don't have all 40 rostered. As noted elsewhere, I refuse to roster Iron Man (3) and don't really have the patience for Hood, but I have everybody else. Guess how I got probably half of the 3* I have?

Yeah, that's right. DDQ tokens while getting covers for the 3* I DID have. It can be a feedback loop. You go in with a 3* you want to improve, get tokens for other 3*, roster them, and as you chase THEIR covers, you gain others...etc. It's MOST effective, absolutely, if you have everybody so you can clear all 5 nodes every day. But even if you only have a small handful, that token you can get with 2* can open up your 3* roster.

It's not gonna open up your 4* roster if you're in the 3->4 transition, but DDQ's beneficial effects don't require that you bring most of the 3* roster to the table. Just that you have a few to prime the pump.

Unknown

I think the best way to improve 4 cover availability is to offer more tokens as rewards. Sure the chances are small for 4*'s, but the more chances means more 4's in the game. As long as 4*'s are the top dogs, they shouldn't be extremely easy to get, especially in a way where you can almost guarantee the color of the cover.

Vhailorx

If only someone had opened up this topic of discussion weeks ago. . .
viewtopic.php?style=1&f=7&t=31601

/humble brag

Colog is right to point out that iso is a critical need in 4* space. And there have been several useful suggestions for increasing the pace of transition.

It may also be worth re-evaluating direct but prices. Is it really reasonable to charge almost $20(us) per cover for the main tier of play?

And as I said in my earlier thread, the 3* tier is too big for an intermediate tier of play. The weaker 3*s should be treated like bagman: they can stay in the game, but they shouldn't be featured or in token rewards. Having 40 3*s in the games makes it way, way too long to build a 3* roster as step 1 to building a 4* roster.

GrumpySmurf1002

First place should be 10,000iso. Top 5 should be 7,500 iso. Top 10 should be 5,000 iso.

This is the only place I'd argue, and only because of the nature of the bracket system. With the 'noob' brackets and such, using the reward structure to increase flow can still skew the early level development phase.

I think the better way to increase it is through progression. There should be ISO rewards at 1100/1200. 1500 and 2000 maybe. Something in that range. An extra 10.5k per week for someone that averages 1200+ per PvP would be a nice boost.

I like LRs as a potential source as well, but something needs to be done with their scheduling. To be selfish for a second, with the nature of work and family, it's not really practical for me to play more than 1-2 per week, 3 if I'm lucky. I'd like to see them daily, at sporadic hours to accommodate the different time zones. There's 24 of them current, 168 hours in a week. 168/24 = 7. Run them every 7 hours.

Sunday 12am EST, 7am, 2pm, 9pm, Monday 4am, 11am, 6pm....etc would be a perfectly reasonable schedule. It would also make another thing, along with DDQ, that is available daily to participate in, and doesn't require a huge time suck to be competitive.

Stax the Foyer

Vhailorx wrote:

It may also be worth re-evaluating direct but prices. Is it really reasonable to charge almost $20(us) per cover for the main tier of play?

Given the way covers are purchased, you could charge different prices for different cover ranks. Like, you can buy your second cover of a particular color for 500 HP, your third for 1000 HP, your fourth for 2000 HP, and your fifth for 2500 HP. Might not make sense to roll that out for 4*s, but could be interesting for 3*s (with the costs scaled down accordingly).

GrumpySmurf1002

Couple other things I'd like to see as far as the transition:

Increased rewards past 7500 in season. Lets be honest, a vast majority of top 100 alliance players are rocketing past this number now. Time to put more carrots out there.

4* at 10000. Another 10 pack at 12500. A big (10000?) reward at 15000. A 42-pack at 20000. Other stuff smattered in between, like another 100HP.

It has to be bold. Even for someone like me, 20000 is a laughable number, but there are players (and we probably know them by name) that would find a way. They should be rewarded for that spending with more than season placement.


Help the Steam players!! This is another somewhat selfish one too. Playing on Steam automatically puts you at an ISO deficit compared to mobile players, because Facebook sharing doesn't exist. He's an insane person with a massive network, but I have an alliance mate pulling tens of thousands of Iso per day before he even touches a tile. If 3* covers are being shared now too, that's an additional 500 iso x however many per week that Steam players don't have access to. It's a minute percentage of the player base, but that kind of inequality is rough. What the solution there is I don't know, beyond the obvious linking of FB that Devs have already said isn't feasible. But there has to be something.


Edit: Forgot one:
4* HP - Buyin PvP I don't think 4* PvPs should become part of the regular rotation because then you risk further slowing the 3* transition. There should be another alternative. So make 100-150HP events with the PvPs featured, run them once a week. Same cover distribution as now, 1 for top 100, 2 top 25, 3 top 5, 4 top 1. Whales will still whale, but there'd still be covers to compete for among the 4* transitioners.

TheOncomingStorm

I don't disagree with op. I'm just not sure what the magic number of 4*s is that gets us there.

I would like to see one pvp per week for 4* placement rewards until we do reach the point where we have enough 4*s for 4*s to be placement rewards for every pvp.

Unknown

The 4* transition is well underway. If you need any more signal of that; notice that you are now allowed to share 3* covers on Facebook.

I apologize for not contributing directly to this thread's intended purpose, but can someone elaborate on this point for a noob (who still needs all 3 star covers) like me? I haven't seen this behavior in-game and want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything.

Malcrof

deiXide wrote:

The 4* transition is well underway. If you need any more signal of that; notice that you are now allowed to share 3* covers on Facebook.

I apologize for not contributing directly to this thread's intended purpose, but can someone elaborate on this point for a noob (who still needs all 3 star covers) like me? I haven't seen this behavior in-game and want to make sure I'm not missing out on anything.

Was about to ask this as well.. never had the option..

btw, i need loads more FB friends, i get like 2 gifts a day..

Buret0

Selling a 4* cover should get you 20,000 ISO, not 1,000 ISO. That way transitioning players would have the option of rostering their new toy or dumping it to fix the ISO gap. Also for those of us who have sold 6 Hulkbuster blue covers and only received 6,000 ISO for it... well it is painful.

Phaserhawk

2 simple changes and 1 add on

1. Get rid of 20 ISO reward, min 100 or a 1* cover

2. 4* should all have Devil Dino level up requirements if not less.

3. Deadpool Daily, more ISO, add a 4* reward, better draw rates, I would start with 1/250 instead of 300

Unknown

24/7 LRs would solve the iso issue. What would be the downside to the devs? (Really asking, not being a smartass)