PVE Community Scaling Update

David [Hi-Fi] Moore

Hi everyone,

Here's an update from Demiurge on Community Scaling:

The response has been overwhelmingly positive, so we're going to disable the difficulty adjustment system and continue to collect data on this change. This change will go into effect after The Hunt Story event concludes.

We want to run one additional test, rewarding a new character in a Story event, to make sure no unforeseen issues arise. If that goes well, we'll leave the system disabled permanently.

Thanks for all the feedback on our difficulty adjustment test!

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Most Story events use a system where the difficulty of missions is adjusted based on how the community is faring against them. If they’re harder than expected, they’ll get easier over the course of the event, and if they’re easier than expected, they’ll get harder.

As we announced in our June Q&A video, we’re experimenting with turning off that system. We’ll run that test with the Prodigal Sun event starting June 11th and the Oscorp: Heroic event starting June 22nd.

We’re running the test in two events in order to understand how the change affects both long and short events, and both events with a restricted roster and events without one. Neither of these events will award a new character.

The other major piece of the difficulty adjustment system, where mission difficulty is adjusted so that events are playable whether you’re a highly experienced player or a newer one, is unchanged during this test. We’re considering changes to that system separately.

For Support, please use the in-game contact form in the top right, or this form for Steam players: https://d3publisherofamerica.zendesk.co ... quests/new

Unknown

I'm very optimistic about this change, I have to say. Scaling has been nuts on the Hunt.

JVReal

Thank you, much appreciated.

CaptainFreaky

Hurrah for Positive Post Monday!!!
I'll take this as a step in the right direction!
While it would have been nice to see some data on whether turning off community scaling resulted in anything noticeable (eg bunching of scores or how many extra matches per player were recorded on average), I will accept that this is being done due to overwhelming customer feedback.

And I'll also remember that when the user base has overwhelming feedback on other changes in the future.....

Unknown

that's nice and all, but Did 4* chance increase yet?

Unknown

Awesome news!

Although in the old days, a certain member of the forum would probably come in and complain that with this change, the only advantage max rosters have in PvE (enemy level cap at 395) is now gone and max rosters could no longer compete in PvE. Those were the days.

Linkster79

Casual players of the world rejoice! No longer shall we sleep, work and spend time with our families and be scaled out of playing story events. Now we can relax with Deadpools Daily and a little bit of PvE on the side just for fits and giggles.

Like others I am rather curious to hear developers feedback on if things went as hoped while community scaling was off, or if it was an unmitigated disaster and it is being switched off again due to overwhelming forum feedback. At least we can know that if the brown stuff does hit the windmill then it is through our own fault and we have made our bed so we have to lie in it.

simonsez

Can you confirm whether the Venom Heroic has scaling turned on or off?

In the interest of providing you feedback, I'm finding this event to be unplayable. The problem, aside from the typical crippled, no-synergy roster, is that the initial opponent levels are being based on the levels of my Fury and Carnage, two characters that are of no help against muscle goons. And despite wiping multiple times, I still don't see levels going down at all.

In other words, while turning off scaling is appreciated, you still need to rethink how the initial difficulty levels are being set and modified.

lymang

Awesome. Second the post about Venom being quite difficult. But super happy to hear about scaling being off. Yay!

Unknown

I think the devs' fear is the points would be bunched up at the top because of the lowered difficulty.

I personally think as long as the reward is worth the effort, points will be bunched up at the top, especially with the 10 health packs + health packs from vault. It's basically a bid for the top rewards with time and resources spent, and the better the reward, the more players are willing spend trying to outbid their competitors. My bracket for The Hunt is only 5k difference from #1 to #10, with top 3 only 750 pts apart.

I also don't mind the points looking like they are very close. In reality, the distance from 98% to 98.5% score is extremely large when both players are playing near perfectly. I am 300 pts behind dkffiv with 1 sub left and I know there is no way I'll be able to pass him.

simonsez

Davyx wrote:

My bracket for The Hunt is only 5k difference from #1 to #10, with top 3 only 750 pts apart.

Mine is over, and only 256 points separated the top 3. So you're absolutely right, score bunching is a function of what the prizes are, not scaling.

DaveR4470

Huzzah! Caloo! Callay!

turul

Waiting for personal scaling to dissapear too!
Don't punish us for leveling characters / playing better or more than others!

TLCstormz

Yaaaaaaaaay!

Ducky

simonsez wrote:

Davyx wrote:

My bracket for The Hunt is only 5k difference from #1 to #10, with top 3 only 750 pts apart.

Mine is over, and only 256 points separated the top 3. So you're absolutely right, score bunching is a function of what the prizes are, not scaling.

I disagree. I finished The Hunt with 10k more points than 3rd place and 3k more than second.

hex706f726368

DuckyV wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Davyx wrote:

My bracket for The Hunt is only 5k difference from #1 to #10, with top 3 only 750 pts apart.

Mine is over, and only 256 points separated the top 3. So you're absolutely right, score bunching is a function of what the prizes are, not scaling.

I disagree. I finished The Hunt with 10k more points than 3rd place and 3k more than second.

Similar for me, 6k over 2nd and 9.6k over 3rd. I have had some tighter brackets though. I think it's definitely more likely to happen for new covers, but it really depends on how many of us nutjobs get sharded into the same bracket.

I think the new cover no community scaling event will be the first real test of turning off community scaling. My prediction/suspicion is that it's going to really amplify the racing factor of PvE. It could shift the final grind from who can sustain through the overscaled nodes to a game of chicken of who can start the latest on their final grind and still clear the whole thing or at least more than anyone you're competing with. So really, it'll probably only affect the very top end (probably an overall benefit for the larger population).

Stax the Foyer

hex706f726368 wrote:

DuckyV wrote:

simonsez wrote:

Davyx wrote:

My bracket for The Hunt is only 5k difference from #1 to #10, with top 3 only 750 pts apart.

Mine is over, and only 256 points separated the top 3. So you're absolutely right, score bunching is a function of what the prizes are, not scaling.

I disagree. I finished The Hunt with 10k more points than 3rd place and 3k more than second.

Similar for me, 6k over 2nd and 9.6k over 3rd. I have had some tighter brackets though. I think it's definitely more likely to happen for new covers, but it really depends on how many of us nutjobs get sharded into the same bracket.

Some of that can also be how savvy the top players are. A fairly small lead at the beginning of the final sub can be insurmountable, if people are grinding near-optimally, or if you've got a PvE machine at the top of your bracket. Not everybody realizes that, though, or maybe they play to the wire in hopes that the bracket leader's phone gives out at the end.

If the player in third place sees the writing on the wall and lets off the gas, you can get some serious separation, since the top player may still need to grind for a while to make sure that the lead is secure. That can happen even when things are tight through the first few subs.

Davyx wrote:

I am 300 pts behind dkffiv with 1 sub left and I know there is no way I'll be able to pass him.

Not everybody understands this, but when they do, it makes the end a lot nicer. If I'm just outside of a threshhold that I know I won't pass, I've even messaged people in front of me on LINE to let them know that I'm calling off the dogs.

simonsez

Stax the Foyer wrote:

I've even messaged people in front of me on LINE to let them know that I'm calling off the dogs.

"A communique' from Stax. He's retreating"

"Yes.. that's EXACTLY what he wants us to think. Grind at double-speed! Go! Go! Go!"

Ducky

Also, if this change is going to be permanent, I'd like to see something put in place to prevent people from intentionally under-leveling their characters so they can game the scaling system.

Fair is fair.

Stax the Foyer

simonsez wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

I've even messaged people in front of me on LINE to let them know that I'm calling off the dogs.

"A communique' from Stax. He's retreating"

"Yes.. that's EXACTLY what he wants us to think. Grind at double-speed! Go! Go! Go!"

Re-verify our range to bracket leader. Ping the leaderboards

One ping only.

Unknown

DuckyV wrote:

Also, if this change is going to be permanent, I'd like to see something put in place to prevent people from intentionally under-leveling their characters so they can game the scaling system.

Fair is fair.

they cant get 1300 in pvp, sounds good to me