"A Sense of Community".

GothicKratos

It's a really weird thing. We're a community, obviously. We're a forum, it's kinda in our genes. However, I've seen countless posts (that I agree with) stating that the atmosphere is different - whether it being quit posts or what have you - a very common complaint is that the forums feel more hallow than the better years.

Now, a little background on me, before playing MPQ, a while back, I was a GM for a game called Triple Triad Extreme. We were billed as the largest Triple Triad community on the internet (and we were for a very long time). One of the biggest hurdles of being a moderators is trying to maintain peace. Our game eventually tanked, for reasons unrelated to this post or this community, but for a long time, a lot of us vets stuck around and kept trying to 'fix it'. Ultimately, we didn't, of course. One thing that always rang through, and I remembering hearing it from "vets" in that community from the day I started until the day I quit - "things were better when /generally when they first started/ or /some other arbitrary time/" - and I've always had this theory that they're just a ton of bias in those statements. When I joined TTE, it was a blast! I joined a Guild super early, our guild leader was super nice, and we all helped each other grow within the confines of the game.

Eventually though, the game was getting boring for me and some other folks I grew up with, so to speak, and we started talking about what we wanted out of the game, or why we still stuck around. Some of us were compulsive collectors (so we stuck around for new decks), some of us were socialites (so we stuck around for the people), and some people just had nothing better to do. What we eventually came to agree upon was we wanted to do something, but we can't force content out, so we had to do something to make the community better.

We ended up with a lot of ideas, and they really helped in the short run. We ran tournaments of all different types and sorts, we had contests, etc etc etc, but ultimately our beloved game fell because they developer stopped developing (and Aaron, if you're reading this, you're still a scumbag!).

Here's what I'm getting at. There's a lot of stuff going on right now for MPQ. Some of it is good, some of it is not so good, and some of it is in the middle. Ultimately, we have little to no control over the content of the game, but we do have control over what we do as a community.

What would you like to see around the forums that we can all do? I personally miss those puzzles that used to get posted. I can't remember who it was, but they're post a board and give a scenario and we'd have to figure it out. That was really cool and really engaging. Another thing I thought was really amusing was that meme contest that the developers held. That was a lot of good natured fun. They developers took it all in stride, and a few even contributed if I am remembering correctly.

I'm going to start poking some heads, once the con is over, to see if I can get permission to do some "official" contests and things of that nature, and hopefully be able to give out some shiny prizes along the way.

The other 'concern' is a lot of people are fleeing the forums to places like Facebook Groups or Line Groups. It's borderline easier to use those apps than it is to visit a forum and it's easy to segregate yourself to like-minded people. What can we all do to make it so it's "worth" visiting the forums more often? What can we do to make it more "worth" for users like NorthernPolarity or Nonce to write those amazing write-ups they used to write?

Tredo

Honestly, more communication from the devs would be the biggest draw. As it is, they drop some cryptic or incomplete information in a news post, then flee. The main reason I come here is to check for new information on characters, game modes (ha!), or updates. Plus, their style of dropping a bomb and running generates a ton of anxiety and hostility.

DaveR4470

Wait.... Triple Triad? As in the mini-game from FFVIII?

There were separate games for that??????

I LOVED THAT GAME.

Unknown

Yes Gothik, Yes!!!

Agree with everything - especially rekindling peoples creativity.
Official in-game rewards for significant forum posts would go leagues towards that I agree.
The vibe on Facebook & Line are quite different to the forum & we here still trump them in terms of useful information about the game.

Yes, significant, influential contributors have lessened their posting frequency, but their work lives on.
Hopefully to inspire the next wave of super-brains to contemplate, calculate, and speculate for us.

In terms of a sense of community - I've read enough, to have my favourite contributers/members.
Be it for useful information, quick, witty quips or down-right dumb-****, bonkers theories.
I like & follow all these characters for different reasons & I would really like one day for us all to meet in a social setting so that I could meet, listen & laugh to you guys in person. Respect to all you forumites.

Forum...

....I like you!!!

(I would like to make a list of my favourite guys/gals - but it's almost everyone! )

Kiamodo

Your biggest fans and most loyal are the ones you start with. They have the most knowledge and history with the game. Everyone who tried to make this a fun place is leaving. Not just here but on line to. Devs answer only the stuff they want to answer and ignore big issues. I'd site examples but everyone knows what they are. I find myself checking the forums less and less cause there just isn't anything here for me. How about they make and effort? Sense of community starts with the people who organize and lead it. GK I think you are making an honest genuine effort to make this forum better. Thank you.

Pylgrim

Oh man, Triple Triad Extreme! I remember that one. I loved the game but in small chunks of gaming here and there so I never became much involved with the community, but good job helping with it!

I agree that many times when players are feeling natural burn out, you hear them going "oh back in those days the game was great, now they have ruined it" when many times is demonstrably wrong. It is just harder to admit that you just fell out of love with something (or someone!) that once you loved, so it's easier to blame the object of love for the falling.

Thanks for your continued efforts in keeping the peace, something that I may fail at myself due to my confrontational style and bombastic statements. I know that the people who have something to complain about (rightfully in some case, not so in others) like to think of peacekeepers as insufferably sycophant, goody-two-shoes that want to invalidate their grief, when the only thing they pursue is a welcoming environment that is open for discourse without dismissing warranted complains or suggestions for improvements. Keep the good work!

I do have to agree with many that communication on the devs side has been scarce as of late, at least in comparison to the beginning of the year and I don't doubt the levels of toxicity that the forums reached a couple months ago plays a role. Devs are people too and no one likes name-calling, constant mockery of one's character, or suspicion at one's motivations at every single little step. It's common to think "pfft they are game developers, they should just develop a thick skin" but that's bully thinking, placing the burden of continued communication on the victim, rather than stopping the attackers.

Stax the Foyer

Agreed with the posts regarding developer communication, but what would really help would be longer developer conversations. You can see from the announcement threads that some of the best posts are buried deep within the threads, once someone starts having a back-and-forth with a dev to really unpack an announcement or a new change. Developer posts are feeding frenzies, though, and it's hard to pick out the good questions to answer and engage in a detailed back-and-forth when every reply is immediately dissected by the other forumites.

What would be nice would be for, after an announcement is made, there to be an opportunity for one or a couple of the longtime forum posters to engage the developers in a conversation about that topic. Rotate it around, and you could pick people who have contributed to the community in ways related to that announcement or change so that you know they'll be conversant on the topic.

It would probably be best to do it via email or PM, and then post the transcript. I think we'd all benefit if some of the well-known posters had the opportunity to pick the dev's brains a little bit, and if you do it off the forums and post the transcript later, it would make it more comfortable and convenient for the developers, and give them the opportunity to keep it focused and have more control over the range of questions that are asked.

Colognoisseur

GK it is a noble sentiment but I have to agree with so many others whne I re-iterate it has to start from the top.

The "good old days" of this forum were when Ice IX was posting if not daily a few times a week and he was giving out hints about future directions, clarifying current decisions, and trying to help with the ramifications of things which had happened in the past.

To see that red name made a huge difference. Also if you go look back at a lot of Ics IX's early posts when he didn't know the answer he would go and try and find out and report back.

We didn't realize how good we had it until he took a long vacation and the forum dried up of interaction. Those few weeks he was gone started to see much of the same kind of negativity building up.

Once he returned it was pretty clear he was not going to be the presence he had been. Hi-Fi was hired and he has done what the devs will allow him to do but it is not enough.

There was a decision made back around the Anniversary that developer communication with the forum was going to be sporadic. Since that time they act more like ninjas who drop a smoke bomb and disappear before you can catch a hold of them.

It has been asked of them time and time and time again to be more communicative. The message can not possibly have been lost. Which means they just don't want to. I am not going to speculate on the reason but I can observe the behavior and comment on it. This development team does not want to really hear from the players. This is confirmed by action after action by them.

You know that old saying action speak louder than words? The devs actions have added up to thousands more words than they have actually uttered.

If they would let someone be an actual presence on these forums in the way Ice IX used to be I think the levels of frustration would go down significantly. But I've made this argument previously and clearly Will and the rest of the devs disagree.

Unknown

Stax the Foyer wrote:

What would be nice would be for, after an announcement is made, there to be an opportunity for one or a couple of the longtime forum posters to engage the developers in a conversation about that topic. Rotate it around, and you could pick people who have contributed to the community in ways related to that announcement or change so that you know they'll be conversant on the topic.

It would probably be best to do it via email or PM, and then post the transcript. I think we'd all benefit if some of the well-known posters had the opportunity to pick the dev's brains a little bit, and if you do it off the forums and post the transcript later, it would make it more comfortable and convenient for the developers, and give them the opportunity to keep it focused and have more control over the range of questions that are asked.

This.

Every time a change is announced, half of the trolls on the internet come out and scream foul. In the last patch where they fixed the ability for people to lose their way to 1k. That's right LOSE, people actually got mad about it... Your mad because you can't just loss hop all the way to 1k???

The majority of the community are insightful intelligent people, but they are drowned out by the trolls who scream louder.

I am not a vet. I am a less than a year player and I enjoy the game for the most part. I shouldn't be the one asking the questions of the devs, but neither should the people who just want to yell that XYZ was changed and they think its stupid.

GothicKratos

Many thanks to everyone that has posted so far, especially Pylgrim, Stax, and Colog for typing out such thought out statements. You give me some faith that we can claw back some of our 'glory days'.

jackstar0

Anecdote time:

The other game that occupies a fair amount of my time is Heroclix. The message board HCRealms was started to be the unofficial home of the community and it continues to grow to this day. BUT there was a time when the game itself went under. A great set had been released, but we were told it was going to be the last one. Lots of blame thrown around at the people making it, but beyond that a bunch of various community-started projects popped up.

Then, lastly, a group of people who wanted to take control of the game and get it back into production hit up that community, lots of folks responded, and now it's been going strong for years since.

I mention this instance of community and producer unity because it is possible for such action to yield great results.

Now, you go to those boards today and there's the same amount of complaining about nerfs, rules changes, etc. as anywhere else, but what some of us remember is that it took the community to prove that it was a viable game with a large enough audience to support it.

I've only been around on these boards for only a little while, but I see the same level of passion for the game in the players here. I hope that the devs realize there are ways to harness that energy for mutual benefit.

saintsomebody

Speaking as a 2* transitioner, sometimes I feel a sense of hostility towards my 'class' of players.

I get it. Vets have more money and time invested. I've invested a fair bit of both myself.

I just want a cool place for information and discussion on my tablet gaming addiction. And anything I can do to help with restoring the vibe I saw when I first came here in March. Someplace anyone at any level can come to for MPQ related tips, news and humor.

lukewin

GothicKratos wrote:

...The other 'concern' is a lot of people are fleeing the forums to places like Facebook Groups or Line Groups. It's borderline easier to use those apps than it is to visit a forum and it's easy to segregate yourself to like-minded people...

Not just borderline easier, it's a lot easier. I'm speaking of LINE groups. Also, wouldn't you want to talk to like-minded people and avoid people that you want to avoid? That's why I'm on the forums a lot less often. I get to avoid pages of people going back and forth, about content I could care less about. I get to avoid certain users. I get to talk about the game I like to play with like-minded people, have a positive experience, and get to discuss changes in a civil manner. So when **** changes come out, they seem less so because you're going thru them with a group of like-minded people.

GothicKratos wrote:

What can we all do to make it so it's "worth" visiting the forums more often?

Have content that's "worth" coming to the forums for, that you can't get elsewhere. Mainly, interaction from the devs. The changes are out of our hands, but we'd probably be more ok with them if we understood why they were being made. We don't have to agree with why they're being made, but it would be nice to be informed of why they were made.

It's funny that the Gauntlet is being ran right now, because when the 10 pk error occurred on the Gauntlet in February, my thread was created with the purpose of "What I am hoping to accomplish is for D3 to improve their communication, with the forum in particular, with clear and upfront communication." We've seen glimmers of hope every now and then, but nothing that has really come close.

When I do post stuff, or update my old informative threads, the one's in my sig, it's because that's info I'd like to know, and if I'd like to know it, I think others might as well.

Unknown

GothicKratos wrote:

The other 'concern' is a lot of people are fleeing the forums to places like Facebook Groups or Line Groups. It's borderline easier to use those apps than it is to visit a forum and it's easy to segregate yourself to like-minded people. What can we all do to make it so it's "worth" visiting the forums more often? What can we do to make it more "worth" for users like NorthernPolarity or Nonce to write those amazing write-ups they used to write?

I think a lot of people choose to move to Line/FB/Private Alliance Forums/etc because of the frustration of the behavior here on the forums. It is easier to pluck a conversation piece from the forum, take it back to your Allaince's chatroom and talk it over without the snipes, trolls, and nasty fights and bickering that happen here are a direct result of: (read the next response to the quote below)

Tredo wrote:

Honestly, more communication from the devs would be the biggest draw. As it is, they drop some cryptic or incomplete information in a news post, then flee. ~snip~
Plus, their style of dropping a bomb and running generates a ton of anxiety and hostility.

This is one of the biggest problems and one of the loudest complaints that I see on the forum on a regular basis. And I am one of those that are yelling about it too.

They do monitor and comment in the Bugs Forum frequently. So I know that they are at the very least reading those. But they hide from the General Forum like the plague (with exception to IceIX, he almost always stops in the General Forum and touches on threads, which is greatly appreciated.)

But we really do need more interaction from/with the Devs. And honestly, the monthly Q&A just doesn't count, mostly because I (and many others here) don't feel those are worthwhile. The Devs cherry pick the easy questions and when they do pick questions that we really want answered; we get muddled, cryptic, & unhelpful answers that create more questions than the original question that was intended to be answered.

They ninja post upcoming changes way too often in a way that leaves WAY too much to the imagination, instead of fully explaining themselves, the thought process behind the change, the way they expect the game to change and adapt in the wake of such game change.

We still don't have an idea of their vision for the future of the game. And that makes me wonder if they do have a vision? Do they have a goal? (Other than the business goal of making money. Please no snipes about cash grabs, etc. THEY ARE A BUSINESS, THEY ARE ENTITLED TO PROFITS. But I want to know their PERSONAL goals for the game itself.)

So I can fully understand the frustration of the community by their lack of speaking with us.

Edit: spell checking and double negatives galore. Had to fix them. I was typing to fast.

Pylgrim

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Agreed with the posts regarding developer communication, but what would really help would be longer developer conversations. You can see from the announcement threads that some of the best posts are buried deep within the threads, once someone starts having a back-and-forth with a dev to really unpack an announcement or a new change. Developer posts are feeding frenzies, though, and it's hard to pick out the good questions to answer and engage in a detailed back-and-forth when every reply is immediately dissected by the other forumites.

What would be nice would be for, after an announcement is made, there to be an opportunity for one or a couple of the longtime forum posters to engage the developers in a conversation about that topic. Rotate it around, and you could pick people who have contributed to the community in ways related to that announcement or change so that you know they'll be conversant on the topic.

It would probably be best to do it via email or PM, and then post the transcript. I think we'd all benefit if some of the well-known posters had the opportunity to pick the dev's brains a little bit, and if you do it off the forums and post the transcript later, it would make it more comfortable and convenient for the developers, and give them the opportunity to keep it focused and have more control over the range of questions that are asked.

Maybe a Reddit AMA? Its mechanics guarantee that questions valued by the community and their answers float to the top while irrelevant content sinks away.

Unknown

The devs would need to communicate consistently, be honest with us, and show they care about our difficulties (has anyone mentioned scaling ?).

I've been on this forum for more than a year, and it's always been one step forward, two steps backwards.

The devs implemented good and bad changes that brought a lot of instability.

Throughout the months, the devs have built a different game than the one we were playing back in 2014.

We've had hopes, we've been disapointed (too) many times. Many have given up.

The biggest names on this forum have gone (HailMary, TU1,...). Those were the strongest defenders of the devs when people like me were trolling. Until they gave up too.

The Freemium business model is probably the worst thing I have ever tried in my life gamewise, and I promised myself "never again" after MPQ.

If the devs keep on ignoring that a game is not all about data and statistics (and money), they will kill the game, no matter what.

Unknown

We need communication from devs especially with Ultron for 4* being like it was:

character release schedules(No you don't have to tell us WHO just WHEN)

event schedules(SUPER IMPORTANT DUE TO ULTRON)

making a plan for us to cover characters(Deadpool daily was a start)

event information FROM THE DEVS so we can prepare accordingly

release all characters as "Unknown" 1-2 weeks prior so we can prevent Iron Fist 1.0s from releasing(as we did with Iron Fist)

Don't use RNG as a cover-rewarding mechanism

Plan out what covers you're giving out so you can leave a "breadcrumb trail" for players to grasp at instead of giving them random covers that rot at level 40.

Increase ISO payout

don't do random characters for essentials, think within the SEASON.

Unknown

There's something that needs to be talked about. Yes, this is a community. But I have no idea how big it is. What percentage of the people playing ever get here? Because it's one thing if we're considered the hardcore fans for whom the game is really meant, and it's a completely different thing if we're considered "that handful of guys that complain all the time and that we can sometimes use to poll and outsource ideas".

Yes, there's been turmoil recently. The bulk of it comes, I feel, from the "new direction" the game took a little while ago. When I first got into this, new characters were exciting. They were rare and people wrote guides about how to use them. They had crazy abilities we'd never seen before. Now we get a new character every other day, and some abilities are like Bullseye's purple, a slight variation on an ability that elektra, daredevil, (now) moonstone and to a certain extent loki all have. It feels tired. It feels like there aren't enough people designing these characters, and making decisions, and as a result whenever something happens, like lets say the recent pvp exploit, the solutions don't feel like they were thought out and deliberated on, they feel like they were made by overworked people whose passion has moved on from this game.

There is a trend going on here that's pretty obvious to vets. People who are excited and that defend the company are all new. That doesn't look good. That can't feel good.
It looks like there's people just getting into the back of the ship and looking at how pretty and cool it is, but the people who found their accommodations and are looking out the window can see a great big iceberg coming.

You want this to work? You want vets and newbies in harmony all hopeful and cheering for the company? You want the entire group to go "well they tried" instead of "what the hell" when something goes wrong?

Get the people who make the game in here. Don't connect us to them once a month with cherry picked questions that they answer then leave. That's doesn't feel like attention from our idols. That feels like a pep talk from politicians. Let us know who makes what. Let us know how they're feeling, what they have a hard time with, what ideas they have for the future.

We're not aholes. We're jaded. We stay for the people, but we can all see the iceberg coming, and the captain doesn't talk to us.
We've looked at each other and said "why are we playing, nobody is listening". Then we shrugged and played anyway.

El Satanno

I'll just add another voice to the growing mass of individuals who really just want more communication from the red names. Maybe I'm looking at things through rose-colored glasses, but it seems to me that when they do show up, the conversations actually aren't that bitter. I feel that left to our own devices we tend to amplify one another's frustrations, but in the presence of an actual authority on the game the mood generally elevates and the discussion can be productive. Stax the Foyer's idea about a private, but public ex post facto, discussion with selected forum member(s) is absolutely brilliant.

You've got to be passionate about the game to even show up here. For many, I'm sure, it wouldn't take much to generate good mojo. I'd be willing to bet good money that engaging these passionate individuals on a more regular basis would pay out handsome dividends. I mean that literally as well as figuratively. Case in point: I've been playing for about a year and a half now and toying with the idea of sinking money into it for most of that time. (Actual money? Into a phone game?! Preposterous!) Speaking personally, if I could come here and hear directly from the dev team or their surrogates more than once a month, I would be far more likely to buy in.

*While I was writing this up, ArkPrime ninja'd his way in front of me. Well said, sir. Well said.

aesthetocyst

Yikes. I am in complete agreement with Arkprime (well said, sir).

Does the developer have a full-time community relations / communications professional? It would be well worth the investment.

I assume that the devs never hear from the vast majority of the playerbase. Almost certainly, the majority of player are casual and fleeting.

If this is at all the case, it's too easy and cheap for the devs to brush off who they do hear from by putting words into the mouths of that silent majority. Like, the majority of the players aren't saying that. Of course not; the majority aren't saying anything! You don't hear from them!

Of course the devs can't address or satisfy every concern here. Few are worthy and a lot are contradictory. Insulating themselves from the vocal part of the player base is, however, not the way to go. It may lighten their load in the short-term, make it easier to get through the day, and responding to repetitive concerns no doubt gets old, but not doing so is poor long-term strategy. They need to hear from folks outside the bubble, and to engage their fans and hold them close. Build long-term (professional) relationships. It's like having free brainstorming labor.

Look, the devs launched alliances as a necessary step in building community and boosting engagement / retention. A lot of players grind far longer than they would otherwise out of a sense of commitment to their alliance. Now, imagine if the devs had an alliance with the players? How it would further engage players to have not only a sense of commitment to their alliance, but to the game itself and its future? At least the impression of being actively involved in its ongoing development?

That may have existed in the beginning when all was new and the devs were navigating go-live, but now it is gone. Gone, gone, GONE.

Right now, alliances feel like dwindling holdouts in drifting ships. Probably ought to punch out, but continuing to sink costs because they don't want to be quitters ... and maybe holding out a bit of hope.

Unknown

Stax the Foyer wrote:

Agreed with the posts regarding developer communication, but what would really help would be longer developer conversations. You can see from the announcement threads that some of the best posts are buried deep within the threads, once someone starts having a back-and-forth with a dev to really unpack an announcement or a new change. Developer posts are feeding frenzies, though, and it's hard to pick out the good questions to answer and engage in a detailed back-and-forth when every reply is immediately dissected by the other forumites.

What would be nice would be for, after an announcement is made, there to be an opportunity for one or a couple of the longtime forum posters to engage the developers in a conversation about that topic. Rotate it around, and you could pick people who have contributed to the community in ways related to that announcement or change so that you know they'll be conversant on the topic.

It would probably be best to do it via email or PM, and then post the transcript. I think we'd all benefit if some of the well-known posters had the opportunity to pick the dev's brains a little bit, and if you do it off the forums and post the transcript later, it would make it more comfortable and convenient for the developers, and give them the opportunity to keep it focused and have more control over the range of questions that are asked.

Maybe a talk using some kind of commonly used app?