So who is the most annoying defense deterrent?

ayatorahxephon
ayatorahxephon Posts: 94 Match Maker
edited July 2015 in MPQ General Discussion
Same as the topic above, I am just wondering which characters are an auto skip in high level pvp for you? The Thing + hood? Carnage? Nick Fury? Hulk Buster + IF?
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Comments

  • El Satanno
    El Satanno Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    Nobody.

    If we're talking about high-level PvP (800+ points) then there is no team out there that I would auto-skip if they were worth enough. This is doubly true if you start getting higher than most people in your bracket or slice, and all you're seeing are 5-point matches. I try to avoid Prof X/Carnage duos, but if that's what will net me 50+ points when I'm at or above 1000, then I will fight the hell out of them.
  • dr tinykittylove
    dr tinykittylove Posts: 1,459 Chairperson of the Boards
    El Satanno wrote:
    Nobody.

    If we're talking about high-level PvP (800+ points) then there is no team out there that I would auto-skip if they were worth enough. This is doubly true if you start getting higher than most people in your bracket or slice, and all you're seeing are 5-point matches. I try to avoid Prof X/Carnage duos, but if that's what will net me 50+ points when I'm at or above 1000, then I will fight the hell out of them.

    Kill all the things! Though in Cat-5, when picking targets for shield hops, I always went for hb/fist and hb/carnage when available over anyone/hood. Too much risk of running into a stall/drag-out match with buffed hood and no quick damage on my mororo/kamala/hood team. In Lethal Intent with Gamora there was no difficulty.
  • OnesOwnGrief
    OnesOwnGrief Posts: 1,387 Chairperson of the Boards
    Yeah, the only deterrent is gonna be whoever a person think that they can't handle. You see a lot of IMHB and IF at the top level but those can be defeated easily as well.
  • ronin_san
    ronin_san Posts: 980 Critical Contributor
    I would skip Falcon, Hood, and Loki, but because I don't want to use them to negate them.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    I think there are really two categories of defensive play now.

    Below 800, most decent defensive lineups will be just fine (most anything with imhb, carnage, cage, if, the best boosted 3*s etc). there are plenty of viable targets, so anything that can guarantee damage will keep most attackers away as they will just pick easier prey.

    But above 800, and especially above 900, almost everyone is either hopping or shielded. so there are are very few high-point targets, and those that are available are only queue-able for a few minutes (and only if you spend hundreds of iso skipping). those factors really change the defensive game. Taking damage in a match isn't as problematic for attackers that are just trying to finish 1 or 2 matches before shielding again, so even irritating opponents like carnage and iron fist that guarantee lots of damage loose a lot of their teeth. And the lack of premium targets means that it's worth fighting anyone that will offer more than 45 points. I don't yet have a full 4* roster to test my hypothesis, but I suspect that massive healthpools (e.g. 4*thor, IMHB, Thing, or Carnage when boosted) are the best deterrent possible at super high scores. You can't keep people from attacking you, but you can try to make sure that those matches take as long as possible so that you can finish your own hops in peace.
  • El Satanno
    El Satanno Posts: 1,005 Chairperson of the Boards
    Vhailorx wrote:
    *snip*

    You can't keep people from attacking you, but you can try to make sure that those matches take as long as possible so that you can finish your own hops in peace.

    This right here is a very valuable observation, my friend. I was just reading the Thing write-up and thinking about how agonizingly long fighting a team with him and Hulkbuster would be during a hop. Boosted? Holy ****...yeah, maybe that's an auto-skip, but only because I'm trying to get matches done fast.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    El Satanno wrote:
    Vhailorx wrote:
    *snip*

    You can't keep people from attacking you, but you can try to make sure that those matches take as long as possible so that you can finish your own hops in peace.

    This right here is a very valuable observation, my friend. I was just reading the Thing write-up and thinking about how agonizingly long fighting a team with him and Hulkbuster would be during a hop. Boosted? Holy ****...yeah, maybe that's an auto-skip, but only because I'm trying to get matches done fast.


    yup, but I don't know that Thing alone will get it done. He has health that will drag out defensive matches, but he doesn't have fast offense. Ideally you want someone with tons of health who also packs a solid punch and preferably accelerates their own moves *cough*imhb*cough*. I do, however, like the idea of hiding IMHB's 18k health behind Thing's yellow passive. They only have 4 active covers between them, but a 3/5/5 Thing and 5/5/3 IMHB would be an annoying team to fight. You have to burn through all of Thing while simultaneously denying IMHB red/black. And Thing can do some real damage if he manages to collect 12 green while you are busying denying IMHB.
  • ThatOneGuyjp189512
    ThatOneGuyjp189512 Posts: 543 Critical Contributor
    There is also the annoyance factor, how often do their animations go off? Do they healing abilities? Do they have really annoying passives? In mstorm pvp I ran maxed Carnage/KK with her and I got hit a grand total of 3 times the entire pvp even when I was sitting at 750 for a day, the reason most likely is cause having to endure carnage animations every power fired and the fact you're almost guaranteed to need a health pack or 2. Another factor is synergy, do their best powers clash? How does the AI handle them? There really is no undefeatable team, there are teams that'll scare people off but no one is invincible.
  • mr_X
    mr_X Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    Not at the top level yet but edging closer to 1k, but I still don't like fighting OBW.

    Especially boosted, but as the prior posters have mentioned you have to take on anyone once you reach a certain point. Especially if you get caught in a match up loop of limited targets.

    Took down a well covered carnage the other day because of the points and also to get some payback for the venom heroic.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    Vhailorx wrote:
    I don't yet have a full 4* roster to test my hypothesis, but I suspect that massive healthpools (e.g. 4*thor, IMHB, Thing, or Carnage when boosted) are the best deterrent possible at super high scores. You can't keep people from attacking you, but you can try to make sure that those matches take as long as possible so that you can finish your own hops in peace.

    I agree that at the higher scoring levels, the most important concern to shield hoppers is how long it would take to finish a match and reshield to avoid getting sniped. Thus, the defense's overall health is a major consideration. If you have a choice of 50k+ health or 30k+ health to target, and both are worth similar amount of points, 90% of the time players will hit the lower health defense.

    Because of the scoring increase (50% more for wins compared to before), players carrying high scores could lose 200+ easily from snipes on an extended match, and thereby negating the points gained from the shield hop.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    mr_X wrote:
    Took down a well covered carnage the other day because of the points and also to get some payback for the venom heroic.

    Hold on. I don't understand why you would mix pve and pvp events. If I'm competing with someone for placement in both pve and pvp, I wouldn't hold a grudge if I lose out in pve placement and hit the same guy in pvp. However, if the same player is in my season bracket and comes up in pvp, I wouldn't mind knocking him down a peg or two because you're hitting two birds with the same stone. But once pve event is over, results don't carry. Heck, if someone is able to beat me out in pve placement, I just say "congratulations" and move on.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    edited July 2015
    ThatOneGuyjp189512 wrote:
    There is also the annoyance factor, how often do their animations go off? Do they healing abilities? Do they have really annoying passives? In mstorm pvp I ran maxed Carnage/KK with her and I got hit a grand total of 3 times the entire pvp even when I was sitting at 750 for a day, the reason most likely is cause having to endure carnage animations every power fired and the fact you're almost guaranteed to need a health pack or 2. Another factor is synergy, do their best powers clash? How does the AI handle them? There really is no undefeatable team, there are teams that'll scare people off but no one is invincible.

    For mohawk I did a soft climb with max cage and 120s carnage with a single black cover. Only 2 players bothered to hit me while I sat unshielded on day 2. I switched over to hood/kk for my hard climb though, because that teamup is much faster and I liked to challenge replica teams. icon_lol.gif
  • mr_X
    mr_X Posts: 375 Mover and Shaker
    puppychow wrote:
    mr_X wrote:
    Took down a well covered carnage the other day because of the points and also to get some payback for the venom heroic.

    Hold on. I don't understand why you would mix pve and pvp events. If I'm competing with someone for placement in both pve and pvp, I wouldn't hold a grudge if I lose out in pve placement and hit the same guy in pvp. However, if the same player is in my season bracket and comes up in pvp, I wouldn't mind knocking him down a peg or two because you're hitting two birds with the same stone. But once pve event is over, results don't carry. Heck, if someone is able to beat me out in pve placement, I just say "congratulations" and move on.

    Yes I would not either. It was carnage I was attacking not a person. Seriously half the time I don't even read the names of the people I am attacking.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    mr_X wrote:
    puppychow wrote:
    mr_X wrote:
    Took down a well covered carnage the other day because of the points and also to get some payback for the venom heroic.

    Hold on. I don't understand why you would mix pve and pvp events. If I'm competing with someone for placement in both pve and pvp, I wouldn't hold a grudge if I lose out in pve placement and hit the same guy in pvp. However, if the same player is in my season bracket and comes up in pvp, I wouldn't mind knocking him down a peg or two because you're hitting two birds with the same stone. But once pve event is over, results don't carry. Heck, if someone is able to beat me out in pve placement, I just say "congratulations" and move on.

    Yes I would not either. It was carnage I was attacking not a person. Seriously half the time I don't even read the names of the people I am attacking.

    ah! I misunderstood ya. Sorry about that! icon_lol.gif
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    Vhailorx wrote:
    yup, but I don't know that Thing alone will get it done. He has health that will drag out defensive matches, but he doesn't have fast offense. Ideally you want someone with tons of health who also packs a solid punch and preferably accelerates their own moves *cough*imhb*cough*. I do, however, like the idea of hiding IMHB's 18k health behind Thing's yellow passive. They only have 4 active covers between them, but a 3/5/5 Thing and 5/5/3 IMHB would be an annoying team to fight. You have to burn through all of Thing while simultaneously denying IMHB red/black. And Thing can do some real damage if he manages to collect 12 green while you are busying denying IMHB.

    The health pool issue is why I decided to finally max out my 355 punpun two weeks ago, because he's the only guy with the ability to take down these elephants quickly. Team him up with Kamala, use her embiggened fists then mope up with his retribution.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    it depends, but powered up folks can be pretty bad. But considering my 3* roster can take on hulkbuster, I'd be willing to fight anyone for the right price...

    Defensive deterrents as a 2* player: OBW, Ares, Hulk(no way to stun him so he's hard to fight)

    Defensive deterrents as a 3*: When they have so much HP/Damage/The Hood so that by time you're done fighting one, another will DEFINITELY do their ability. Possibly Hulk if you don't have a stunner 1HKO-er. Big HP matches(powered up characters like the hulk can SUCCCCKKKK to fight)
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    El Satanno wrote:

    This right here is a very valuable observation, my friend. I was just reading the Thing write-up and thinking about how agonizingly long fighting a team with him and Hulkbuster would be during a hop. Boosted? Holy ****...yeah, maybe that's an auto-skip, but only because I'm trying to get matches done fast.

    I fully expect to see whales carrying Deadpool, Hulkbuster, and Thing for shield defense at the end of this season. icon_twisted.gif
  • Square
    Square Posts: 380 Mover and Shaker
    Carnage is doable, but costs 3 health packs when boosted, so I have skipped a lot. I had a match with a boosted Thing and a Hood, and that was enough to put me off that in the near future, until I get magic hacking powers to fast-forward through that.
  • Wonko33
    Wonko33 Posts: 985 Critical Contributor
    puppychow wrote:
    El Satanno wrote:

    This right here is a very valuable observation, my friend. I was just reading the Thing write-up and thinking about how agonizingly long fighting a team with him and Hulkbuster would be during a hop. Boosted? Holy ****...yeah, maybe that's an auto-skip, but only because I'm trying to get matches done fast.

    I fully expect to see whales carrying Deadpool, Hulkbuster, and Thing for shield defense at the end of this season. icon_twisted.gif

    Close to 2000 in SSim, I was in a rush , saw the high points and didn't think of the ramifications of a Thing-deadpool team.

    After an attack on DP, Thing jumped right in, ****!
    I got them them because I could stun with 4thor and the board was not too red intensive but it felt like it took for ever.
  • MyFeetStink
    MyFeetStink Posts: 55 Match Maker
    OnesOwnGrief wrote:
    Yeah, the only deterrent is gonna be whoever a person think that they can't handle. You see a lot of IMHB and IF at the top level but those can be defeated easily as well.

    How?

    I would be interested to know what approach you take with this. I am just now starting to get deep enough with maxed 3*s to have viable boosted teams each week but I still have a long ways to go. I will take on teams with 4* thor and x-force no problem, but other 4*s I tend to shy away from. Not sure if thats me being a wimp or if I am not to that level yet. I would be interested to know how strong of a roster you need to take down IMHB and IF.

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