Kabir - Why did you (Unintentionally?) mislead us?

reckless442

Stax the Foyer wrote:

I don't think that Kabir was intentionally misleading with that particular statement.

However, I saw how it could be taken and specifically asked whether or not the health levels and number of rounds would stay the same. Enough people were following up on that question that I'm comfortable saying that their non-answer was deliberate. A simple "No" would have given people enough information that they could have planned differently.

We took our foot off the gas early to try to get as many people progression awards during the dun (follow-up compensation is fine, but slow), but realistically we're probably still going to clear Round 7 and probably wouldn't have cleared Round 8 anyway, so we're not directly affected. A lot of other alliances were, though.

The health level surprise didn't have to be the decidedly non-punch item in the punch bowl that it turned out to be.

When do you expect to finish Round 7?

Stax the Foyer

reckless442 wrote:

Stax the Foyer wrote:

I don't think that Kabir was intentionally misleading with that particular statement.

However, I saw how it could be taken and specifically asked whether or not the health levels and number of rounds would stay the same. Enough people were following up on that question that I'm comfortable saying that their non-answer was deliberate. A simple "No" would have given people enough information that they could have planned differently.

We took our foot off the gas early to try to get as many people progression awards during the dun (follow-up compensation is fine, but slow), but realistically we're probably still going to clear Round 7 and probably wouldn't have cleared Round 8 anyway, so we're not directly affected. A lot of other alliances were, though.

The health level surprise didn't have to be the decidedly non-punch item in the punch bowl that it turned out to be.

When do you expect to finish Round 7?

Probably late Saturday. We've got about 75% of the alliance clearing regularly.

turul

I found another thing the devs have lied to us!!!!!!444

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28882

Malcrof

turul wrote:

I found another thing the devs have lied to us!!!!!!444

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28882

Not even close, the 2nd post is spot on.

GothicKratos

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

Emphasis mine.

Maybe, just maybe, you're trying to call a blue fence red.

I dunno though, but when I read this statement, I see a statement about one specific issue, and nothing about Ultron's Health Pool, nor anything else.

Maybe I'm blind, but maybe you're trying to draw water from an avocado.

Unknown

GothicKratos wrote:

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

Emphasis mine.

Maybe, just maybe, you're trying to call a blue fence red.

I dunno though, but when I read this statement, I see a statement about one specific issue, and nothing about Ultron's Health Pool, nor anything else.

Maybe I'm blind, but maybe you're trying to draw water from an avocado.

Well, they did "fix" the issue by scaling Ultron's Health points by a ridiculous amount....

Everyone should be able to clear the 1 million mark if they play religiously.

That being said, any kind of indication of Ultron's increased health points would of been extremely helpful, especially with the servers crashing and the Ultron nodes not opening due to a bug.

GothicKratos

That's fine - some foreshadowing to the event for a 4* reward was going to be harder than the ludicrously easy first run of the event for a 3* would have been great...

...however, nobody was lied to. Nobody was mislead.

[EDIT]: As snide as my initial response here was, I do think there is a tiny, small margin of validity in the complaint of his health changing. I just feel like it's being blow way out of proportion.

Unknown

GothicKratos wrote:

Nobody was mislead.

He said that there would be no fix* in time for round 2. This implies that round 2 would need a fix*, which it doesn't.

*to the issue of lvl8 ultron disappearing after beeing downed

/edit: forget what I said above. You're right. Just found this:

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

We believe we've identified the bottlenecks from the first run, and we'll have fixes in place before Run 2 starts. This doesn't mean issues won't arise, but it won't be the same issues.

Unknown

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

We believe we've identified the bottlenecks from the first run, and we'll have fixes in place before Run 2 starts. This doesn't mean issues won't arise, but it won't be the same issues.

The above is a post addressing server problems, not the point values.

I'm with the group that found Kabir's post misleading. He could have conveyed to us that, "Falling short of progression will not be an issue for Run 2, because Ultron in Run 2 has more health overall." But he didn't say that.

Instead, Kabir said "we won't have a fix in time for Run 2" which implies that falling short of progression is a problem that also exists in Run 2. Such a problem actually doesn't exist in Run 2 because you simply can't beat Ultron without all 20 members getting points way over max progression.

Scoregasms

I also got a PM from a red prior to the event stating that not enough points for top progression rewards are expected to happen in round 2.

Hi,

Sorry to be vague, but the devs should have an announcement regarding the Event and rewards tomorrow or shortly thereafter. I believe what you are referring to with progression rewards is going to occur again in round 2, if that helps at all.

Unfortunately, we took this as not enough points to go around again and planned accordingly, so yeah, wasn't something we were expecting and I asked specifically about.

Edit: I don't want this used as fuel for flames of rage, lol, obviously this person is not a dev and probably did not know all the details of round 2. Just shows information even inside the walls was probably hard to come by or decisions were made just prior to the start.

fmftint

Scoregasms wrote:

I also got a PM from a red prior to the event stating that not enough points for top progression rewards are expected to happen in round 2.

Hi,

Sorry to be vague, but the devs should have an announcement regarding the Event and rewards tomorrow or shortly thereafter. I believe what you are referring to with progression rewards is going to occur again in round 2, if that helps at all.

Unfortunately, we took this as not enough points to go around again and planned accordingly, so yeah, wasn't something we were expecting and I asked specifically about.

Mic dropped

wymtime

The question is did they bump up the points so we could get more people to hit the progression, or did they have the health bump planned already for the 4* character.

I want to believe it was because of the 4* character, and if it was part of the fix would have been announced as a fix.

Either way Ultron has way too much health for alliances to get through all 4 rounds. At this point in time they should say any alliance who gets to round 8 will get the last Hulk buster, and anyone in round 7 gets the 2nd hulkbuster. It is close to the same points as before. My alliance has multiple people over a million points, and we just started round 7. We were at the end of round 7 with this many people at a million points. I like the Ultron event, but man I want it over and don't want to be fighting round 7-8 uber Ultron and uber buffed Goons for 2 and 1/2 days for 1 cover. Round 8 will be brutal and I see some players having to hit 2 million points for there alliance to beat all 8 rounds if it even happens

Nooneelsesname

GothicKratos wrote:

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

Emphasis mine.

Maybe, just maybe, you're trying to call a blue fence red.

I dunno though, but when I read this statement, I see a statement about one specific issue, and nothing about Ultron's Health Pool, nor anything else.

Maybe I'm blind, but maybe you're trying to draw water from an avocado.

I'm going to go with you're blind. And condescending.

Because this is an equally valid reading.

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

Emphasis mine.

So we take a chance and build our alliances differently, fine, that's on us.

But then we start the event, see the top progression is in the same place, have a statement from a dev that they didn't intend for there to be (I'm assuming he means) intra-alliance combat but that it won't be fixed in time for run 2.

So we hold up and make sure that everyone gets as many tokens as they can from the first few rounds so they won't get shut out. And then when his health starts scaling up drastically with no warning, we have no chance to catch up and finish the event.

When we explicitly asked the devs if this would be an issue in the 2nd run. They didn't have to give us numbers, they could have said your characters notice that Ultron is rebuilding himself and he seems to be even stronger than before.

We did what we were supposed to do, build the strongest team we could for Run 1, and it was the exact wrong strategy.

So since we care about our fellow alliance members, in an event that's supposed to promote alliance teamwork, we build our alliances differently and play differently for Run 2 after asking the people we pay money to if there's any reason not to do this.

One ambiguous statement and silence. And it's the exact wrong strategy.

Even if that fence is blue the paint hasn't dried, it will fall down in the first strong wind and it'll give you splinters if you touch it.

Unknown

Nooneelsesname wrote:

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

There's no ambiguity in that comment, the whole post is obviously about Ultron closing after round 8. I have a lot of problems with the devs and their recent actions, but there's nothing in this. The health of the second phase is to high imo, but loading someone else's post with your own meaning to make a point isn't useful.

Unknown

I agree there's a little bit of validity in the OP. --edit Stax looked at what he said, and then asked "Ok, so Ultron will still be gone after round 8, but will Ultron's health be any higher for the 4* Hulkbuster?" which devs may not have seen, and may not have answered anyways. A lot of us guessed at this hp increase but just decided to roll with what happens, figuring we couldn't change it either way. There's still the possibility in quite competitive alliances that some members will get locked out of the final progression reward, though it's probably unlikely enough such that no one one will complain for that particular issue this round.

--edit corrected

DrStrange-616

MarCr wrote:

Nooneelsesname wrote:

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

There's no ambiguity in that comment, the whole post is obviously about Ultron closing after round 8. I have a lot of problems with the devs and their recent actions, but there's nothing in this. The health of the second phase is to high imo, but loading someone else's post with your own meaning to make a point isn't useful.

It's misleading because the "issue" of Ultron closing in the second go was never an issue and didn't need to be resolved for R2 because of his extensive health. They knew that he would have more than ample health, so the idea of him closing and people not being able to grind is a complete non-issue for R2. They knew that when they made this post. There was no fix necessary for R2.

Why oh why didn't they just say, "We didn't mean for this to happen and will look into it for future events, but don't worry, there's more than enough health to around in round 2"? And why didn't they comment or follow-up when the concerns were voiced?

puppychow

Guys, let's stay civil and not attack each other. I think we are all in agreement regarding our disappointment over how D3 communicated information regarding the 2 ultron events, and the publisher's attempt to deal with various snaffus. At this point, we can't expect anything to change regarding this event. So good luck all!

Spoit

daibar wrote:

I agree there's a little bit of validity in the OP. No one looked at what he said, and then asked "Ok, so Ultron will still be gone after round 8, but will Ultron's health be any higher for the 4* Hulkbuster?" which devs may or may not have answered anyways. A lot of us guessed at this hp increase but just decided to roll with what happens, figuring we couldn't change it either way, so there wasn't any point in asking. There's still the possibility in quite competitive alliances that some members will get locked out of the final progression reward, though it's probably unlikely enough such that no one one will complain for that particular issue this round.

Except why wouldn't he go and say that the problem would be (somewhat) mitigated by the extra health? That's actually a positive statement, that people would have liked hearing

GothicKratos

Spoit wrote:

daibar wrote:

I agree there's a little bit of validity in the OP. No one looked at what he said, and then asked "Ok, so Ultron will still be gone after round 8, but will Ultron's health be any higher for the 4* Hulkbuster?" which devs may or may not have answered anyways. A lot of us guessed at this hp increase but just decided to roll with what happens, figuring we couldn't change it either way, so there wasn't any point in asking. There's still the possibility in quite competitive alliances that some members will get locked out of the final progression reward, though it's probably unlikely enough such that no one one will complain for that particular issue this round.

Except why wouldn't he go and say that the problem would be (somewhat) mitigated by the extra health? That's actually a positive statement, that people would have liked hearing

Because that's not a fix really (especially if they didn't change anything to begin with and that's how it was just supposed to be), it does help alleviate the problem at the top. If this was how they would have chose to fix it, it would have been a stopgap that helped the rich get richer, so to speak.

GothicKratos

Nooneelsesname wrote:

Because this is an equally valid reading.

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

Emphasis mine.

Sorry, but to me, even with that emphasis, it's pretty obvious that "this issue" of "inter-Alliance combat" was being cause by overarching problem of "issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done", and that was what they were addressing. That's kind of how paragraphs work - the first sentence generally sets the pace and subject of the rest of the paragraph. I think I hear an avocado calling your name!

Now, I think I said this in this thread, but yeah, there is a tiny, miniscule bit of validity because maybe they "should have" told us that the event was going to be harder (read: have more health), but do I think they're in some way mandated to? No, I don;t think so at all - it woulda been nice to know though.