Hopefully in time for the character survey - An MPQ Census

Der_Lex

snlf25 wrote:

Der_Lex wrote:

Speaking of '90s X-Men... Whatever happened to Bishop? He used to be nearly as popular as Gambit and Cable and the like, and I think his energy absorbtion powers and time travel could translate into interesting game mechanics.

And Forge too. He could be interesting with his power set. I can see a neutralization power, 5 turn countdown, while on the board the enemy team can not use any powers. Could be neat!

Forge is a really cool character, and I still think he and Storm had one of the best comic book romance arcs that Marvel has ever done. Contrary to that, I always felt that the Black Panther/Storm relationship felt really forced, like Marvel was saying 'hey, here's our most popular black hero and out most popular black heroine, they should totally be a couple', and retconned the past of both of them to make it seem like the attraction had always been there.

Plus Fall of the Mutants is one of my favorite X-Men arcs, because it strikes this perfect balance between the resolution of a huge conflict between two cosmic forces and Forge struggling with the demons of his past in an attempt to become the man Storm deserves.

TLCstormz

I LOVVVVVVVE THAT YOU DID THIS!!!!!

Even without reading this thread, though, I can bet all the money in my possession that people responded FURIOUSLY. lol. The the truth is such a bitter pill to swallow.

Hopefully someone brought some popcorn......

snlf25

TLCstormz wrote:

I LOVVVVVVVE THAT YOU DID THIS!!!!!

Even without reading this thread, though, I can bet all the money in my possession that people responded FURIOUSLY. lol. The the truth is such a bitter pill to swallow.

Hopefully someone brought some popcorn......

Well, you'd be wrong but thanks for profiling all of us as bigots. Very big of you. I'll PM you my address so you can send me all your money.

El Satanno

Even with all the bickering and finger-pointing going on, it's really good to see this conversation being had. One funny observation I have is that like many arguments that arise both on and off the internet, there are plenty of folks who cannot/refuse to see this as anything but a binary issue; It's either racist/sexist/etc or it's not. That's an easy trap to fall into.

I'm of the mind that promoting diversity in the lineup of this game is good. I'd like to see interesting characters with interesting powers doing interesting things. It would be great if they could not all be white guys, too, because I gotta see a white guy in the mirror every day.

Malcrof

Unknown

Malcrof wrote:

Unreallystic wrote:

Thor is a woman now!",

If you actually read the comics, so many people and beings have been Thor, this was just another step on the path. Thor will NOT be coming back as we know him, he is back to just being Odinson, the title of Thor (regardless of what the movie said) belongs to whoever holds the hammer, be it Beta Ray Thor, Frog Thor, or the current Jane Foster Thor.

This isn't diversity for diversity's sake, this seems to have been planned out years in advance.

Really nothing else to add to the actual conversation, except this, i would prefer new unique heroes over retcons, Thor may be the only exception.. because in the 2 cases where the one other than Odinson was wielding Mjolnir was truly worthy, Odin made them their own weapons (Beta Ray Bill and Thunderstrike). Odinson knows who has the hammer (she whooped him, it was spectacular) and will not take it from her.

So for Odinson to come back, and Jane to keep going would require making another weapon, which after Thunderstrike, it may not be possible.

/end geek rant

Here;s the problem with that...
its a comic book...
they retcon stuff ALL the time. I remember buying an issue of Xmen solely because they killed Magneto...yeah
I remember them saying "we are taking a hard line stance on death now! Colossus is DEAD!"

Yeah.

So I have no 'doubt' that they are right now trying to persuade the public that this isn't a publicity stunt. I'm positive they are saying and doing everything they can to make it look like it will stick. But anyone who follows comics knows that some how, someway, just like a TV sitcom, things return to norm at some point. They didn't even bother hiding it with Spiderman, they just gave or are giving Miles his own series, so Peter can flourish on his own, and if Miles popularity dips, he'll get the axe, join some random 'teen super power group', and 'Spiderman' will once again just be Peter Parker. Heck Peter Parker was dead not too long ago. You can't take anything they say as 'word' when it comes to permanence.

Hell, they killed Wolverine, and instead of keeping him dead, less than a year later they just retcon the universe to bring him back as Old Man Logan.

So pardon me, but I stick to my original post, I DO expect Captain America to be Steve Rogers again (oh yeah he died and was to be permanently replaced). I do expect Thor to get mjolnir back, etc. Following the comics now has nothing to do with it. They could chop both of Thor's arms off, poke out both eyes, dye his hair black, and toss him into the sun. At some point he's going to He-man up and get his hammer back.
- Unreall

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

im really sick and tired of people saying dont give me diversity for the sake of diversity

speak-of-the-devil-mentioned-in-earlier-posts...: http://jas720.tumblr.com/post/122731405339

Speaking for myslef its a matter of how that diversity is attained. Changing things for diversity purpose doesn't make me feel like "oh they got me", because as I mentioned previously, I expect it to go back to how it was with only a few exceptions (Nick fury being the biggest). Creating new characters that are diverse and PUSHING them, the same way the force feed us Deadpool and Wolverine is what would make me happy.

In this game, I'm not worried about it. Not only is their a healthy number of black folks in the game, they are WELL represented, and strong. I'm not arguing against adding more, Deathlok, War Machine deserves a spot, Captain Falcon, Miles, Bishop, Misty Knight, etc would all be good adds, but I'm not really going to get up in arms about it here.

I just dont' feel forgotten or biased...most of who's in the game makes sense.
- Unreall

Unknown

I'm just going to TL;DR this whole racist thread, and skip to the end. Djimon Hounsou, in an interview promoting Guardians of the Galaxy, explained why he took a role in a superhero movie:

His son went to him one day and said, "Daddy, I was I was white so I could play as Spider-Man." That's why he took that role. That's why we need diversity in media. That's why girls need Buffy, Barbie, and Michelle Rodriguez. That's why Marvel decided Spider-Man and Captain America should be black, and Thor should be Jane Foster. It's why we have Spider-Gwen, and why Kamala Khan is now an Avenger.

Because we need characters we can see ourselves in. If you're white, you've never struggled to identify yourself with the characters you see, because you are the upside to a skewed system. You are an individual who identifies individually, so you can see yourself in any character. You can identify with Sam Wilson and Shang-Chi. People of colour don't always have that option because society is always telling them in a million little ways how white they aren't, how, "all of you people are the same." So maybe it is a little hard for them to identify with white characters.

Der_Lex

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I'm just going to TL;DR this whole racist thread, and skip to the end.

Because if there's one way to make a positive contribution to what has generally been a pretty civil and interesting discussion, and to make people sympathetic to your point of view, it's ignoring what everybody else has said so far and just call them racists. That really makes me interested in what you have to say.

Unknown

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I'm just going to TL;DR this whole racist thread, and skip to the end. Djimon Hounsou, in an interview promoting Guardians of the Galaxy, explained why he took a role in a superhero movie:

His son went to him one day and said, "Daddy, I was I was white so I could play as Spider-Man." That's why he took that role. That's why we need diversity in media. That's why girls need Buffy, Barbie, and Michelle Rodriguez. That's why Marvel decided Spider-Man and Captain America should be black, and Thor should be Jane Foster. It's why we have Spider-Gwen, and why Kamala Khan is now an Avenger.

Because we need characters we can see ourselves in. If you're white, you've never struggled to identify yourself with the characters you see, because you are the upside to a skewed system. You are an individual who identifies individually, so you can see yourself in any character. You can identify with Sam Wilson and Shang-Chi. People of colour don't always have that option because society is always telling them in a million little ways how white they aren't, how, "all of you people are the same." So maybe it is a little hard for them to identify with white characters.

What I've read, it seems most folks are actually pretty good with diversity being there, and I don't think they are "putting up a front" type of comments, I believe the sincerity in them. I think that flies in general, the back and forth is usually about 'how'. In the DD movie, they turned Kingpen into a black guy, people had issues with it, same goes for in the new FF movie (I don't care MBJ is going to kill it at HT - I can see it). Fury was turned to a black guy, Spiderman was turned into a mixed kid (both in comics). Is that an acceptable means of achieving diversity, altering established to put them in high profile places - or is creation of new characters and hoping they stick - a better way to go about it?

I'm in the latter, I dislike retconning, and feel a character is as strong as their push. Deadpool toiled around in the recess of the MU for a decade before he started gaining any real momentum, and MU pushed the hell out of him. Of course Wolverine is going to be one of the most fan favorited characters, he was carrying like 6 different series and minisereies at the same time. Give that kind of attention to new characters. I'm actually GOOD with what they did with Spiderman, not killing the old one, and already letting Miles flourish in his own series. Give him a strong push - he is liked.

But do we expect X-23 to stay as 'Wolverine'? Going back to it, 'Odinson' will be Thor again at some point - he could spit in Jesus's eye and they'll find a way, especially with FemThor being riddled with cancer last I checked. Captain America? does ANYONE think Falcon will stick? Just give Falcon a strong push and let him fly, don't shoe horn him.
- Unreall

Der_Lex

I know there's been mutterings online about Torch in the new FF movie, but was there really such discontent about Michael Clarke Duncan playing Kingpin in DD? Because he was the only person in that entire movie who completely nailed his part.

Unknown

Der_Lex wrote:

I know there's been mutterings online about Torch in the new FF movie, but was there really such discontent about Michael Clarke Duncan playing Kingpin in DD? Because he was the only person in that entire movie who completely nailed his part.

daredevil was too much of a failure for people to care.

Also, recasting villian isn't as much of a faux pas as recasting heroes

Unreallystic wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

im really sick and tired of people saying dont give me diversity for the sake of diversity

speak-of-the-devil-mentioned-in-earlier-posts...: http://jas720.tumblr.com/post/122731405339

Speaking for myslef its a matter of how that diversity is attained. Changing things for diversity purpose doesn't make me feel like "oh they got me", because as I mentioned previously, I expect it to go back to how it was with only a few exceptions (Nick fury being the biggest). Creating new characters that are diverse and PUSHING them, the same way the force feed us Deadpool and Wolverine is what would make me happy.

In this game, I'm not worried about it. Not only is their a healthy number of black folks in the game, they are WELL represented, and strong. I'm not arguing against adding more, Deathlok, War Machine deserves a spot, Captain Falcon, Miles, Bishop, Misty Knight, etc would all be good adds, but I'm not really going to get up in arms about it here.

I just dont' feel forgotten or biased...most of who's in the game makes sense.
- Unreall

we need more than black folk as awesome as it is to have such a smattering, as the OP said. There's lots of women and POC that aren't represented right now

Malcrof wrote:

inappropriate image

plz leave this out of the thread omg....

Vertigozooropa wrote:

I'm just going to TL;DR this whole racist thread, and skip to the end. Djimon Hounsou, in an interview promoting Guardians of the Galaxy, explained why he took a role in a superhero movie:

His son went to him one day and said, "Daddy, I was I was white so I could play as Spider-Man." That's why he took that role. That's why we need diversity in media. That's why girls need Buffy, Barbie, and Michelle Rodriguez. That's why Marvel decided Spider-Man and Captain America should be black, and Thor should be Jane Foster. It's why we have Spider-Gwen, and why Kamala Khan is now an Avenger.

Because we need characters we can see ourselves in. If you're white, you've never struggled to identify yourself with the characters you see, because you are the upside to a skewed system. You are an individual who identifies individually, so you can see yourself in any character. You can identify with Sam Wilson and Shang-Chi. People of colour don't always have that option because society is always telling them in a million little ways how white they aren't, how, "all of you people are the same." So maybe it is a little hard for them to identify with white characters.

most of this thread is pretty reasonable, with the exception of 1 racist and 1 troll

Malcrof

raisinbman wrote:

Malcrof wrote:

inappropriate image

plz leave this out of the thread omg....

Which one, i posted 2?

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

Thank you, OP for the graphs and info. I'll make sure the thread and the comments herein are seen by D3 Go! and Demiurge.

The topic is important and much of the discussion has been respectful. However, some of the comments walk the line of breaking forum rules and there is too much potential in the thread for intolerant commentary and hurt feelings. Even if unintended.

Closing the thread.