Kabir - Why did you (Unintentionally?) mislead us?

LXSandman

I want to say at the start here that I have been a huge supporter of the dev's for this game. I generally support most of the changes they make and think that alot of the posts on the forums are unrealistic - In short I've been a homer. But I guess I have reached my breaking point, to wit:

Demiurge_Kabir wrote:

Hey all,
Just weighing in on the issue Alliances are experiencing where the main Avengers vs Ultron sub-chapter is closed after Round 8 is done. We initially designed it this way because when you reach the point target in Round 8, you’ve beaten Ultron. This wasn’t intended to promote inter-Alliance combat, but it has and that’s not fun. Thanks for the feedback about this. We’re looking at fixing this issue in the future, but won’t have a fix in time for Run 2.

I think this comment is at best disingenuous or at worst an outright lie. I would love to have a conversation with Karbir and have him explain to us how his statement works in relation to Ultron's health in Round 2. He knew at the time he wrote this that Ultron would have so much health that this wouldn't be an issue. Instead of telling us this he told us that it couldn't get fixed in time.

I know that others have mentioned this, but they have done it on the math threads. I wanted this to be right up front. I'm not quiting... but I'm pissed.

Kabir - Why did you lie to us all?

Unknown

I think it is fair to say that what they put up to the public language wise is pretty damn awful. Has been the case for months. Not sure if it is lying rather than a complete inability to realise the way they word things comes across terribly to the consumer and makes them feel like the devs are taking the piss.

I have no idea if this guy was lying though. Could have just been handed something to post, could have just written it in 30 seconds and not actually engaged brain, who knows. They have all done it though. I'm not expecting them to be PR guru's but how hard would it be to have someone in the know proof-read something and go "you know what guys? This might come across in a negative manner, how about we re-word it?".

Azoic

I agree. I am in a top alliance, and it is likely that we won't be able to down round 8. And then factor in EotS as well? You apologized for running Ultron 1 and overlapping it with the last pve event...and then you start EotS up while Ultron is going on? And with this much of a health increase?

You can't walk out of the Ultron fight without using healthpacks (minus true healers) since he does massive match dmg (just took 4500 cascade), so it really requires a lot of resources to do a clear.

Bowgentle

He's not lying. I'm sure Ultron will shut down again once round 8 is done.

Of course, we won't be able to finish round 8 this time, but he didn't talk about that lol.

Unknown

Bowgentle wrote:

He's not lying. I'm sure Ultron will shut down again once round 8 is done.

Of course, we won't be able to finish round 8 this time, but he didn't talk about that lol.

Agreed that he didn't lie. He just left out information. Either way...It's messed up for sure. Another example of how they do not respect us.

Best of luck to all the crews that are gonna grind this thing out.

easy...marc

Unknown

I don't actually think they lied to us. We are competing for a 4* not a 3*. They won't go ahead and give three covers of hulkbuster to 20 members of an alliance and then run a PVE that rewards the same character. That's a potential 7-8 covers of a 4* given in a week which is unheard of when it comes to D3. I'm also seeing a lot of people pull hulkbuster from their token pulls and that would mean people might actually have 9-10 covers of a 4* within a week of its release without D3 making any money from them. Me and my alliance mates we are still at round 6 and understand that it might be very hard to finish this event, but farm it for the tokens and the iso and the minimal HP if you want. Do the progression so that you get Scarlet Witch and start covering her. It's a "pick your battles" situation right now and even with the increase of 4* availability through events we are sitting here and complaining about them.

LXSandman

Koko81 wrote:

I don't actually think they lied to us. We are competing for a 4* not a 3*. They won't go ahead and give three covers of hulkbuster to 20 members of an alliance and then run a PVE that rewards the same character. That's a potential 7-8 covers of a 4* given in a week which is unheard of when it comes to D3. I'm also seeing a lot of people pull hulkbuster from their token pulls and that would mean people might actually have 9-10 covers of a 4* within a week of its release without D3 making any money from them. Me and my alliance mates we are still at round 6 and understand that it might be very hard to finish this event, but farm it for the tokens and the iso and the minimal HP if you want. Do the progression so that you get Scarlet Witch and start covering her. It's a "pick your battles" situation right now and even with the increase of 4* availability through events we are sitting here and complaining about them.

While all of this is true and I agree with you for the most part. The issue here is not that "we should have just assumed it would be harder" It is that a dev actually came here and told us that the issue with having not enough health for a 20 member alliance to all get the progression rewards would not be "fixed" for this event. What does that tell us? It says that he won't have more then 20 million total health - And that is not true. That's the Issue.

turul

The thing which is a lie is the Hulkbuster reward for completing Round 8 ( without swapping into a 110% pve alliance which thid event should discourage, not force us to...)

Unknown

LXSandman wrote:

Koko81 wrote:

I don't actually think they lied to us. We are competing for a 4* not a 3*. They won't go ahead and give three covers of hulkbuster to 20 members of an alliance and then run a PVE that rewards the same character. That's a potential 7-8 covers of a 4* given in a week which is unheard of when it comes to D3. I'm also seeing a lot of people pull hulkbuster from their token pulls and that would mean people might actually have 9-10 covers of a 4* within a week of its release without D3 making any money from them. Me and my alliance mates we are still at round 6 and understand that it might be very hard to finish this event, but farm it for the tokens and the iso and the minimal HP if you want. Do the progression so that you get Scarlet Witch and start covering her. It's a "pick your battles" situation right now and even with the increase of 4* availability through events we are sitting here and complaining about them.

While all of this is true and I agree with you for the most part. The issue here is not that "we should have just assumed it would be harder" It is that a dev actually came here and told us that the issue with having not enough health for a 20 member alliance to all get the progression rewards would not be "fixed" for this event. What does that tell us? It says that he won't have more then 20 million total health - And that is not true. That's the Issue.

I actually read that as "If you guys finish round 8 for hulkbuster, your alliance will still be locked out this time". I'm not trying to argue here defending them I'm just saying it could have been interpreted differently depending on how you read it.

donietsche

Koko81 wrote:

I don't actually think they lied to us. We are competing for a 4* not a 3*. They won't go ahead and give three covers of hulkbuster to 20 members of an alliance and then run a PVE that rewards the same character. That's a potential 7-8 covers of a 4* given in a week which is unheard of when it comes to D3. I'm also seeing a lot of people pull hulkbuster from their token pulls and that would mean people might actually have 9-10 covers of a 4* within a week of its release without D3 making any money from them. Me and my alliance mates we are still at round 6 and understand that it might be very hard to finish this event, but farm it for the tokens and the iso and the minimal HP if you want. Do the progression so that you get Scarlet Witch and start covering her. It's a "pick your battles" situation right now and even with the increase of 4* availability through events we are sitting here and complaining about them.

that makes sense (and honestly I'm more than fine with the 3 additional S.W. covers coming from progression rewards and 1 or 2 IMHB covers), but if the issue is that they were afraid to give out too many of those precious 4*, they simply could have decided to put only two of them as rewards, in node 7 and 8 (without shooting ultron's health to the moon... and beyond).

Having a reward that is basically unreachable is absurd (it looks like some sort of lab rat experiment).

Besides no one asked IMHB to be given away in another event, running at the same time of ultron's.

Bowgentle

Having HB black as the alliance reward in enemy of the state is a pretty good indication that they knew from the start that nobody was going to get all 3 colours from Ultron.

Yeah yeah, it's all RNG, sure. Pff.

Unknown

I see no lie here, only a bad assumption on a players' part that many of us already thought would not be the case. Slandering a dev due to disappointment is poor form.

fmftint

it wasn't a lie, but it was very misleading


I read it as we didn't intend for you to lock alliance mates out of progression, we cant fix that for run 2. they could have said due to insane health increase you wont lock other players out of progression

It is implied that in run 2 you would still lock players out of progression.

Roswulf

I mean, we know why he "lied" to us. He didn't think through or wasn't aware of the implications of the increased Ultron HP totals, and was thinking about a fix purely in terms of decoupling individual and alliance progression. We know this because the lie was to absolutely noone's advantage.

Why one of the very few communications from the Dev team following a very flawed event was misleading and bordering on untrue points to a serious problem at D3.

TheOncomingStorm

Bowgentle wrote:

He's not lying. I'm sure Ultron will shut down again once round 8 is done.

Of course, we won't be able to finish round 8 this time, but he didn't talk about that lol.

You say that, but what were we doing as a direct result of his comment? We were playing at a pace to try and let more of our players hit 1 million this event. His comments lead directly to this course of action.

I'm not saying we would have hit the insane amount to beat all 8 rounds, but going slower as a result of these comments wasn't doing anything to help speed us up.

I think we're all in agreement that even if they didn't have to tell the points changed, logically, they knew players (if they realized at all) would not realize until deep into the event the points had changed.

But this distracts from the real issue, the points requirements are wrong to begin with. I understand 4*'s being harder and not the entire player base should get them, but this goes too far.

I know demiurge_will has said he restarts his game to see things from a player perspective. He needs to join an alliance as well because there seems to be a huge disconnect in as far how you think alliances work and how they really work.

Lastly, you said Y'all had fun playing the event as a staff. I'm willing to bet that was not with scaling that gets too high too quickly, or having everyone have to play optimally for 4.5 days for a chance at rewards. You know how I know that, because I've had to do it, and it's not fun. Which begs the question, if it would not be fun for you to do it, why would you assume it'd be fun for your players to do it?

JVReal

He did say there wouldn't be the same problems this time around as it was the first time around... though he was talking about Server issues... it certainly applies to the actual event format.

I don't understand the people saying "It is a 4* event after all it should be harder"... that's true, but the rewards need to still be achievable, as was mentioned before, if you didn't want to give 3, don't offer 3. But DON'T OFFER 3, then NOT ALLOW people to actually get them through no fault of their own. I'll be curious to see when it's all said and done, how many people actually got all 3 covers.

simonsez

This isn't the first time we've seen something in the game that makes us think, "For crissakes, can't anyone over there do math?!". I'd chalk this up as yet another instance of this, rather than an attempt to give us false or misleading information.

SymmeTrey

His comment led GR00T to put heavy hitters into alliances with lighter players in Run 2 as opposed to Run 1 where we put all our heavy hitters into one alliance.

Long story short - Run 1 we were in exactly the wrong configuration and now we are in exactly the wrong configuration again because we were trying to adjust for the progression issue. Run 2 is when we should have had all our heavy hitters together again but we got faked out of it by the structure of Round 1 and Kabir's comments.

Unknown

The rewards are achievable but for those hardcore pve teams. My alliance isn't hardcore and we will finish round 6 today (that's 1 HB cover) and have two days to finish round 7 (Second HB cover). Ya we won't get to finish round 8 but doesn't mean we should be able to do it easily. It's gotten to the point on the forums where we want everything just given to us. Those rare alliances that actually get to finish round 8 are gonna feel pretty good of what they accomplished (even if that means major burnout) and they deserve that third and extra cover. If everyone is hitting top reward than whats the point of having a top reward. The top should be for those who deserve it, not those who just played it when they could. And it's not like they aren't giving you any HB covers.

I would rather have trouble collecting these characters rather than everyone playing with the same. Let's have some sense of reward in this game and not just easy hand downs.

Unknown

Koko81 wrote:

I actually read that as "If you guys finish round 8 for hulkbuster, your alliance will still be locked out this time". I'm not trying to argue here defending them I'm just saying it could have been interpreted differently depending on how you read it.

That's how I read it to. I think most of us were aware that to get max progression for Hulkbuster would have been much harder than Witch, they just seemed to have set the numbers to a silly amount.

Unknown

SymmeTrey wrote:

His comment led GR00T to put heavy hitters into alliances with lighter players in Run 2 as opposed to Run 1 where we put all our heavy hitters into one alliance.

Long story short - Run 1 we were in exactly the wrong configuration and now we are in exactly the wrong configuration again because we were trying to adjust for the progression issue. Run 2 is when we should have had all our heavy hitters together again but we got faked out of it by the structure of Round 1 and Kabir's comments.

That's unfortunate SymmeTrey...especially for your crew, who are some of the hardest PVE grinders out there.

The Tacos discussed it, but we didn't pull the trigger. I for one didn't trust D3 to not bullocks things up. I also felt like a reorganization was "getting to cute" for our own good.

Aside from a few Heavies in DPOrder (who we just couldn't fit in Tacos), we have our all of our hardest grinders in Tacos. And whether or not we clear Rd 8 is going to be decided by Ultron's Health...nothing else

Good luck.

easy...marc