*** Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff) ***

1235723

Comments

  • edited April 2015
    edit - this power might work differently than I thought, didn't realize the countdown was destroyed

    5 purple tiles in 8 - there are 56 possible combinations (8C3) = 8*7*6/(3*2*1)
    Of these, only 4 of them will give you a crit outright (>7.14%) without help of any other tiles:
    :purple: tutile.png greentile.png X2
    purpletile.png greentile.png greentile.png
    purpletile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png

    purpletile.png tutile.png greentile.png X2
    purpletile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png
    purpletile.png greentile.png greentile.png

    If the tile is up against the wall and there is a purple above or below, you're getting a crit for sure. The odds are at least 25% on that. Eg on left wall:
    :purple: tutile.png
    bluetile.png greentile.png
    countdown.png yellowtile.png
    redtile.png blacktile.png
    OR
    bluetile.png greentile.png
    countdown.png yellowtile.png
    redtile.png blacktile.png
    purpletile.png redtile.png

    However, this doesn't count external tiles or having purple already around the countdown tile, if you look at the game play, the Arcane Incantation was surrounded by 2 not overwritable purple already. The odds of making a crit are then 100%!

    While I do think this is mildly overpowered for a passive, I think the video really highlights Xavier's blue power. There's no way one of these 2 powers isn't getting a nerf eventually.
  • There's only a 29% chance that none of the 8 surrounding tiles are purple. Just working from the 1 existing purple you get 71% * 78.5% = 56% chance to create a match 5, and that's not counting any purple that may exist that's not immediately adjacent.
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    daibar wrote:
    5 purple tiles in 8 - there are 56 possible combinations (8C3) = 8*7*6/(3*2*1)
    Of these, only 4 of them will give you a crit outright:
    purpletile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png
    purpletile.png bluetile.png greentile.png
    purpletile.png greentile.png greentile.png

    However, this doesn't count external tiles or having purple already around the countdown tile, if you look at the game play, the Arcane Incantation was surrounded by 2 purple already. The odds of making a crit are then 100%!

    With 1 surrounding tile, you're getting 6 purple tiles in 8, 28 combinations. You only don't get a crit on these combinations:
    purpletile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png X4
    purpletile.png bluetile.png purpletile.png
    greentile.png purpletile.png greentile.png

    purpletile.png purpletile.png greentile.png X2
    purpletile.png bluetile.png purpletile.png
    greentile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png

    Crit chances:
    With 2 or more purple: 100%
    With 1 purple: > 22/28 ~= 78.5%
    With 0 purple: > 4/56 ~= 7.14%


    While I do think this is mildly overpowered for a passive, I think the video really highlights Xavier's blue power.

    Thanks for doing all the images out. Now it is somewhat random for me when you have matches made with tiles that drop, so I am not sure what order actually happens, but wouldn't you need to consider the blue tile disappearing when the countdown goes off? So for example, in your two sets that don't make a match 5, the blue tile disappears and the top purple tile would fall into the center. If there is a purple above that top tile, it would create a match 5. So it isn't just the question of if there are other purples in that 3x3 area, but also if there are other purples in that whole area surrounding it, I guess 5x5. So if you start off with this:

    greentile.png redtile.png purpletile.png redtile.png greentile.png
    greentile.png redtile.png greentile.png yellowtile.png bluetile.png
    purpletile.png bluetile.png bluetile.png redtile.png yellowtile.png
    greentile.png redtile.png purpletile.png yellowtile.png greentile.png
    blacktile.png bluetile.png greentile.png redtile.png purpletile.png

    Even your two examples would create

    greentile.png redtile.png tutile.png redtile.png greentile.png
    greentile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png bluetile.png
    purpletile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png purpletile.png yellowtile.png
    greentile.png redtile.png purpletile.png yellowtile.png greentile.png
    blacktile.png bluetile.png greentile.png redtile.png purpletile.png

    At least in your first example of one surrounding tile. So you need to look at the bigger picture. I think that really makes a huge difference. And that is only talking about automatic match fives. The player will usually be able to make a match five even if it isn't automatic with just a single purple in that 5x5 area.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    So when did Beast's old blue ability become overpowered. icon_lol.gif
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    So when did Beast's old blue ability become overpowered. icon_lol.gif

    Well, if Beast's old ability cost no AP to use, that'd likely have been quite overpowered.
  • I saw the mistake, corrected and shortened it. We definitely need a simulator that is able to detect when you have a crit possibility with Prof X gaining notoriety and more characters getting transformative skills.

    Scarlet Witch as is goes well with Mystique/ProfX, even with no yellow active and nothing on red.
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    daibar wrote:
    I saw the mistake, corrected and shortened it. We definitely need a simulator that is able to detect when you have a crit possibility with Prof X gaining notoriety and more characters getting transformative skills.

    Scarlet Witch as is goes well with Mystique/ProfX, even with no yellow active and nothing on red.

    Prof X has an active yellow. I would still probably rather have Deadpool to just get out the Whales! super fast, rather than have an extra activation of Master Plan from Infiltration, mainly because Deadpool has an active red that is really good and can keep SW alive longer with his black, to make this team super annoying on defense (for shield).
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    You can check out my post on PX

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28289

    But seriously any team that can create match 5's becomes broke with Xavier. Instead of Match 5 of purple, on a 14AP skill, it's match 9 and 4K dmg. Honestly I think having pX create CD tiles that generate AP in the strongest color is a much better route. Anytime a Passive is uncounterable you have a problem.

    Good Passive's
    Blade
    Captain Marvel
    Deadpool
    etc.--these are passive's where you can just play around

    Bad Passive's
    ================
    Prof X--blue
    Iron Fist
    Luke Cage
    Hood
    etc.
    these are passives that cannot be played around or to do so requires so much time and effort it warps the game. The solution to these are to either have low hit points for the character or very expensive skills.

    Prof X is running into Hood territory with his blue passive in that it is unstoppable and game warping, add to the fact he has 9K hit points and he is a problem.

    Scarlet Witch, a passive on a 3CD tile that gets her some purple I'm kinda okay with, but yeah Prof X needs to have the AP boost on his blue tweaked, the dmg is okay IMO the AP insanity not so much.
    I don't necessarily think that bad = uncounterable. It makes some characters unique.

    I also don't think it's coincidential many of the characters you listed have massively OP passives.

    Then again, I'm writing this under the expectations D3 cares about Rock paper scissors. Hint: They basically don't
  • I think passives are generally overpowered even in fairly straightforward cases, like compare Unbreakable to protect tile generators or Exquisite Technique to attack tile generators.
  • Phaserhawk wrote:
    So when did Beast's old blue ability become overpowered. icon_lol.gif

    When it doesn't cost 9 in the same color it produces. Anything that produces something for nothing is set up to be OP.
  • Lerysh wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    So when did Beast's old blue ability become overpowered. icon_lol.gif

    When it doesn't cost 9 in the same color it produces. Anything that produces something for nothing is set up to be OP.

    You know, I wouldn't be surprised if this is why we have such massively overpowered passives. It really does look like they look at Beast's old blue and say 'well everyone said that sucked, so surely if it cost nothing to use it'd still suck'. In their budget for abilities, it looks like having to spend AP to do stuff doesn't actually get you very much additional power.
  • Rework idea: Change the active area to 12 surrounding tiles. You could even increase the skill at max level to 6 purple tiles.
    greentile.png greentile.png tutile.png greentile.png greentile.png
    greentile.png tutile.png tutile.png tutile.png greentile.png
    tutile.png tutile.png countdown.png tutile.png tutile.png
    greentile.png tutile.png tutile.png tutile.png greentile.png
    greentile.png greentile.png tutile.png greentile.png greentile.png

    Still powerful, still a good chance of being a crit maker. Not guaranteed unless you have more than 4 purple already within the 12. Even in a bottom corner, you'd have a 100% chance of getting a crit if 3 tiles above was a purple, a more reasonable limitation.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    Phantron wrote:
    Lerysh wrote:
    Phaserhawk wrote:
    So when did Beast's old blue ability become overpowered. icon_lol.gif

    When it doesn't cost 9 in the same color it produces. Anything that produces something for nothing is set up to be OP.

    You know, I wouldn't be surprised if this is why we have such massively overpowered passives. It really does look like they look at Beast's old blue and say 'well everyone said that sucked, so surely if it cost nothing to use it'd still suck'. In their budget for abilities, it looks like having to spend AP to do stuff doesn't actually get you very much additional power.

    You may be more correct than you know.

    Passive's really have been coming out like crazy, I mean a majority of the last 10 characters have passives.

    Iron Fist, Khamala, Luke Cage, Xavier, King-Pin, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Cyclops, not to mention Loki and Doom Reworks

    Only KingPin and Cyclops plus Rags don't have Passive's and now Hulkbuster, just seems like a lot lately and some of them are just getting annoying. You can't play around Cage, IF, Khamal, Xavier or Scarlet Witch and even Doom. They either come back or require you to stop the team from using skills which is impossible.

    Defensive type passives I'm okay with, like Cage, Khamal because they are unique as someone said and they don't directly hurt you. They slow the game, but they aren't slowly whittiling down your health like IF, or oops I got a match 5 and you are dead.

    Oh well, I can always quit if it is an issue right? icon_rolleyes.gif
  • daibar wrote:
    Rework idea: Change the active area to 12 surrounding tiles. You could even increase the skill at max level to 6 purple tiles.
    greentile.png greentile.png tutile.png greentile.png greentile.png
    greentile.png tutile.png tutile.png tutile.png greentile.png
    tutile.png tutile.png countdown.png tutile.png tutile.png
    greentile.png tutile.png tutile.png tutile.png greentile.png
    greentile.png greentile.png tutile.png greentile.png greentile.png

    Still powerful, still a good chance of being a crit maker. Not guaranteed unless you have more than 4 purple already within the 12. Even in a bottom corner, you'd have a 100% chance of getting a crit if 3 tiles above was a purple, a more reasonable limitation.

    I think it should just add 5 purple tiles to the entire board. An ability that's just straight up 5 AP to add 5 tiles to the board would still be a pretty good color generator (Mystique is 10 AP for 9 tiles added and in different colors) let alone free. This ability should have a threshold cost and drain some blue AP when it does activate, say require to hold 5 blue AP and drain up to 3 blue AP when CD resolves. That'd basically be a 3 blue AP for 5 tile ability that you can try over and over (no AP is drained if the tile gets matched).
  • ThatOneGuyjp189512ThatOneGuyjp189512 Age Unconfirmed Posts: 540 Critical Contributor
    Having played with my 132 5/3/5 SW, her passive is bordering on OP. At least once per match it went off and created a critical, and 14ap isn't much when you're constantly get at least a match 3 when it goes off.
  • OzarkBoatswainOzarkBoatswain Posts: 645 Critical Contributor
    notamutant wrote:
    daibar wrote:
    Scarlet Witch as is goes well with Mystique/ProfX, even with no yellow active and nothing on red.

    Prof X has an active yellow.

    Prof X's active is purple.
  • MawtfulMawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    I was just running my 1/1/1 SW through some prologue goon nodes to check out animations, etc.

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but her blue countdown can target adjacent purple tiles - resulting in no change. I suppose that only re-inforces the need to go to rank 5, but even then it is actually possible for 0 ap to be generated by this ability.
  • edited April 2015
    notamutant wrote:
    This just in from your friendly neighborhood youtuber. My newest videos are out for Scarlet Witch. The first video I discuss her skills and provide some basic analysis. My second video shows her in action. After playing three matches with her, I unfortunately have to say that I am almost certain she will be nerfed. I think D3 needs to remove Prof X from the game because he is destroying every other character team up. Compare her to my original Iron Fist, Prox X, and Mystique video I also released to show how overpowered that team was before the nerf, and she makes that team look like pudding. I got 14 purple AP by round 5, and I would've had more if my Prof X wasn't max level.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO47DvUW7QY
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m14VbxOFQCA

    In the video, blue goes off 10 times.
    Summarized results:
    7 crits. (70%) (3 of them had 100% crit chance!)
    2 match 3s (20%)
    1 no match (10%)

    Most interesting results:
    10:12 100% crit chance off left wall
    16:06 100% crit chance off right wall

    Fuller Results:
    Everytime the blue passive goes off: 2:15, 3:35, 5:00, 6:06, 8:35, 10:12, 12:43, 13:22, 14:46, 16:06
    13:49, blue passive automatically matches itself.

    2:15 Crit, (2 purple below, not targeted, 14/21 = 66.7% chance)
    3:35 match 3, (top left corner, next to purple)
    5:00 Crit, (lucky, next to 2 purple, 6/35 = 17.1% chance)
    6:06 Crit, (next to 2 purple, 1/3 = 33.3% crit chance)
    8:35 no match, (top right corner, If he brought it down one row, it'd be 100% crit chance.)
    10:12 crit, (left wall, pink above, 100% crit chance)
    12:43 match 3 (bottom)
    13:22 crit (100%)
    14:46 crit (lots of surrounding pink, 22/28 = 78.5% crit chance)
    16:06 crit (right wall 100%)
    Wall crits: (left wall example)
    purpletile.png redtile.png yellowtile.png
    tutile.png yellowtile.png redtile.png
    countdown.png yellowtile.png purpletile.png
    redtile.png blacktile.png purpletile.png
    purpletile.png greentile.png bluetile.png
    If you have a purple in any of those 4 spots, it's an automatic 100% crit chance. One of these purples has a pretty good chance (46.0%) of existing if the countdown is in the middle 4 rows.
    Mawtful wrote:
    I was just running my 1/1/1 SW through some prologue goon nodes to check out animations, etc.

    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but her blue countdown can target adjacent purple tiles - resulting in no change. I suppose that only re-inforces the need to go to rank 5, but even then it is actually possible for 0 ap to be generated by this ability.
    Confirmed. In the video notamutant posted, this happens as 10:12 and 14:46. Consequences?
    Future Sim/Gauntlet nodes: Her with iso-8 mutants (the ones that generate multiple purple iso-8 countdowns) and Elektra (purple strike tiles) are more likely to generate crits.
  • jojeda654jojeda654 Posts: 1,157 Chairperson of the Boards
    Mawtful wrote:
    I haven't seen anyone mention this yet, but her blue countdown can target adjacent purple tiles - resulting in no change.

    I guess for a passive that's ok. I remember Thor's Yellow used to not check if the tile was already green before changing it, but that was fixed after a while.
  • TheHueyFreemanTheHueyFreeman Age Unconfirmed Posts: 472 Mover and Shaker
    So, for those of us without Professor X, who else is a good partner?
Sign In or Register to comment.