Winfinite Users - please respond within!

Unknown

Hello, as we all know Winfinite is getting nerfed.

D3 felt winfinite was too powerful and has decided to nerf its parts.

I'd like to ask, specifically, winfinite users, what do you think? Is winfinite too powerful? How does it perform in PVE? In PVP? Because to my knowledge there are certain PVE and PVP kings and Winfinite isn't one of them.

PS: I haven't used winfinite, but I am a big MagStormEye user. I personally believe this nerf overly hurts 2* players and MagStorm players and they should find some other way(read: fix Mystique) to nerf the combo.

Unknown

Winfinite ain't OP but it would be with Prof. X.
So either nerf a new 4* or Winfinite, although I don't understand why they needed to change Mistique if mnmags is already nerfed out of this combo.

rixmith

Winfinite has no use in PvP, and I only use it against very tough all-goon PvE nodes. It feels like an exploit to me so I won't really be sad to see it go.

I'm a contrarian on the move for 2* players, I think they will actually be helped by the Magneto change. Going from 5 blue to 3 blue will mean the team will likely need to make only one more blue match to get a Wind Storm, and can still trigger Speed Shot pretty easily. Getting the extra red however will make Hawkeye's and Magneto's reds that much easier, and they are both pretty good 2* powers. You just have to have the patience to not use them until the board doesn't have any red matches sitting there so your countdowns survive.

I'm more concerned about the change to Mystique's Blue, since unlike the Magneto change, there isn't any new goody to balance out the nerf of the change.

SnowcaTT

Miles posted the other day it gets boring. They also said the same thing about True Healing.

I guess it's boring when players can continue to play, since their roster took limited damage. I liked both True Healing and winfinite (which was worthless in PVP's). Getting rid of Winfinite, X-force+4hor, and MMags + Storm - these are ways that teams could deal with the crazy pve scaling. Getting rid of all three at once and they need to scale that back.

If players enjoy having rosters that don't die, but Devs think players are to bored using them for a long time, how about a nice compromise: all characters are healed to full at the end of every match. Devs have said they don't sell health packs, so it won't hurt them there. Problems solved!

Unknown

I also agree that this hurts people who overly relied on CStorm/MNMags to play the game, but overall it's a good balance to the character whose ability was always overpowered, and it'll increase his compatibility with any red user. Mystique's ability is arguably underpowered in a vacuum and they are making it even more underpowered because MNMags ability was so overpowered.

Magstique was definitely too good on offense. A Magstique team with full boosts could take on a X-Force/166 team and win > 50%.

Unknown

rixmith wrote:

Winfinite has no use in PvP, and I only use it against very tough all-goon PvE nodes. It feels like an exploit to me so I won't really be sad to see it go.

I'm a contrarian on the move for 2* players, I think they will actually be helped by the Magneto change. Going from 5 blue to 3 blue will mean the team will likely need to make only one more blue match to get a Wind Storm, and can still trigger Speed Shot pretty easily. Getting the extra red however will make Hawkeye's and Magneto's reds that much easier, and they are both pretty good 2* powers. You just have to have the patience to not use them until the board doesn't have any red matches sitting there so your countdowns survive.

I'm more concerned about the change to Mystique's Blue, since unlike the Magneto change, there isn't any new goody to balance out the nerf of the change.

But the thing is...Mag is very bad without . His blue is laughable, and his red is kinda...sorta..conditional.

The only hope I see for Mag is Mag/Storm/Rag now.

Polarity shift on its own doesn't do much - it really only feeds into wind storm(or 3*Mag if that would be possible)


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Also, if it's not winning in PVP, then what's the big deal? Falcon and Cap run circles around goons, are they getting nerfed next as well?

fmftint

I've used it with mixed results, always requires purple/blue boosts, is painfully slow.
I've had better results with Patch/Hood/Loki, more reliable, faster

Unknown

I dunno about over powered. It relies on a character with 4000 health and another one with 5150 health. It has about an 80% success rate against teams that can tear them to shreds if they get 5 turns, which I'm not sure is a better average than any other team. Non purple boards screw it over, and bad Infiltration screw it over as well. I really didn't think they were going to do anything about it.

MNM and anyone that uses blue were always a good combo. MNM and Daredevil can keep 2 enemies stunned for a long long time, MNM and Dr Doom can get Demons on the field that much faster (and combo a good number of crit tiles), MNM and Nick Fury can drop a 10k health player on turn 4ish with Demolitoin. He created blue AP, of course he was useful. It's not Magneto's fault if someone else uses blue AP to create black or purple AP. This is what happens when they stray from their defined power colors.

The easiest fix to keep the characters similar to what they were before, which is no where near broken or over powered but just gimmicky, is to either swap Mistiques and so that Infiltration is a purple ability or to swap MNM to . I dunno why they feel they need to depower characters that aren't even that useful beyond their one trick.

Unknown

100% useless in PVP. It isn't fast and will get slaughtered on defense.

In PVE, it is strong if you don't get purple screwed.

If it is a purple barren board, the team dies very very quickly.

I didn't think it was OP because it was one of the very few things making PVE tolerable. Without it, all I have is hulk bombing against those 20K,20K,20K teams that they throw you up against.

I personally think it will still be usable. But man...talk about a stupid thing to focus on.

I guess they did it mainly because of Professor X.

I just wish they didn't release these gimmick characters that do nothing else and then nerf a great strat (not to mention the 2 star team of Mags/Storm) just for this one useless 4 star.

GuntherBlobel

As others have said, it's not about power. It's about obviating one the core mechanics of the game. You get a turn, then the AI gets a turn. Infinite combos obviously break that fundamental mechanic. On the forum, "broken" is used to describe just about anything annoying, but infinite turns really deserve the term "broken." From a game development perspective, it's a big no-no.

I've seen at least 4 infinite combos in the game to date and they've all been removed in time. i think everyone "knew" that. That's why some people were excited to find evidence that the Devs were aware of it and not openly discouraging it. Well, now we know the whole story. If you find one with gsBW and Prof X: don't get attached.

turul

There are plenty of storm based, and other infinity teams though.
Winfinite just had the most board control/most quick

konannfriends

turul wrote:

There are plenty of storm based, and other infinity teams though.
Winfinite just had the most board control/most quick

you can still blow through matches with wind storm. its just kinds take maybe one more turn.... which in fact is a huge nerf.. but there should be a new two star coming so i expect he/she will be a good one

Unknown

GuntherBlobel wrote:

As others have said, it's not about power. It's about obviating one the core mechanics of the game. You get a turn, then the AI gets a turn. Infinite combos obviously break that fundamental mechanic. On the forum, "broken" is used to describe just about anything annoying, but infinite turns really deserve the term "broken." From a game development perspective, it's a big no-no.

I've seen at least 4 infinite combos in the game to date and they've all been removed in time. i think everyone "knew" that. That's why some people were excited to find evidence that the Devs were aware of it and not openly discouraging it. Well, now we know the whole story. If you find one with gsBW and Prof X: don't get attached.

If this is true, why would they include extra turns thru match 5s? Cmon. You can get extra turns. Both players and AI have done so for a long, long time.

Take MTG for example - you can get extra turns, even go infinite if you invest enough

1*BW gives extra turn

Venom gives extra turn

Unknown

turul wrote:

There are plenty of storm based, and other infinity teams though.
Winfinite just had the most board control/most quick

what are other infinite teams? You can also PM me...I need another so I can do Gauntlet....

GuntherBlobel

turul wrote:

There are plenty of storm based, and other infinity teams though.
Winfinite just had the most board control/most quick

I'm interested in seeing people post in your thread, because I'd like to see them. I've certainly used Storm to end the game in a series of stun locks, but it never generated more AP than it used. How long could Storm stunlock a team if she did 0 damage? There were some combos in the game that were like perpetual motion machines... continually netting AP... and that's a little different.

The one post to your thread just showed someone getting lucky crits to keep his turn going. I wish I had made a video of Technopathic Strike --> Murderous Aim --> Cold Snap (environmental power) back in the day, because that think could go on forever. Funny how environmental powers aren't a part of the game anymore.

Unknown

I don't know who the typical third is for winfinite, but I was trying it out earlier with Mohawk Storm and the team has more reach than it should. It certainly feels reminiscent of old CMags; you take some damage spooling up, but at some point fairly early on you start taking all the turns. It's degenerate, and they have to stop it.

That being said, I wish they'd reconsider the Mystique changes. Hamstringing MNMags will more than stop the shenanigans.

Unknown

Moon 17 wrote:

I don't know who the typical third is for winfinite, but I was trying it out earlier with Mohawk Storm and the team has more reach than it should. It certainly feels reminiscent of old CMags; you take some damage spooling up, but at some point fairly early on you start taking all the turns. It's degenerate, and they have to stop it.

That being said, I wish they'd reconsider the Mystique changes. Hamstringing MNMags will more than stop the shenanigans.

Well, 3*Storm is PVE Queen combined w/ other 2 so...

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But why do we need to attack 2*Mag? Can't we just change Mystique?

I just don't seee the benefit in shafting 2* players because there's a combo in PVE that's messed up.

And especially since people are saying this doesn't matter in PVP, who cares? PVE turns into kill the enemy in 2 turns or get 1 shot anyway. We NEED 'degenerate' combos in PVE because PVE IS DEGENERATE!

dkffiv

Moon 17 wrote:

I don't know who the typical third is for winfinite, but I was trying it out earlier with Mohawk Storm and the team has more reach than it should. It certainly feels reminiscent of old CMags; you take some damage spooling up, but at some point fairly early on you start taking all the turns. It's degenerate, and they have to stop it.

That being said, I wish they'd reconsider the Mystique changes. Hamstringing MNMags will more than stop the shenanigans.

Luke Cage is usually the third. I don't view winfinite as a good combo and only use it if my main team is dead or when time doesn't matter (potentially in Gauntlet). The lowered match damage scaling has made him less necessary but against 395's Mystique or Mag would die from match damage before the combo got rolling if the board was bad. Luke Cage's auto protect tile helped keep them alive and his yellow is a great AP dump. His black is pretty good too if you end up with 18+ from infiltrates.

turul

raisinbman wrote:

turul wrote:

There are plenty of storm based, and other infinity teams though.
Winfinite just had the most board control/most quick

what are other infinite teams? You can also PM me...I need another so I can do Gauntlet....

AnyStorm / AnyThor / Loki
Storm3 / Loki / Mistique
AnyStorm / GSBW / *
Storm2 / NewRagnarok / Loki
NewRags / Mystique / Loki
Storm2 / NewMagneto2 / Rags
Storm / Cyclops / NewRags

lesser infinites can be made with IW

Unknown

raisinbman wrote:

And especially since people are saying this doesn't matter in PVP, who cares? PVE turns into kill the enemy in 2 turns or get 1 shot anyway. We NEED 'degenerate' combos in PVE because PVE IS DEGENERATE!

This is basically the reason why I thought it would never get changed. 395 scaling intially went in to combat Spiderman and C.Mags infinite turn combos. You kill stuff without taking any damage, have some nice fat 395 HP walls to climb. Except then they fixed Spiderman, and then they fixed C.Mags, and yet the scaling remains. How exactly do you expect us to beat an Ares/Sniper/Sniper node by turn 5 without some kind of broken combo mechanic?

GuntherBlobel

turul wrote:

raisinbman wrote:

turul wrote:

There are plenty of storm based, and other infinity teams though.
Winfinite just had the most board control/most quick

what are other infinite teams? You can also PM me...I need another so I can do Gauntlet....

AnyStorm / AnyThor / Loki
Storm3 / Loki / Mistique
AnyStorm / GSBW / *
Storm2 / NewRagnarok / Loki
NewRags / Mystique / Loki
Storm2 / NewMagneto2 / Rags
Storm / Cyclops / NewRags

lesser infinites can be made with IW

That's an infinite combo? Here's an infinite combo:
1* Hawkeye / Thorned Rose

Earn 7 AP by matching tiles and gain infinite amount of AP without ever moving the board again, no matter what the board looks like. Winfinite was far closer to this than any of your ideas, as far as I can tell.

Storm + green charged tiles will be interesting though.