The devs will NEVER give us a respec system.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

That's why they are trying to cut down on skipping. So that they can actually get a gauge on your limits and your abilities and match you against your peers. Ideally they would find an MMR level where you have to use a health pack every 10 fights or so. Enough to be statistically valid but not enough to force you to stop playing waiting for health packs.

Majority of current skipping is to sort through 1 pts matches when you're high and 10- pts ones when you're in middle and want to go up -- and everyone knows that you're at net loss playing down. But playing up needs 10-15 skips, way more to end of tournament as shielded people are removed.

The tax is NOT addressing the problem, just makes it worse and way more frustrating that you're taxed for a pack of design flaws.

Actually I wouldn't mind so much playing the 10 pts match if that was the net gain, instead of invitation to go down 30 in few minutes -- but it is not in the pack anywhere.

Eddiemon

pasa_ wrote:

Do you play the game actually? The experience is getting worse and worse. With any step forward we had 2-3 steps back. Root problems are never touched, only workarounds applied that cause more serious problems on some end. With shields the "problem" was on the other side -- progression rewards got accessible by actual players rather than just sitting as teaser -- so they had to ruin everything in several more steps until the original inaccessibility got restored. That it made the game a nightmare is not the point. Guess they even like that shields are now strictly mandatory for any HP-granting position, no more freebies, suckers.

Sure. Let's see.

Shields dealt with my problem that you needed to be on in the last 2 hours of a PvP event or you never placed. All the effort outside of those 2 hours was pointless and I have a job that limits my ability to play in the middle of the night or between 9 and 5. So shields absolutely solved a problem for me.

Every change they make, we as players will try to exploit it. And while they may be a company of say a few hundred people, there are tens of thousands of us playing. We will be more crative and more ruthless on the choices they give us than they can imagine.

So players started using shields cooperatively as stepping stones in the PvP event that is meant to be competitive. They were even sticking in bagman teams to give other players a leg up. This lead to points rising out of control, but it also moved the winning balance in PvP from the best teams to the people who could grind the longest on shielded people. People were scouting their opponents to see who was shielded so they could avoid retaliations. PvP was becoming PvE

To counter that they tried raising the price of shields, but that made them moneygrubbing barstools. So instead they made shielded people mostly invisible This caused the problem that when people are out of shielding there is a much smaller target pool so they get attacked more often. I don't know what the solution to the problem is, but the point is that I can see them trying to deal with the issues. It is whack a mole because we have far more room to be creative than they do, and they have to program and test their next idea which takes time while we just go to town on any flaws.

But through all of that, I'm still no longer forced to play the PvP tournament according to its finishing clock, so they haven't taken a step backwards behind where they started. More 2 steps forward, one step back which is progress.

Nemek

The only way these threads will stop is if people stop responding. At this rate I hope the devs make things worse just so mechgouki quits the game.

Unknown

Nemek wrote:

The only way these threads will stop is if people stop responding. At this rate I hope the devs make things worse just so mechgouki quits the game.

This. *Is aware of hypocritically responding to thread*

Unknown

mechgouki, let me give you unsolicited but honest advice. I can tell you're quite frustrated with the game and the developers, and hey, you're entitled to feel whatever you want to feel and think whatever you want to think. You may even have some good points and good ideas. The way that you are expressing them causes any good point you make to get lost in the mess of hostility and insults. People will listen less to anything of value you have to add because of the way you're presenting it. This isn't meant to be an insult, just honest feedback. Tone down the flames and you'll be surprised at how receptive people are.

Unknown

Nice strawman. I pointed out things that were MORE important. That's how priorities work. That's why the devs have a list.

Correction. You clearly implied that just because the player base want a respec system, they "act with the self restraint and understanding of a four year old who wants an ice cream".

I called you out on that ****.

It is not wrong to want a respec system, so that you can undo your mistakes, and not have to throw out that 13 covers that you have already invested in.

You on the other hand, think that it is wrong, and that the player base that wants this function "seems to act with the self restraint and understanding of a four year old who wants an ice cream."

Really? Even when, for example, they halved the price of shields again? Your hyperbole creates a recursive loop of broken logic.

Did you by any chance forget that in order to make that price correction, they had to screw up the prices in the first place? Simple terms, they created that mess of a price hike to begin with.

But if you want to get literal, and say that absolute statements are inaccurate, then yes, you are right. I am not correct.

Not EVERY change they made to the PVP system was worse than the last. Happy with that correction?

Ideally they would find an MMR level where you have to use a health pack every 10 fights or so.

That would only happen if you use a heal character. 10 fights? Seriously? I don't think you are in MMR hell yet.

That's why they are trying to cut down on skipping.

This might come as a surprise to you, but choosing the right opponent is a vital part of strategizing. It's nice that you think that just jumping right at the enemy is a good thing. But I disagree. Picking the right enemy is crucial.

I don't necessarily disagree with several of the other points you mentioned, so I won't argue with them.

But I just need to be absolutely clear with you on this point. YOU were the one who implied that people who demand a respec system were spoilt and unreasonable. I posted that to call YOU out on that ****.

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

pasa_ wrote:

Do you play the game actually? The experience is getting worse and worse. With any step forward we had 2-3 steps back. Root problems are never touched, only workarounds applied that cause more serious problems on some end. With shields the "problem" was on the other side -- progression rewards got accessible by actual players rather than just sitting as teaser -- so they had to ruin everything in several more steps until the original inaccessibility got restored. That it made the game a nightmare is not the point. Guess they even like that shields are now strictly mandatory for any HP-granting position, no more freebies, suckers.

Sure. Let's see.

Shields dealt with my problem that you needed to be on in the last 2 hours of a PvP event or you never placed. All the effort outside of those 2 hours was pointless and I have a job that limits my ability to play in the middle of the night or between 9 and 5. So shields absolutely solved a problem for me.

Every change they make, we as players will try to exploit it. And while they may be a company of say a few hundred people, there are tens of thousands of us playing. We will be more crative and more ruthless on the choices they give us than they can imagine.

So players started using shields cooperatively as stepping stones in the PvP event that is meant to be competitive. They were even sticking in bagman teams to give other players a leg up. This lead to points rising out of control, but it also moved the winning balance in PvP from the best teams to the people who could grind the longest on shielded people. People were scouting their opponents to see who was shielded so they could avoid retaliations. PvP was becoming PvE

To counter that they tried raising the price of shields, but that made them moneygrubbing barstools. So instead they made shielded people mostly invisible This caused the problem that when people are out of shielding there is a much smaller target pool so they get attacked more often. I don't know what the solution to the problem is, but the point is that I can see them trying to deal with the issues. It is whack a mole because we have far more room to be creative than they do, and they have to program and test their next idea which takes time while we just go to town on any flaws.

But through all of that, I'm still no longer forced to play the PvP tournament according to its finishing clock, so they haven't taken a step backwards behind where they started. More 2 steps forward, one step back which is progress.

Like I said earlier in this thread, the idea behind having shields is pretty good, and sure it has it's benefits, but don't you want to play the game? Shields = not playing.

Eddiemon

pasa_ wrote:

Eddiemon wrote:

That's why they are trying to cut down on skipping. So that they can actually get a gauge on your limits and your abilities and match you against your peers. Ideally they would find an MMR level where you have to use a health pack every 10 fights or so. Enough to be statistically valid but not enough to force you to stop playing waiting for health packs.

Majority of current skipping is to sort through 1 pts matches when you're high and 10- pts ones when you're in middle and want to go up -- and everyone knows that you're at net loss playing down. But playing up needs 10-15 skips, way more to end of tournament as shielded people are removed.

The tax is NOT addressing the problem, just makes it worse and way more frustrating that you're taxed for a pack of design flaws.

Actually I wouldn't mind so much playing the 10 pts match if that was the net gain, instead of invitation to go down 30 in few minutes -- but it is not in the pack anywhere.

But yet again the issue is that there is no functional MMR algorithm. The computer is trying to match you, a 100% winner against all the other 100% winners out there, and so they are so far below you they are on 1 point and 10 points and so on. The pool of people at the 100% win tier is massive and ugly, and if you have a high score then most of them are well below you.

Now if the lower scoring people are forced to take some challenging fights by the no skip algorithm and they lose team members then they fall out of your tier. Most of those 1 pointers disappear and you are left with people who have a similar success rate to yourself, and so should be in the same point category. You may need to skip once in a while, but they have upped the ISO rewards to allow for occasional skips.

But to achieve that state you first must force people to take on the challenging fights which will actually rate them. You cannot implement the correct rating before the no skip policy because it is the no skip policy that forces a rating to be generated. But once you have that it is self reinforcing and limits the need to actually skip.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

It's not remotely ironic in the slightest. I'm not whining at you. I'm telling you to STFU because you are an annoying child.

Then you are not only a whiner, you are in complete denial as well.

You're whining too. Fact. Deal with it. And you are annoying too. Less than me, I know, but still annoying.

STFU, fellow whiner.

Eddiemon

MikeHock wrote:

Like I said earlier in this thread, the idea behind having shields is pretty good, and sure it has it's benefits, but don't you want to play the game? Shields = not playing.

That's a terrible set of options.

I want to play the game when it is convenient for me, not in the last 2 hours of whatever clock is set for an event. Shields = playing to my schedule. No shields = not much point in playing because events are scheduled to end when convenient for Europe or America and being nowhere near either timezone my job and the sleep required would preclude me from ever competing.

Unknown

mechgouki wrote:

jozier wrote:

It's not remotely ironic in the slightest. I'm not whining at you. I'm telling you to STFU because you are an annoying child.

Then you are not only a whiner, you are in complete denial as well.

You're whining too. Fact. Deal with it. And you are annoying too. Less than me, I know, but still annoying.

STFU, fellow whiner.

No dude, you don't get it. Telling you to STFU is not whining. It's putting a bratty child in his place. I hope the mods ban you from this forum. You're a waste of space and contribute nothing to the community. You suck at this game to boot.

Piss off.

Unknown

beezer37_84 wrote:

Considering this was posted by a Dev in the thread that was made specifically to discuss the Wolviethor funbalancing the timing from the op seems odd to me:

IceIX wrote:

Ben Grimm wrote:

1. I think I may need to respec my Thor (he's currently 3/5/3) though I'm not sure yet. Is this coming?
2. Is 5/5/3 now the optimal Wolverine build?

1. It's coming. I do not however, have a timeline. We want to make sure the system for that is extensible and robust and not just a new UI using Gorn Engineering to get it working.
2. That's what I'd run personally. But I'm a "kill them before they kill you" type player.

To quote the old wisdom, "Perfect is enemy of good."

People need the feature, need it now, would be glad with whatever hacked-together UI that is capable to do the job, and there are trivial design ideas for it too.

So that particular announce item indicates that user requests are run at way lover priorities compared to some broader and most abstract artistic ones. Both in long and short run. What leads to the sour but fair estimate in OP. With all the paint-up it still supposed to be a collection-progression-strategy game at heart. For that respec is a fundamental, key feature. And while it could be said you have one way to evolve a beast and be take responsibility for your actions, that argument falls when the beasts keep morphing to different specs than existed at decision-making point.

In short: the waiting for some shiny new interface block to roll out is a really lame excuse for delay. We use and teach the incremental approach to development, don't we?

Unknown

Eddiemon wrote:

MikeHock wrote:

because events are scheduled to end when convenient for Europe or America and being nowhere near either timezone my job and the sleep required would preclude me from ever competing.

For the record there are no schedules convenient for Europe currently, event end at 6AM when people sleep and 6PM when they are at work.

Unknown

jozier wrote:

No dude, you don't get it. Telling you to STFU is not whining. It's putting a bratty child in his place. I hope the mods ban you from this forum. You're a waste of space and contribute nothing to the community. You suck at this game to boot.

Piss off.

Then why the hell are you paying attention to this waste of space? Nothing better to do with your life? You have no idea of your own contradiction, do you?

Go talk to someone who isn't a waste of space. Or do they not want to talk to you because you piss them off too?

You know what? I don't feel like STFUing, and I don't feel like pissing off.

So go cry a river and whine like a brat about it.

Unknown

pasa_ wrote:

Eddiemon wrote:

MikeHock wrote:

because events are scheduled to end when convenient for Europe or America and being nowhere near either timezone my job and the sleep required would preclude me from ever competing.

For the record there are no schedules convenient for Europe currently, event end at 6AM when people sleep and 6PM when they are at work.

Lightning rounds are pretty convenient for Europeans.

Unknown

Step One: Remove sand from ****.
Step Two: Carry On.

Unknown

I honestly don't know how you have so much energy to keep playing something you clearly hate. I've been on a few online forums in my time and you are one of the most insufferable posters I've seen on any one of them.

Unknown

Report his posts. He's been suspended before and no doubt if enough people complain, they'll do it again and get rid of his useless ****.

Unknown

RemusThirty wrote:

mechgouki, let me give you unsolicited but honest advice. I can tell you're quite frustrated with the game and the developers, and hey, you're entitled to feel whatever you want to feel and think whatever you want to think. You may even have some good points and good ideas. The way that you are expressing them causes any good point you make to get lost in the mess of hostility and insults. People will listen less to anything of value you have to add because of the way you're presenting it. This isn't meant to be an insult, just honest feedback. Tone down the flames and you'll be surprised at how receptive people are.

abuelo wrote:

I honestly don't know how you have so much energy to keep playing something you clearly hate. I've been on a few online forums in my time and you are one of the most insufferable posters I've seen on any one of them.

I get the idea of what you are saying.

I don't hate the game. I hate the devs. For reasons like the one I've mentioned.

I get the point, this is annoying. But I just feel that I have to get this off my chest. Every time I see the devs do something, many of us get screwed, and it just makes me mad that none of those changes involve a respec system.

I know I know, this is not the best way to go about it. But I just feel like I just have to get my point across somehow.

Unknown

It's amazing how another whiner would rather shout and troll a whiner like me rather than just put me on the ignore list.

I guess he enjoys it more than he admits.