Need help, i want to hit 1k progression this season!

morph3us

meekersX wrote:

I still don't understand how to hit 1k progression. Whenever I try to go past 800-850 points I get hit for attacks for more points than I can earn in the same amount of time. The particularly frustrating thing is getting hit by people 200+ points below me for a ton of points even though they have significantly more developed rosters.

The only thing I can think of is to try to push at less popular times. Trying to push with 4-5 hours left in an event appears to be too popular still with the plan to use the 3h shield after. However, trying to push at 9-10 hours left and there just doesn't seem to be a reasonable amount of points available. I seem to hover at ~600 unshielded, so I need a shield to remain higher, but it takes me more than 10 health packs to get to 1000 from there.

I feel pretty stuck.

Are you shield hopping when you're at 800-850 points, meekers?

Here's the deal. You seem to have found your equilibrium point at 600, where you can generally remain stable without losing too many points. That means, any points you accrue beyond that point will generally make you a target for more developed rosters than yours.

A general rule of thumb is this: you can usually make it 3 matches past your equilibrium point before you start taking significant hits. So, if your equilibrium point is 600, and assuming you're lining up matches of around a 50 point value, I'd expect you to start taking hits around 750+, which is what is happening. If your progression target is beyond that point, you're going to have to shield hop to get there.

A second point: if your point score is below 800, the matchmaking algorithm tends to protect you to a certain extent by only matching you (both offensively and defensively) with players around your point total, so you tend not to take hits from climbers way below you, which prevents massive point losses (this is mostly true, as far as we can tell). The moment you cross beyond 800 points, you become available as a target to everyone in your time slice, which is why climbing beyond 800 is harder than the climb below.

You'll find that shield hopping is a necessity until you develop your roster to a stage that you can park just below 800 points. When you get to that stage, you can mostly dash from your equilibrium point of just below 800 to 1000 in one burst, without needing to shield hop.

For your sort of equilibrium point, my take would be this. Work your way up to 600 or so. Wait for your health packs to regenerate, and for any retals to clear. Then fight your way as high as you can, and drop your first shield when you think it's necessary. This probably is going to be between 725 and 800, at a guess (but it depends on who's boosted in your roster for the week too). Then shield hop in two match fights to 1K. Squeeze in a third match if it's a quiet time. I think you should be able to hit 1K with a one or two shields, at a guess.

The point of shield hopping is to be quick. You want to give any attackers minimal time to finish any matches against you, and as short a time as possible to line you up. The fewer queues you're on, the safer the hop will be.

In terms of timing, I tend to start early, and push up in stages. If I'm aiming for 1K, I want to be at least at 650 a day before the event ends. You need to give time for any retals from lower scoring players to clear, since those will hurt quite a bit if you're a high score when they land. I don't want to be hopping in the last 4-5 hours, unless it's a single hop to my final goal. It's too busy at that stage. Definitely don't break shields in the last three hours, unless you're desperate.

meekersX

Thanks very much for the responses!

For Idol of Millions, I need to avoid the failures of my previous attempts. In the previous two events, I didn't care about my final placement, but a top 25 finish would finish my Cyclops here. I do expect an extremely competitive event though.

At about 2am ET, I entered the bracket ending at 3am ET. I was able to grind nearly the entirety of 0-800 without a single retaliation in about an hour and a half and using only a single health pack. As morph3us hinted at, something curious happened as soon as I passed 800 and received that progression reward. I started receiving hits about once every 5 minutes on average. In fact, even though it's 5am ET now, I could not fight matches fast enough to gain points and in fact I have now slipped to 542! I'm concerned that I may have adversely affected my chances by going beyond 800 so early in the event, but the attacks also seem to have greatly slowed.

I received hits multiple times from the same people: I think I've counted a triple hit and even a quadruple hit. Quite a few of these teams seem ridiculously strong to me too: they have boosted Hulkbuster and either Iron Fist or boosted Scarlet Witch. I could fight them, but not quickly, or without using health packs, or even much confidence in victory.

Hopefully the activity is just others getting set in a new bracket and I can reach a higher equilibrium point. If not, I think shield hopping to 1k may be a very expensive proposition in this event. I'm not even sure if 1k will guarantee top 25 which is the only way I think I could justify the time and expense.

meekersX

Got knocked to 410 points overnight. I guess Patch/Daken isn't a very good defensive team. The boosted characters suck for me this week unfortunately. Maybe I'll put Iso-8 into Sentry solely for defense.

meekersX

So I'm trying to get to 880 before using my first shield, but I can't quite make it at the moment. Maybe too many people are playing. I'm also not sure what team I can use to win matches quickly that's deters people on defense as well. I'll try again later tonight after thinking a bit more about my pushing team.

meekersX

I really hate getting hit by the same person 3-4 times in under 30m. Extremely frustrating.

meekersX

I... I... I feel like giving up. I'm exhausted grinding for hours and not making any progress. At this point, I feel like if you don't have the "right" characters maxed it's an exercise in futility to get to 1k points. In particular having a maxed 4 seems quite useful, but this doesn't exactly help to get one's first. Beyond that, having the boosted characters maxed seems to be the only deterrent to being attacked. However, I think I have identified a problem.

Examine this week's boosted characters:
Daken
Falcon
Sentry
Scarlet Witch
Spider-Man

They're terrible! Almost no one is pushing with them. Falcon and Spider-Man have no offense, Scarlet Witch is new enough that almost no one has her maxed, Sentry kills you own team and has lackluster damage. Daken seems like the only decent one, but is also not an offensive powerhouse.

I'm not scared of any teams with these characters, so I don't know why anyone else would be either. When any team is beatable by any other team, anyone that climbs too far above the pack immediately becomes a target for the rest due to their superior point value. This happens as soon as you pass about 800 points and the matchmaking algorithm switches to allowing you to be hit by anyone in your time slice. There's simply too many people that can hit you.

As I see it, there are only two options in this situation: (1) have a team that deters attacks even in the face of overwhelming numbers (these are your whales with maxed Hulkbusters, Iron Fists, Scarlet Witches). (2) shield hop 1-2 matches all the way from 800-1000.

Examining the second option, assume we optimistically finish 2 matches without getting hit for 30 points each during each hop. This requires 3-4 hops (800 + 60 + 60 + 60). 3h + 8h + 3h + 8h would probably be ideal, depending of course on whether placement matters. Given my limited experience, I think the ideal would be to shield just under 800 and then go 2 matches at a time from there.

It's quite possible my analysis is wrong, but I feel a bit better if I understand the problem at least. For now, I need sleep.

meekersX

Well I made an attempt to shield hop from 820 to beyond 900. I finished two ~40 point matches in decent time, although Daken's heal feels like it slows down matches significantly. However, just as I exited the second match, I was hit by someone over 200 points below me for quite a bit. I immediately put on an 8h shield to finish the hop at 871.

I'm going to need to make another attempt at hopping before the end of the event as 871 is 25th place as it stands. I think 1k is out of reach for this event now as that's 4 matches. The goal now is to finish top 25 for the two Cyclops covers, sad as that is. If I can finish top 25 to get the last black cover I need, I suppose that's not too bad for 300 hp.

morph3us

meekersX wrote:

Examining the second option, assume we optimistically finish 2 matches without getting hit for 30 points each during each hop. This requires 3-4 hops (800 + 60 + 60 + 60). 3h + 8h + 3h + 8h would probably be ideal, depending of course on whether placement matters. Given my limited experience, I think the ideal would be to shield just under 800 and then go 2 matches at a time from there.

I think your analysis is spot on. The only thing I'd add is that you should be aiming for matches worth 45+ points each when you hop. There's usually a fair amount of iso spend required in hitting the skip button when you shield hop. You just need to keep on periodically cycling through targets until you can find some high value points. Keep on periodically checking the leaderboard for people unshielding and hopping, and then cycle through until you can find them. Wait for them to reshield before hitting them - that way, you're guaranteed a good point total. If you let them finish hopping, they'll be worth more than their advertised value, and they don't get a retal option on you (plus, it's good karma not to snipe).

Ideally, you want to have both matches complete within 5-6 minutes tops, and your shields back up at that point. You can let that run a bit longer if you've got a solid meat shield, but they're pretty much all 4*s (IMHB, 4*Thor, Thing).

Speed is critical. Don't worry about taking damage in the match - you're better off winning the match fast and having characters downed, than winning the match with minimal damage. Use your health packs.

Are you boosting when you hop? You'll find that your matches go much, much quicker, if you iso boost (and even quicker if you use those invaluable +2 all AP boosts).

meekersX

I made an attempt to hop. Had two matches of at least 45 points lined up. I was nervous because one was X-Force + Iron Fist and the other was Hulkbuster + Iron Fist. I used +R/Y, +B/G, and +All boosts and I completed both matches in 7 minutes flat. However, I came out of the second match having been hit twice. This put me at 900 from 871, so I lost over 60 points from those two hits.

I was ranked 38th before hopping, and I'm ranked 37th now. I can see 32nd is 961 points now. I don't need the Cyclops cover, so this placement is fairly useless. I somewhat regret using a 3h shield since I'll only get 50 HP if I finish top 50 for a net -25.

I suppose I could make one more attempt to hop in an hour or so. I wish I could see where the cut off is for top 25. Amusingly enough, I just had a defensive victory come in for +11 points, so I'm at 911 now, down to 38th place though. This would also mean if I could win two 45+ point matches I could hit 1k, ugh.

Honestly, I'm pretty disheartened at the moment. I could feel my heart sinking in my chest when I saw the hits come in after my second match. I know I shouldn't feel bad because I'm still learning, but goodness it hurts.

morph3us

meekersX wrote:

I suppose I could make one more attempt to hop in an hour or so.

Don't. It's too close to the end of the event. Way too active, you're likely to get sniped mid hop if you try. Safest to hop when you tried before, which is when everyone's asleep.

Shield hopping is really dicey when you first start having the roster that can potentially do it. You're on the mark, though, this week's boosted 3* teams are mostly too slow to be effective, unless you have SW, IMHB, or Thing. Maybe think about taking a break, and see what next week's boosted teams look like?

meekersX

I saw your message morph3us, and took it to heart. However, seeing as placement lower than 25 offers only Iso-8 and Hero Points for me, I decided to go for it anyway. Potentially it would cost me the 50 HP from finishing top 50, but I thought this was a small price to pay for the chance, unlikely as it was.

I did the same thing as I did last time, but this time I had two 50+ point matches lined up. The first was Iron Fist + Luke Cage. I greatly underestimated the amount of time their damnable animations would chew up. Finishing this match took nearly 5 minutes by itself! After finishing it, I was neither top 25 nor over 1000 points so I immediately started the next match. This time I brought out my Whales! Team-Up along with +All and +Team-Up AP boost. It was an Iron Fist + Hulkbuster match and they had a lucky cascade to start things off. I found myself stuck at 13 Team-Up AP until I remembered I could make a green match and use Mohawk Storm's Lightning Strike to get the last Team-Up AP I needed to drop Super Whales! It was a large gamble to use both the Team-Up and Deadpool Points without knowing if I'd been hit meanwhile.

In the end it paid off! Even though this hop took 8 minutes, longer than my first, I was extremely fortunate and was not hit. I now sit at 1025 points! My Thing is now the ideal 0/0/2 build!

I used an 8 hour shield even though I saw myself in 27th place without really thinking. It shielded a -49 point hit under a minute later. I hadn't actually thought that much about what I would do if I succeeded. I figured I would eat multiple hits during my first match and just end the event unshielded. Thinking about it now, it's extremely unlikely enough people above me are going to unshield that I'll advance to 25th or better. I've fallen to 28th place now actually.

I suppose I should be happy. A Thing cover is difficult to obtain, but it will be a long time before its useful to me also. I'm disappointed I won't be getting Cyclops , but it looks like I should have joined late for a fresh bracket to have the best chance of that. 450 HP spent and much learned.

I'm definitely taking it easy in the next PvP. My Human Torch is already perfectly spec'd, and he should be featured in the following event. Plus, I don't earn enough HP or have enough time to do this in every event.

Thanks again for the help.

meekersX

As an addendum, I did one more match at T-5 minutes in the hopes that I could finish top 25, as this only required 10 more points than I had. I finished the match with about 30s to spare. Unfortunately, I was hit once during the match for a net gain of 5 points and a finish of 1030 points in 27th place. Oh well!

meekersX

So, managed to get 1k in Eye for an Eye pretty easily with a single shield. I was fortunate enough to get the last cover I needed for Cyclops from a standard token, so that helped a lot.

I think I've probably failed to get 1k in Hotshot though. I care about that event more, as I could use the Loki cover and I think Professor X is stronger than Nick Fury. During my final hop, a match that was supposed to be 46 points only awarded 15! I was also hit once during my second match. I took a gamble and played a third match, but was hit once during that match as well. I'm sitting at 950 points in 21st place at the moment. I could try one more hop with the 24 hour shield, or forgo the Loki cover, but it's so late in the event I think I'd have to be pretty lucky. Going to see if 950 looks like it might hold out for 25th place for now.

My main concern at the moment is how do you account for a match giving less than one third of the points it's supposed to during a hop?

meekersX

As the event was almost over, I had slipped to 31st, so I decided to go for another pseudo-hop at the end.

I was still at 950 and the best match I could find was 46 points, but it was someone that I was fairly certain would finish high. I broke my shield at 6m left in the event and won that match in about 4m for 46 points, leaving me at 996! A defensive victory came in shortly after for 2 points, leaving me at 998! I quickly looked for a match I could win in the 2m that were left in the event. Finding one, I went for it, and won it with seconds to spare. Even that match didn't award as many points as were shown, so I worry that a lot of people may have hit them.

Finished the event at 1017 in 17th, getting both Professor X and the Loki! Quite happy, but also know I was rather fortunate, especially that the defensive victory wasn't a loss.

I think for a newer 3 player, hitting 1000 consistently takes at least 3 shield hops, although 4 is safer. I'm hoping for a week soon where I have two good boosted characters, but I only have 7 166 at the moment. This coming week looks to be painful with Iron Fist boosted. I'll be dumping my Iso-8 into him, though he's 5/2/5 at the moment.

TxMoose

meekersX wrote:

As the event was almost over, I had slipped to 31st, so I decided to go for another pseudo-hop at the end.

I was still at 950 and the best match I could find was 46 points, but it was someone that I was fairly certain would finish high. I broke my shield at 6m left in the event and won that match in about 4m for 46 points, leaving me at 996! A defensive victory came in shortly after for 2 points, leaving me at 998! I quickly looked for a match I could win in the 2m that were left in the event. Finding one, I went for it, and won it with seconds to spare. Even that match didn't award as many points as were shown, so I worry that a lot of people may have hit them.

Finished the event at 1017 in 17th, getting both Professor X and the Loki! Quite happy, but also know I was rather fortunate, especially that the defensive victory wasn't a loss.

I think for a newer 3 player, hitting 1000 consistently takes at least 3 shield hops, although 4 is safer. I'm hoping for a week soon where I have two good boosted characters, but I only have 7 166 at the moment. This coming week looks to be painful with Iron Fist boosted. I'll be dumping my Iso-8 into him, though he's 5/2/5 at the moment.

they arranged it to boost fist between seasons so we'll probably have the current BoP and another throw away event where it doesn't matter. Then they can say - look, we did boost fist, but other than the loki event, people don't have to deal with him much.

spectator

The only reliable way to get the stated points is to hit someone who just popped up in your queue. Someone who has been there for a while especially if they are an easy target will usually have lost significant points and are worth alot less than stated unless they have shielded up. You can also check the leaderboard to see I they are near you or in top ten to estimate their value to you. When shield hopping, I tend to only hit fresh targets

Vhailorx

spectator wrote:

The only reliable way to get the stated points is to hit someone who just popped up in your queue. Someone who has been there for a while especially if they are an easy target will usually have lost significant points and are worth alot less than stated unless they have shielded up. You can also check the leaderboard to see I they are near you or in top ten to estimate their value to you. When shield hopping, I tend to only hit fresh targets

there is (sometimes) a way around this. Look for targets in top alliances (The Best, X-Men, etc). Those players will have tougher teams, but if you are trying to shield hop above 950, then I assume you are prepared/know how to deal with tough enemy teams. The beauty of these targets is many-fold.

(1) the top 10 alliances area always visible on your leaderboard, so you can check your target's score in real time before attacking them
(2) Top alliance members tend to have the best scores and be worth the most points (60+) which makes 1k much easier to reach.
(3) Top alliance members tend to be shielded, which means you don't do them any harm, and they can't retaliate, so it's a real win-win.

It can take a bit of skipping. But this is the best way I have found to queue up several very high point targets during a longer shield. Otherwise you have to check for fresh targets, which means luck of the draw and greater risk of retaliations.

TxMoose

Vhailorx wrote:

(1) the top 10 alliances area always visible on your leaderboard, so you can check your target's score in real time before attacking them
(2) Top alliance members tend to have the best scores and be worth the most points (60+) which makes 1k much easier to reach.
(3) Top alliance members tend to be shielded, which means you don't do them any harm, and they can't retaliate, so it's a real win-win.

1 - brilliant - not sure why I hadn't thought of that before. spent a lot of iso yesterday trying to find one of the 2-3 unshielded on the leaderboard in antman and when I did, by the time I was ready to hop they were usually no longer on the leaderboard. I'd line them up and then really root for them to push up but that only happened once, but a known 38 pt match is more valuable than an unknown 45 pt match to me.
2 - found one of the many x men alliance guys and saved him for later in the event thinking he'd have at least gone to 1K for ant man - well, if he did he left he rest unshielded because what was 50 ended up 20 so that is not always reliable but the t10 alliance ranking is something I will start doing immediately.

Vhailorx

Moose,

People tend not to protect score as much in the off-season. So even top 20 or top 30 alliance members will probably be safe bets starting in God of thunder. In this antman event most everyone, myself included, just went to 1k and fell back down. Not many people grind out 1300 and they are the only ones shielding.

spectator

yeah try again during the season. You will find big alliance members are always worth alot of points