*** Scarlet Witch (Wanda Maximoff) ***

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Comments

  • evil panda wrote:
    why does scarlet witch not have red as one of her colors?

    Same way Psylocke doesn't have a purple skill. I mean, come on!
  • I read people say she will be nerfed. I want to like her, but am I the only one who finds her slow and boring?

    - Her AOE with the stun is nice, mostly because it's purple which is one of the weakest colors, but the stun is unreliable, unless there is only 1 enemy remaining, and the damage is way weaker than Ms. Marvel's green which needs 1 less match.
    - Her green is also terribly unreliable. 8 green AP (until 10 days ago they could down a character when used by XF) for 1 + 4 random AP with no guarantee to kill an enemy tile and no guarantee of a cascade. I bet most will go for 5/3/5 which will make green even worse.
    - The AP generation is cool, but a 3-turn CD tile is not that fast. We have to consider ourselves lucky even if even half the CD tiles trigger. At level 5 it will probably auto match-3 when it triggers, which means you will need 3-4 tiles to trigger in order to give enough AP (assuming you make 1-2 manual matches and that the AI won't match purple and won't destroy CD). Unless I am mistaken, it will work like this: t1: create a CD, t2: count 2, t3: count 1, t4: trigger, t5: create a CD, etc.
    That is 12-15 turns in order to do 2k damage to enemies. If we had this ability before the health buff received by almost everyone, then it would be a potent ability. Now, with most heroes at 8K health, it is very mediocre.
  • Actually, its even slower than that. Passives do not trigger on round one, only on round two onwars.
  • Arcane Incantation - Passive bluetile.png
    (PASSIVE) Scarlet Witch begins a complex ritual, as it grows in power the very fabric of reality seems to writhe. At the beginning of her turn, if one does not exist, she creates a 4-turn Countdown tile that transforms 2 random adjacent basic tiles to Purple.
    Level Upgrades
      Level 2: Transforms 3 basic tiles. Level 3: Transforms 4 basic tiles. Level 4: Creates a 3-turn Countdown tile that transforms 4 basic tiles. Level 5: Transforms 5 basic tiles.

    Ok, so her passive can "transform 5 basic tiles around her ecountdown.png tile".
    Since I don't have her, yet, I am assuming it should be something like this?
    8ElAt4.png

    hmmm and then the ecountdown.png tile will also disappear, making some patterns generating some purpletile.png AP right away.
    Looking good unless they decided to nerf her later like IF.
  • poomermonpoomermon Posts: 300 Mover and Shaker
    As for her green does it destroy team up tiles? If not you could creatively make cascades happen more reliably. Like target an area with 4 tu tiles and the rest get destroyed automatically and possibly matching tu tiles as well.

    Also she could work well with kingpin with her blue countdowns. Reliable 5k damage for 6 black is pretty good or just let her feed big K some purple which he then can use to generate yellow for some maggia goodness.
  • poomermon wrote:
    As for her green does it destroy team up tiles? If not you could creatively make cascades happen more reliably. Like target an area with 4 tu tiles and the rest get destroyed automatically and possibly matching tu tiles as well.

    Also she could work well with kingpin with her blue countdowns. Reliable 5k damage for 6 black is pretty good or just let her feed big K some purple which he then can use to generate yellow for some maggia goodness.
    Tu tiles count as basic, yeah
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    This just in from your friendly neighborhood youtuber. My newest videos are out for Scarlet Witch. The first video I discuss her skills and provide some basic analysis. My second video shows her in action. After playing three matches with her, I unfortunately have to say that I am almost certain she will be nerfed. I think D3 needs to remove Prof X from the game because he is destroying every other character team up. Compare her to my original Iron Fist, Prox X, and Mystique video I also released to show how overpowered that team was before the nerf, and she makes that team look like pudding. I got 14 purple AP by round 5, and I would've had more if my Prof X wasn't max level.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO47DvUW7QY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m14VbxOFQCA
  • The hex bolt into 2 match 5s was just good luck and nothing particularly unusual.

    The passive suffers from the general problem that a lot of passives in this game seems to be balanced as if it's an active ability. The blue passive might be okay if it was say a 6 blue AP move that did the same thing per use with a 2 turn CD, and apparently adding a turn to the use means the cost should go to 0.
  • simonsezsimonsez Posts: 4,663 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    I am almost certain she will be nerfed
    I don't know if evaluating her passive against goons that spam purple and set up match5's for you, is really the most objective way to assess how OP she is or isn't.
  • notamutant wrote:
    This just in from your friendly neighborhood youtuber. My newest videos are out for Scarlet Witch. The first video I discuss her skills and provide some basic analysis. My second video shows her in action. After playing three matches with her, I unfortunately have to say that I am almost certain she will be nerfed. I think D3 needs to remove Prof X from the game because he is destroying every other character team up. Compare her to my original Iron Fist, Prox X, and Mystique video I also released to show how overpowered that team was before the nerf, and she makes that team look like pudding. I got 14 purple AP by round 5, and I would've had more if my Prof X wasn't max level.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO47DvUW7QY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m14VbxOFQCA
    she's gonna get nerfed I don't see why they let characters have AP abilities anymore, they might as well say 'you can equip 2 AP boosts without paying'
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    simonsez wrote:
    notamutant wrote:
    I am almost certain she will be nerfed
    I don't know if evaluating her passive against goons that spam purple and set up match5's for you, is really the most objective way to assess how OP she is or isn't.

    I absolutely agree that the tile is much more likely to get matched away against non-goon characters, but I did play multiple matches with her, including against non-goons. If her blue passive goes off, it is almost a guaranteed match 5. Which is a master plan going off by the fifth turn most likely. And with the right character levels/order, that means you will have at least 9 purple AP without making a single purple match until that countdown goes off, in addition to the damage. I am too lazy to figure out all the combinations of the blue passive, but with 5 out of 9 tiles turning purple (and the middle tile disappearing since it is a countdown), there are only two or three combinations that will give you no match at all, a bunch that will give you two match threes, and then every other combination just about would give you match fives.

    And I did have some crazy luck in the matches, but it was weird, almost as if her hex powers altered reality and gave me more match fives than I should've normally gotten...
  • There just aren't a lot of ways to put 5 purple tiles in 8 tiles without creating a match 5. You can simply imagine the ability as 'every 5-7 turns you get a free purple match 5 somewhere on the board' (to account for the tile getting matched or that occasionally it will not be a match 5) and that sure seems pretty overpowered for free. If there was some kind of AP cost to it, or at least a threshold requirement that might make sense. I'm thinking something like 'must hold 8 blue AP' would be about right. 5 (ala Redwing) seems too cheap for an ability like that and 12 is a bit too much (Iron Fist). This would basically force you to either have no blue active ability or hold back your blue ability most of the time to get the passive, and I think that's a barely balanced tradeoff there.
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    Phantron wrote:
    There just aren't a lot of ways to put 5 purple tiles in 8 tiles without creating a match 5. You can simply imagine the ability as 'every 5-7 turns you get a free purple match 5 somewhere on the board' (to account for the tile getting matched or that occasionally it will not be a match 5) and that sure seems pretty overpowered for free. If there was some kind of AP cost to it, or at least a threshold requirement that might make sense. I'm thinking something like 'must hold 8 blue AP' would be about right. 5 (ala Redwing) seems too cheap for an ability like that and 12 is a bit too much (Iron Fist). This would basically force you to either have no blue active ability or hold back your blue ability most of the time to get the passive, and I think that's a barely balanced tradeoff there.

    It is a tough skill to balance. At anything but 5, there is a much smaller chance of this skill being useful, so making you hold a minimum AP could make the skill useless. We have seen how their overnerfing works lately. This is why I am annoyed with Prof X. There is nothing wrong with a character being capable of creating cascades or match 5s. But when you have a character able to turn those match 5s into 4.5k damage and 4ap, you basically need to make any skill which does such a thing really expensive or random. From my old experiments, without Prof X blue, Mystique, Iron Fist, Magneto, never would've need to be nerfed really. I believe that is probably why they nerfed QS black, so he couldn't keep swapping for match 5s and getting infinite black from Master Plan. They want to prevent infinite turn combos, and they also want to prevent early turn spikes. Master Plan makes so many cool skill ideas OP. Which is annoying, because most players don't have Prof X usable yet, and these cascade characters are usually useless on defense.

    So, back to SW. In the current reality, is her blue OP? I almost never actually see Prof X in PvP. Maybe it is because of my own roster and MMR, maybe it is because I usually stop around 700 points, maybe it is because not that many people have him yet, or maybe it is because he sucks on defense. Currently, I just don't see him that often, so nerfing him isn't going to change the game that much, nor will nerfing SW skill that only really works that well with Prof X make much of a difference. On its own, without Prof X, a single match 5 created every 4 turns isn't that strong. Maybe 500-1k damage and 5 purple AP. That requires her having a lower level green or purple. Her health is decent, but you will likely be able to kill her before her purple goes off. I think the thing to consider when going up against her is bringing Hood. Of course, I didn't show how she would work with her own Hood. I suppose she could get to 14 purple even quicker with Hood and Loki on the board. Can use Hood occasionally to speed up her blue with intimidation.

    She is a really good character, and I hope she isn't nerfed, but I can definitely see how the skill can be considered OP with what else is currently out there. I just don't know of a good fix that wouldn't make it useless in certain situations, like if it isn't maxed. Imagine it at 3 covers, requiring you to have 5 blue to create a 4 turn countdown tile that makes 4 purple. That is useless. It would rarely go off, and when it did, nothing would happen.
  • I just used her for the first time and saw that hew blue can turn any tile into her blue CD, and can even make a cascade just by spawning by the side of two other blue tiles. Ive got some huge cascades off 1 CD disappearing like DP or Cage black tile, imagine when the tile goes off putting 5 of the same color? lol
  • MawtfulMawtful Posts: 1,646 Chairperson of the Boards
    notamutant wrote:
    So, back to SW. In the current reality, is her blue OP? I almost never actually see Prof X in PvP. Maybe it is because of my own roster and MMR, maybe it is because I usually stop around 700 points, maybe it is because not that many people have him yet, or maybe it is because he sucks on defense.

    It probably also depends on the event. In Identity Theft (for me), it was wall to wall Max Mystique + Professor X from about 100 points onwards. Usually Iron Fist as the 3rd. That's a team that can still steamroll on defense. With enough Blue or Purple, you either get Infiltration or IFoKL - and if either ability causes a match-5, then you're about to enter The Professor's World of Pain. Conversely, I didn't see him show his face once during First Avenger (and he's got a giant moonface that kind of floats towards you - it's hard to miss).

    Scarlet Witch's passive is a chance at a match-5 every few turns, which suits PX just fine, so I would expect him to show up in her PvP.
  • Mawtful wrote:
    notamutant wrote:
    So, back to SW. In the current reality, is her blue OP? I almost never actually see Prof X in PvP. Maybe it is because of my own roster and MMR, maybe it is because I usually stop around 700 points, maybe it is because not that many people have him yet, or maybe it is because he sucks on defense.

    It probably also depends on the event. In Identity Theft (for me), it was wall to wall Max Mystique + Professor X from about 100 points onwards. Usually Iron Fist as the 3rd. That's a team that can still steamroll on defense. With enough Blue or Purple, you either get Infiltration or IFoKL - and if either ability causes a match-5, then you're about to enter The Professor's World of Pain. Conversely, I didn't see him show his face once during First Avenger (and he's got a giant moonface that kind of floats towards you - it's hard to miss).

    Scarlet Witch's passive is a chance at a match-5 every few turns, which suits PX just fine, so I would expect him to show up in her PvP.

    PX is a virtual GOD on defense, if he is your only purple user. Once he goes invis and starts buffing those tiles, look out. And invis can be hard to counter sometimes. PX worth less than 30 points = auto skip for me.

    The reason you didn't see him in First Avenger is L.Cap is his kryptonite. Overwrite invis, do 6k damage, crushed in floating moon face with a frisbee. In a L.Cap event he's bad, in a non L.Cap event you force someone to use L.Cap in PvP which is sub optimal so your defense is good.
  • PhaserhawkPhaserhawk Age Unconfirmed Posts: 2,676 Chairperson of the Boards
    You can check out my post on PX

    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28289

    But seriously any team that can create match 5's becomes broke with Xavier. Instead of Match 5 of purple, on a 14AP skill, it's match 9 and 4K dmg. Honestly I think having pX create CD tiles that generate AP in the strongest color is a much better route. Anytime a Passive is uncounterable you have a problem.

    Good Passive's
    Blade
    Captain Marvel
    Deadpool
    etc.--these are passive's where you can just play around

    Bad Passive's
    ================
    Prof X--blue
    Iron Fist
    Luke Cage
    Hood
    etc.
    these are passives that cannot be played around or to do so requires so much time and effort it warps the game. The solution to these are to either have low hit points for the character or very expensive skills.

    Prof X is running into Hood territory with his blue passive in that it is unstoppable and game warping, add to the fact he has 9K hit points and he is a problem.

    Scarlet Witch, a passive on a 3CD tile that gets her some purple I'm kinda okay with, but yeah Prof X needs to have the AP boost on his blue tweaked, the dmg is okay IMO the AP insanity not so much.
  • Cypr3ssCypr3ss Age Unconfirmed Posts: 155 Tile Toppler
    notamutant wrote:
    This just in from your friendly neighborhood youtuber. My newest videos are out for Scarlet Witch. The first video I discuss her skills and provide some basic analysis. My second video shows her in action. After playing three matches with her, I unfortunately have to say that I am almost certain she will be nerfed. I think D3 needs to remove Prof X from the game because he is destroying every other character team up. Compare her to my original Iron Fist, Prox X, and Mystique video I also released to show how overpowered that team was before the nerf, and she makes that team look like pudding. I got 14 purple AP by round 5, and I would've had more if my Prof X wasn't max level.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO47DvUW7QY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m14VbxOFQCA

    I'm fairly sure all the 2nd vid shows is how OP Prof X blue is, it's just crazy! icon_eek.gif As well as how annoying his other passive is. I know you were trying to demo Scarlet Witch, but I think you missed the mark.

    Regards,
    Cypr3ss.
  • notamutantnotamutant Age Unconfirmed Posts: 855 Critical Contributor
    Cypr3ss wrote:
    notamutant wrote:
    This just in from your friendly neighborhood youtuber. My newest videos are out for Scarlet Witch. The first video I discuss her skills and provide some basic analysis. My second video shows her in action. After playing three matches with her, I unfortunately have to say that I am almost certain she will be nerfed. I think D3 needs to remove Prof X from the game because he is destroying every other character team up. Compare her to my original Iron Fist, Prox X, and Mystique video I also released to show how overpowered that team was before the nerf, and she makes that team look like pudding. I got 14 purple AP by round 5, and I would've had more if my Prof X wasn't max level.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO47DvUW7QY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m14VbxOFQCA

    I'm fairly sure all the 2nd vid shows is how OP Prof X blue is, it's just crazy! icon_eek.gif As well as how annoying his other passive is. I know you were trying to demo Scarlet Witch, but I think you missed the mark.

    Regards,
    Cypr3ss.

    Yes, Prof X is great, but only in certain scenarios. You need to get match 5s to really do anything useful with Prof X. There is not a single tile generator comparable to Scarlet Witch that sets up Prof X. Every single other character requires AP before they can create new tiles. SW does it passively. And she does it reliably. In a regular game with Prof X and Iron Fist, you will probably get one or two master plans off if you are lucky. SW is going to get a Master Plan set off every 3 turns just about. You have to look at characters synergy, not alone. Honestly, if I didn't have Prof X, SW wouldn't be that impressive. I would still probably pair her with Deadpool.
  • Omega RedOmega Red Posts: 366 Mover and Shaker
    notamutant wrote:
    This just in from your friendly neighborhood youtuber. My newest videos are out for Scarlet Witch. The first video I discuss her skills and provide some basic analysis. My second video shows her in action. After playing three matches with her, I unfortunately have to say that I am almost certain she will be nerfed. I think D3 needs to remove Prof X from the game because he is destroying every other character team up. Compare her to my original Iron Fist, Prox X, and Mystique video I also released to show how overpowered that team was before the nerf, and she makes that team look like pudding. I got 14 purple AP by round 5, and I would've had more if my Prof X wasn't max level.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lO47DvUW7QY

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m14VbxOFQCA

    Prof X blue by itself is a power that will go off once in a typical match if you are lucky and you cannot always control who to launch it against. It is very unreliable and sort of high-risk, high-reward. He needs enablers for his blue to be more reliable.

    You just see the effects of SW's blue and you go "this is way OP". What you actually did is pairing her with two characters she has the best sinergy. You ever tried Loki with Storm? I bet you would find that thing overpowered too. Or try Deadpool's final node with Prof. X, Daredevil and Cyclops. I guarantee you are going to scream for a nerf after that, and not Prof X's.

    Wanda's blue seems fine as it is. There are plenty of ways a three-turn countdown can be removed from the board even by the dumb AI. It is by no means an automatic masterplan every four turns, not at all. Unless you play against a goons-only team but we know that those nodes make plenty of characters look overpowered. Is her blue her best skill? Yes, but far from game-breaking, even if paired with Iron Fist, Prof X or Kingpin. Those are some nasty combinations but I do not know, that is the whole freaking point of a game like this.
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