Who are the real top tier 3 stars for pvp?

2

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  • PeterGibbons316
    PeterGibbons316 Posts: 1,063
    I think Luke Cage got hurt with the increase to 10 health packs. With the longer matches, his red offered better sustainability and longer climbs......not as necessary when everyone can now climb for twice as long.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm gonna have to slow you guys up a bit. I keep seeing Rags, Beast, Vision, and Quicksilver bashing

    Quicksilver by himself is bad but with the right team PX/IF you have infinite turn.
    imcoin.png
    Rags, yeah he's hurting although works okay with Xforce and QS

    Vision is not bad, he's just required to be fully leveled and maxed and tanking. If you've had the privilege of eating a Loki Illusions cascade with Visions blue out you haven't lived

    Beast is not bad at all, he's R&G light, he's quicker, more damaging but less resilient I mean Beast's green can blow up the board and do 2K AoE. R&G is just target. In addition while Beast's blue is at best Half as good as R&G's blue it's also twice as fast to cast and twice as fast to resolve

    Rags, IM40, Spidey are probably your bot tier and probably QS since by himself he's not good
    My bad,i dont have covers for beast he can be moved up
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    I'm gonna have to slow you guys up a bit. I keep seeing Rags, Beast, Vision, and Quicksilver bashing

    Quicksilver by himself is bad but with the right team PX/IF you have infinite turn.

    Rags, yeah he's hurting although works okay with Xforce and QS

    Vision is not bad, he's just required to be fully leveled and maxed and tanking. If you've had the privilege of eating a Loki Illusions cascade with Visions blue out you haven't lived

    Beast is not bad at all, he's R&G light, he's quicker, more damaging but less resilient I mean Beast's green can blow up the board and do 2K AoE. R&G is just target. In addition while Beast's blue is at best Half as good as R&G's blue it's also twice as fast to cast and twice as fast to resolve

    Rags, IM40, Spidey are probably your bot tier and probably QS since by himself he's not good

    I also like using Rags with GSBW. Toss out charged green tiles and use GSBW purple for quick Sniper Rifles. May not be the best on defense for PvP, but works well for PvE.
  • Vhailorx
    Vhailorx Posts: 6,085 Chairperson of the Boards
    The "problem" I have with your comments Ducky and Phaserhawk is that OP's question was specifically about PVP. You're not really wrong, but I think you are talking about issues beyond the scope of PVP.

    Rags does have some use as a blue/green battery. But he's not worth bringing into a PVP match.

    I bumped beast up a tier (he used to be pure trash) because his recent revisions did improve him a bit. blue is pretty fast, but still too random to be super reliable. and his green is contingent on board conditions which makes it less reliable than more expensive powers like KK. And he still wastes an ability on pointless burst of health. Perhaps he belongs in the "usable when boosted" tier now, but he's still below average.

    GSBW is a ton of fun to play (IMO, the targeted tile conversion powers are among the most fun in the game), but she's **** on defense. So in PVP she falls into the broad swath of decent 3*s that are great when boosted, but probably not worth when not.
  • Ducky
    Ducky Posts: 2,255 Community Moderator
    Vhailorx wrote:
    The "problem" I have with your comments Ducky and Phaserhawk is that OP's question was specifically about PVP. You're not really wrong, but I think you are talking about issues beyond the scope of PVP.

    Rags does have some use as a blue/green battery. But he's not worth bringing into a PVP match.

    Except I've used them a decent amount this week while they've been boosted. They are great to climb with and can help save healthpacks (I know that they recently bumped them up to 10, but I still like to conserve them in case of some unexpected wipes). Want to get through the first couple hundred points in PvP, they make it pretty quick, then you can swap in your better teams for defense.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    The real go-to powerhouses include Deadpool, Black Panther, Thor, Luke Cage, C.Mags, and Cyclops.

    The best backups include Iron Fist, Blade, Daken, and Scarlet Witch.

    Those should be your go-to hitters.

    As far as team structure goes...

    Blade+Daken is a phenomenally lethal two-man combination that means several hundreds of match damage almost automatically, plus Keep Your Enemies Closer throws on another 2k+ per round, and Daken can tank both black and purple for Blade. Scarlet Witch plus Deadpool is another great combination, letting you throw out Whales a lot quicker than you might otherwise.
    LThor, Black Panther, C.Mags, and Luke Cage are sort of swiss army knives, fitting very nicely into pretty much any team, as they cover odd colors with strong abilities. Righteous Uppercut is probably the best yellow in the game right now, a "**** you" button akin to Surgical Strike or Repulsor Punch.
    Iron Fist is an insane accelerator for black. Throw him in with Luke Cage for double the annoyance with obnoxious passives and Jab Jab Cross (plus they have close to rainbow coverage together), or with Cyclops for similarly awesome coverage and big damage. He's also really solid on his own - anyone who can throw out 4k damage with 5AP tends to be a really dangerous late-game threat.

    Beyond the ones I mentioned, Loki and Hood are neat but tend to be a little squishy for PvP, particularly with the strong passives going around (if I see either on a team I'll just pull out my Blade/Daken team and go to town on them). Some people swear by them; I think 5k health is a little too easy to demolish, although both play very nicely with Luke Cage.

    Rocket&Groot have really weird color coverages and some crazy-strong true healing, which can make them valuable. I don't know, I don't have them, but fighting them on defense is a huge pain.

    Hulk is really solid, and if you have Hulk and Patch, you can basically demolish any node by throwing hulk in front of a berserker rage (although it's kinda rough on the health packs). He is still a pretty potent scarecrow, particularly for teams that rely on strike tiles.

    Doom is good, and covers an unusual color scheme with very aggressive abilities. Not top tier, but definitely worth leveling once you have the ones noted above.

    Patch is useful with Hulk but not much else; Patch/Loki is, even with Loki's buffs, really squishy.

    Human Torch has three good abilities, and might be worth using since the update, I'm not sure. When he was buffed I enjoyed it, and Fireball is one of the legitimately great red powers.
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    Patch/Daredevil are also really useful. Throw a Berserker rage- 2Kish damage, then radar sense for another 4-5K, and now you have a ton of big strike tiles and (almost) no opposing ones to just wail on people. I use them with Black Panther in the DDQ 3* cover all the time- those 2 plus a RotP will knock out the active characters in a second and Daredevil's stun can help make sure nobody gets touched.
  • slidecage
    slidecage Posts: 3,401 Chairperson of the Boards
    i can run a XXX Ares cage up to 600 to 700 with no problems..with doom pumped hes insane 900 for every pink
  • Malcrof
    Malcrof Posts: 5,971 Chairperson of the Boards
    slidecage wrote:
    i can run a XXX Ares cage up to 600 to 700 with no problems..with doom pumped hes insane 900 for every pink

    purple.

    But Doom, 3Thor + featured usually works really well.. unless the featured has a cheap green.
  • Buret0
    Buret0 Posts: 1,591
    For PvP, the big question is how well the AI can use the character on D.

    Thor has a good chunk of Health, deals damage with all of his abilities, he's his own battery, and the AI can't really screw up using him. 3/5/5.

    Scarlet Witch forces the other team to chase CD tiles to match blue, which is largely unhelpful on most teams. If the CD tile cannot be matched, there is a good chance that it produces a crit and greatly accelerates the purple of the other team. Matched with PX, this can cause a double whammy with Master Plan dealing nice damage and providing another 4 AP in the strongest color, which could be purple if you intentionally underlevel PX and max out SW. On D she's better 5/3/5 to make the best use of her purple... otherwise you just need to throw someone in with PX/SW who can use the purple... like Deadpool, in which case SW goes 3/5/5 and prays for whales.

    Deadpool has two excellent active covers and a fantastic passive. He can help keep weaker members alive (Loki, Hood, PX), forcing you to down him first while they do their thing that the other team doesn't want them to do. His Red is fast and his Purple hits hard. Even better when accelerated. I would try and keep his level low enough that PX + SW + DP will provide purple AP instead of Red when Master Plan activates. On D I like 5/5/3, otherwise any combination of 5/X/X is probably okay.

    Hood's AP steal isn't quite as good on D as it is on O, he's super squishy, he'll die before his yellow goes off on D, and he will never use Intimidation when you have a bunch of CD tiles to accelerate. All of that being said, if you can keep him alive with some fake healing, protect tiles, or damage prevention, he's enough of an annoyance that he might cause some skips or some defensive wins. I like him with Cage/Deadpool or Deadpool/KK. 5/5/3 all day.

    KK is great in PvP because she provides team healing and accelerates her own nuke. 5/X/5 on D, otherwise X/X/5.

    Cage is an excellent PvP player when you need to keep squishy team members alive. The squishy team member becomes the primary target, allowing you to build up AP on the other two to launch Righteous Uppercut and whatever other big damage you've got. His only downfall is his black power on D... the AI doesn't know enough to save up 12+ black before using it, and seems to be coded to never use the same ability twice in a turn. Also prone to matching his own black CD tile right after using it. Can work okay with any of PX/KK/Carnage where using cheap abilities is a benefit. 5/5/3 for D, otherwise 5/X/X.

    Mystique is interesting on D. She doesn't attract first to kill attention, but she can really do some damage and cause cascades to power her masterstroke. Annoying when paired with purple acceleration like PX/SW. Stuns, cascades, AP steal, and excellent damage if you leave the purple CD tile out. X/X/5.

    My Black Panther isn't well covered or leveled, but when paired with black acceleration in Fist, I see Rage of the Panther being scary enough to make BP the primary target. 5/3/5.

    Fist isn't well covered, but his purple is terrifying because it is impossible to deny, feeds black, and causes nasty cascades. His every round attack tile gets very scary when paired with any strike tile production, otherwise it is only effective when someone forgets to heal to full before the battle. 3/5/5 for D imo.

    Human Torch is good on D. His red accelerates itself a bit and his black attack tiles can cause issues. Best as 5/5/3 on D, 5/3/5 otherwise.

    I might come back and edit this later to add more.

    I'm not on board with the Hulk in PvP on D. I love seeing him on D because he's actually fairly easy to handle with AP steal and/or stuns. You can save him for last and he'll never do anything to you aside from match damage. I'll usually send in Luke Cage at 5/4/4 to block the match damage and stun him before I do any big hits along with Hood to jam his AP production. This combination essentially makes the Hulk a 10,000 health punching bag.
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    wymtime wrote:
    My 3* simulator team is IF, Cage, Cyclops. It is fast has 3 big nukes and IF kills any Hood/Loki, as well as accelerates black.

    My usual team in Shield is HT, Hood, Loki. I'll be sure to look for you and put your theory to the test. icon_twisted.gif
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    puppychow wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    My 3* simulator team is IF, Cage, Cyclops. It is fast has 3 big nukes and IF kills any Hood/Loki, as well as accelerates black.

    My usual team in Shield is HT, Hood, Loki. I'll be sure to look for you and put your theory to the test. icon_twisted.gif
    No team is good on defense icon_e_biggrin.gif Hood/Loki teams will completly deny AP but would HT have enough to take out all 3 without needing some health packs? Especially if you don't boost AP?
  • puppychow
    puppychow Posts: 1,453
    wymtime wrote:
    puppychow wrote:
    wymtime wrote:
    My 3* simulator team is IF, Cage, Cyclops. It is fast has 3 big nukes and IF kills any Hood/Loki, as well as accelerates black.

    My usual team in Shield is HT, Hood, Loki. I'll be sure to look for you and put your theory to the test. icon_twisted.gif
    No team is good on defense icon_e_biggrin.gif Hood/Loki teams will completly deny AP but would HT have enough to take out all 3 without needing some health packs? Especially if you don't boost AP?

    Excuses, excuses. icon_lol.gif It would be interesting to face your if/cage/cyclops defense, and see what the AI will use for black. Of course, that's assuming the AI will have any ap left. icon_twisted.gif

    As far as using my Hood/Loki/HT team goes, the combo has a real synergy among the 3 members. One key is to spec torch at 535 (5 green covers), because a lot of players believe 553 (5 black) is the ideal build; not so w/ Hood. Key number one is to accumulate 9 black aps ASAP. When your 535 Loki (5 green covers) triggers mischief, Hood's Intimidation will reduce countdown for those mischief tiles and allow you to drain ap on the SAME TURN. Key number two is to accumulate as much green AP as possible. Once Torch triggers his Flame Jet green count down tile, Hood's Intimidation will also cause the green tile to fire and create damage to the current target. 5 green covers for Torch allow you to do maximum damage of 2434. If you have enough black aps, you could trigger two or even three intimidations on the same turn and trigger Torch green immediately afterwards. 3 intimidations + 3 max flame jets = 10,431 damage during the same turn. Of course, torch can also fire his red fireball and hood can use his pistols to end the turn. Loki purple allows 3 matches during your turn and add more aps to your ever growing stash.

    The point is that I wouldn't rely solely on HT to cause damage. Loki drains ap to feed Hood's intimidation and twin pistols, plus HT's red and green attacks. And even if torch gets knocked out during the match, Hood is more than capable of finishing it.

    Speaking of health packs, the combo is surprisingly efficient in reducing the need for heals. Since most teams aren't able to trigger attacks due to a lack of ap, my team ends up taking mainly 3-match damage and little else. So I could go 3-4 matches before I use a single heal pack on Torch. Only if AI gets a lucky cascade to feed a nasty power would I need to use heals more frequently than that.
  • Eichen
    Eichen Posts: 176 Tile Toppler
    Cage, Fist, and Falcon. Everyone forgets Falcon but he is perfect with Cage and Fist. As you aquire yellow he strengthens your defense and offense. Since you never actuality use blue he swoops in and gobbles up attack tiles too.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    puppychow wrote:
    Speaking of health packs, the combo is surprisingly efficient in reducing the need for heals. Since most teams aren't able to trigger attacks due to a lack of ap, my team ends up taking mainly 3-match damage and little else. So I could go 3-4 matches before I use a single heal pack on Torch. Only if AI gets a lucky cascade to feed a nasty power would I need to use heals more frequently than that.

    Simple question, but given the plan of using Intimidation to fuel Flame Jet, why wouldn't you just use Fist? Loki's AP steal is sporadic at best and can't be nearly as effective as Fist at getting the black you need for this plan.
  • TxMoose
    TxMoose Posts: 4,319 Chairperson of the Boards
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    puppychow wrote:
    Speaking of health packs, the combo is surprisingly efficient in reducing the need for heals. Since most teams aren't able to trigger attacks due to a lack of ap, my team ends up taking mainly 3-match damage and little else. So I could go 3-4 matches before I use a single heal pack on Torch. Only if AI gets a lucky cascade to feed a nasty power would I need to use heals more frequently than that.

    Simple question, but given the plan of using Intimidation to fuel Flame Jet, why wouldn't you just use Fist? Loki's AP steal is sporadic at best and can't be nearly as effective as Fist at getting the black you need for this plan.
    I don't have a wide roster (my fist and torch are not yet finished), but while loki's ap steal is sporadic, added to hood's steal, together they deny a lot of ap with passives (requires no ap from you like blade/mystique/obw) when facing ai (can manipulate into loki's). much less effective with ai using that team. until recently my absolute best team I could field was thor/loki/hood and they could take a lot down. too high scaling can get them, but no scaling/boosteds in sim.
  • GrumpySmurf1002
    GrumpySmurf1002 Posts: 3,511 Chairperson of the Boards
    TxMoose wrote:
    I don't have a wide roster (my fist and torch are not yet finished), but while loki's ap steal is sporadic, added to hood's steal, together they deny a lot of ap with passives (requires no ap from you like blade/mystique/obw) when facing ai (can manipulate into loki's). much less effective with ai using that team. until recently my absolute best team I could field was thor/loki/hood and they could take a lot down. too high scaling can get them, but no scaling/boosteds in sim.

    I understand the Loki/Hood synergy, was running it a lot before I got Cage/Kamala/SheHulk up to speed. I don't understand Torch as the best damage dealer for Hood/Loki, or Loki as the best support for Torch/Hood. Doesn't seem to jive.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    TxMoose wrote:
    I don't have a wide roster (my fist and torch are not yet finished), but while loki's ap steal is sporadic, added to hood's steal, together they deny a lot of ap with passives (requires no ap from you like blade/mystique/obw) when facing ai (can manipulate into loki's). much less effective with ai using that team. until recently my absolute best team I could field was thor/loki/hood and they could take a lot down. too high scaling can get them, but no scaling/boosteds in sim.

    I understand the Loki/Hood synergy, was running it a lot before I got Cage/Kamala/SheHulk up to speed. I don't understand Torch as the best damage dealer for Hood/Loki, or Loki as the best support for Torch/Hood. Doesn't seem to jive.
    i get where hes coming from.loki/hood great combo they only need a red to complete the rainbow.they will be stealing greens so that ll take a lot of dmg.and i might be wrong but when torch uses red he takes those red as ap all the while hood/loki are fuelling him.pretty effective.
  • wymtime
    wymtime Posts: 3,758 Chairperson of the Boards
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    puppychow wrote:
    Speaking of health packs, the combo is surprisingly efficient in reducing the need for heals. Since most teams aren't able to trigger attacks due to a lack of ap, my team ends up taking mainly 3-match damage and little else. So I could go 3-4 matches before I use a single heal pack on Torch. Only if AI gets a lucky cascade to feed a nasty power would I need to use heals more frequently than that.

    Simple question, but given the plan of using Intimidation to fuel Flame Jet, why wouldn't you just use Fist? Loki's AP steal is sporadic at best and can't be nearly as effective as Fist at getting the black you need for this plan.
    Actually if you want the ultimate troll team to deny AP you should go Hood, Loki, She-Hulk. With Loki and hood feeding she hulks green there is no AP to generate. It takes a while to kill other people using she hulks red, but it can be an awsome defnsive team. Even if you beat it it usually takes significantly longer than it should.
  • jimstarooney
    jimstarooney Posts: 576 Critical Contributor
    wymtime wrote:
    GrumpySmurf1002 wrote:
    puppychow wrote:
    Speaking of health packs, the combo is surprisingly efficient in reducing the need for heals. Since most teams aren't able to trigger attacks due to a lack of ap, my team ends up taking mainly 3-match damage and little else. So I could go 3-4 matches before I use a single heal pack on Torch. Only if AI gets a lucky cascade to feed a nasty power would I need to use heals more frequently than that.

    Simple question, but given the plan of using Intimidation to fuel Flame Jet, why wouldn't you just use Fist? Loki's AP steal is sporadic at best and can't be nearly as effective as Fist at getting the black you need for this plan.
    Actually if you want the ultimate troll team to deny AP you should go Hood, Loki, She-Hulk. With Loki and hood feeding she hulks green there is no AP to generate. It takes a while to kill other people using she hulks red, but it can be an awsome defnsive team. Even if you beat it it usually takes significantly longer than it should.
    Im interested in what people think of she hulk since shes been changed.i see a lot more of her nowadays even at high end play.could be top tier.

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