How well should a 2* roster do in PvP?

Unknown

EpicBeastmode wrote:

papa07 wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Should get top 100 every single pvp. If you can't sprint and battle at end of event, gotta put up a shield.

This would be true only if 80% of the playerbase was less than 94s. Try to remember what it was like to be at the level of the person asking the question.

I was in their shoes not long ago. My time with a maxed out xforce is very small, maybe a couple of months. Before that I had a useable sentry for maybe a month before he got nerfed so I was in 2 star land just 3 months ago. I practically skipped the 3 star transition because after sentry got nerfed, I saw where the game was headed and focused everything on boosting the xforce I had. So I was just in their shoes not long ago. And I was placing pretty much top 25 with my 2* rosters which consisted mostly of mnmags and storm and when they got beat up I would throw in ares and obw for the stretch run and more difficult opponents...been doing that since season 1. So I don't buy all of this game is different now so it is harder, sorry it's just too easy to get top 100. If you can't do it, go to the tips and guide section and try to take in as much as you can. Surely TGT and xforce has changed the wall and it's harder at a certain point...but don't think sentry was any easier, it was a race to kill him before world rupture went off/supernova/or sacrifice cause the match would be over pretty quick. This new wall has a lot higher hit points but as I stated top 100 should be easily attainable, I could see top 50 or top 25 being a lot more difficult.

One added note, I don't know why my competition was more on par with my roster, but I had always thought because I literally had not leveled anyone except for 4/5 core covers that kept my placement with opponents more...reasonable. Even now I only have 3 maxed out 3 stars and xforce. I don't hit the wall until probably 600 which is comfortably in top100.

Let me lay out a few assumptions based on what I see in PvP.

1. When I make a late push (60 to 90 minutes left), I move into the top100 around 575-600, so to finish top100 you likely need around 600-650.
2. My defensive team is a cover maxed 3stars at 138 (usually Hood or 3Thor) and a cover maxed XF at 153. My equilibrium point is between 575-625.
3. When I am climbing, I find 94s that are worth more than 25 points when I am in the 300s and 400s. Once I get to 500, those teams are always less than 25 points.

Based on those assumptions, the equilibrium point for 94s is no more than 450. This means that when making a push at the end of the event or before a shield, they need to climb a net 150-200 points to make it to the top100. While that may happen occasionally, it is a very tough challenge event in and event out. Personally, I end up 50-150 points above my equilibrium point on my push, depending on how smoothly it goes and how lucky I am.

Additionally, the wall is much worse now than it was 3 months ago when you were a 2star. Then the wall was Sentry + Hood/Daken. Now it is XF + 4Thor. That is 10,000 more health to defeat, as well as 4 colors to defend rather than 2 (or only 1 with oBW). 26k in health while denying black, green, red, and blue is nearly impossible for a 2star roster where Sentry was at least manageable.

Finally, to brag that you were placing in the top25 months ago with a 2star roster is irrelevant to today's game. That was before 4Thor was dominant, before time slices, and before shield cooldowns were introduced. When I have pushed for top25 during the past two seasons, it usually takes about 850 to get to that point. Do you really think that you would be able to reach 850 with a 2star roster today?

thanos8587

to papa07:

thank you for a well thought out and rational post. my experiences are precisely in line with your observations and your numbers are right on the money. i would bet the devs would back you up if they released their own stats.

now im off to go revel in the easymode that is dpd and get all my free covers handed to me.

Unknown

papa07 wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

papa07 wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

Should get top 100 every single pvp. If you can't sprint and battle at end of event, gotta put up a shield.

This would be true only if 80% of the playerbase was less than 94s. Try to remember what it was like to be at the level of the person asking the question.

I was in their shoes not long ago. My time with a maxed out xforce is very small, maybe a couple of months. Before that I had a useable sentry for maybe a month before he got nerfed so I was in 2 star land just 3 months ago. I practically skipped the 3 star transition because after sentry got nerfed, I saw where the game was headed and focused everything on boosting the xforce I had. So I was just in their shoes not long ago. And I was placing pretty much top 25 with my 2* rosters which consisted mostly of mnmags and storm and when they got beat up I would throw in ares and obw for the stretch run and more difficult opponents...been doing that since season 1. So I don't buy all of this game is different now so it is harder, sorry it's just too easy to get top 100. If you can't do it, go to the tips and guide section and try to take in as much as you can. Surely TGT and xforce has changed the wall and it's harder at a certain point...but don't think sentry was any easier, it was a race to kill him before world rupture went off/supernova/or sacrifice cause the match would be over pretty quick. This new wall has a lot higher hit points but as I stated top 100 should be easily attainable, I could see top 50 or top 25 being a lot more difficult.

One added note, I don't know why my competition was more on par with my roster, but I had always thought because I literally had not leveled anyone except for 4/5 core covers that kept my placement with opponents more...reasonable. Even now I only have 3 maxed out 3 stars and xforce. I don't hit the wall until probably 600 which is comfortably in top100.

Let me lay out a few assumptions based on what I see in PvP.

1. When I make a late push (60 to 90 minutes left), I move into the top100 around 575-600, so to finish top100 you likely need around 600-650.
2. My defensive team is a cover maxed 3stars at 138 (usually Hood or 3Thor) and a cover maxed XF at 153. My equilibrium point is between 575-625.
3. When I am climbing, I find 94s that are worth more than 25 points when I am in the 300s and 400s. Once I get to 500, those teams are always less than 25 points.

Based on those assumptions, the equilibrium point for 94s is no more than 450. This means that when making a push at the end of the event or before a shield, they need to climb a net 150-200 points to make it to the top100. While that may happen occasionally, it is a very tough challenge event in and event out. Personally, I end up 50-150 points above my equilibrium point on my push, depending on how smoothly it goes and how lucky I am.

Additionally, the wall is much worse now than it was 3 months ago when you were a 2star. Then the wall was Sentry + Hood/Daken. Now it is XF + 4Thor. That is 10,000 more health to defeat, as well as 4 colors to defend rather than 2 (or only 1 with oBW). 26k in health while denying black, green, red, and blue is nearly impossible for a 2star roster where Sentry was at least manageable.

Finally, to brag that you were placing in the top25 months ago with a 2star roster is irrelevant to today's game. That was before 4Thor was dominant, before time slices, and before shield cooldowns were introduced. When I have pushed for top25 during the past two seasons, it usually takes about 850 to get to that point. Do you really think that you would be able to reach 850 with a 2star roster today?

1. Not bragging about anything, telling you what it was.
2. Your points needed is what I would experience, and I would push at the end of an event, I would almost always finish 700ish from what I remember but I had to use shields to maintain it because pushing at the end of an event sucks.
3. the point isn't top25 its top 100 as I stated. Pushing or using shields it should be fairly easy.
4. If I didn't use shields now I would not finish top25 unless I probably pushed at the end. So if players aren't accustomed to using shields now, when they finally get the devs to hand them covers left and right, they still won't place high unless they shield.
5. I spent probably $20 every two weeks on HP during my 2 star days to fuel my shields for top25. Sooooo again, the game as its setup provides you with the tools to place top 100 every event with a 2* roster...you just gotta pay for it.

Unknown

EpicBeastmode wrote:

5. I spent probably $20 every two weeks on HP during my 2 star days to fuel my shields for top25. Sooooo again, the game as its setup provides you with the tools to place top 100 every event with a 2* roster...you just gotta pay for it.

If you are going to share your personal experience and use it to demonstrate how easy it is for certain rosters to place well, to leave off the fact that you were an ATM for D3 is extremely disingenuous advice.

There is nothing wrong with buying your way through transition - it is an option provided in the game and somebody has to pay the bills to keep the servers running (thank you for that). However, most people looking for advice on the forums are looking for more than spend $10 a week to succeed. They are looking for better ways to use their time and earned resources to improve their game experience.

Personally speaking, I play mobile games for the journey, not the destination. Once I reach the end game, I usually find that it is time to move to a new game.

Unknown

papa07 wrote:

EpicBeastmode wrote:

5. I spent probably $20 every two weeks on HP during my 2 star days to fuel my shields for top25. Sooooo again, the game as its setup provides you with the tools to place top 100 every event with a 2* roster...you just gotta pay for it.

If you are going to share your personal experience and use it to demonstrate how easy it is for certain rosters to place well, to leave off the fact that you were an ATM for D3 is extremely disingenuous advice.

There is nothing wrong with buying your way through transition - it is an option provided in the game and somebody has to pay the bills to keep the servers running (thank you for that). However, most people looking for advice on the forums are looking for more than spend $10 a week to succeed. They are looking for better ways to use their time and earned resources to improve their game experience.

Personally speaking, I play mobile games for the journey, not the destination. Once I reach the end game, I usually find that it is time to move to a new game.

Lol what? Okay I didn't realize $40 a month was high rolling but to each his own. And how did I buy my transition? By purchasing the shielding mechanism to prevent point loss? Took me a lot of events to get all those covers and I still couldn't level them so I don't really understand why you think I bought my way to the finish line. So basically you guys won't be happy until I write:

"You can't place anywhere at all with a 2* roster, don't even bother trying ,collect your 300 point token and call it a day. Devs need to change up this game drastically or else everyone will quit."

i have always been in favor of changes such as different events for 2* players so don't think I am discounting changes that may help, but some of you act like its impossible whereas I take the approach of trying to figure out a means to get to the ends I am trying to get to. Look at these top alliances coordinating helping each other out. Lots of different ways to do it. So this has been beaten to death, that's my opinion, take it or leave it.

Tarheelmax

In my opinion, a 2* team should be able to place top 100 between 75% and 90% of the time.

Background on me: until about 3 PVPs ago, I only used maxed 2*s. I don't have bullseye, hawkeye, moonstone or capt America. Now I can use level 94 grocket and luke cage. I am 100% FTP.

Over the past 2 seasons, I have missed out on top 100 probably 5 times. Once I was out of town, had no time to play and jumped in with 20 minutes left. Ended up around 120. One time I got distracted in the last 10 minutes and couldn't stormneto my way into the top 100. I was about 105. One time I lost a couple times due to bad boards and had tobokay too late into the event and got rocked by top players climbing. Other times, I was probably just in bad brackets.

The issue for 2* teams is that you can't just jump in and start playing with no strategy. If you pre join and Rush to 400 points, you will get killed by ***s making their climb.

All it really takes is good planning and a 3 hour shield at the end. (I failed to mention, I ise a 3 hour shield just inside of 3 hours when I hit a safe points spot). And before anyone knocks me for using a shield, if you get to 575, you have made 50 HP in progression and you get 25 HP for top 100, so you come out even.

PeterGibbons316

EpicBeastmode wrote:

i have always been in favor of changes such as different events for 2* players so don't think I am discounting changes that may help, but some of you act like its impossible whereas I take the approach of trying to figure out a means to get to the ends I am trying to get to. Look at these top alliances coordinating helping each other out. Lots of different ways to do it. So this has been beaten to death, that's my opinion, take it or leave it.

Look, I appreciate your input, but bragging about how you "easily" (I wouldn't call spending $40/month on shields "easy", but whatever) placed in the top 100 every event 2 months ago doesn't really help those of us with 2* rosters finish in the top 100 now.


So I really wanted that cover from this last event and I took a lot of the advice in this thread to help me get it. I joined with about 2.5 hours left in the event, and I was #450. So I maybe had my work cut out for me a little. I managed to get up to ~560 and figured I could get one more win in to bump me over 575 and then shield. Naturally I got attacked during that one and lost 58 points. So back to the grind. I got back to 547 and found a 33 pt team that I boosted and killed quickly to put me at 580. Shielded for the last 30 minutes, and placed 85th.

My experience is almost exactly what papa07 described, and is pretty consistent for most PvP events I play - around 500 pts or so the 2* rosters drop off and it's 3* from there on. So in general - a 2* roster should be able to get to 500 pretty easily, but usually top 100 is closer to 600. So finishing top 100 requires a bit of luck in shield/grind timing to get from 500-600 without losing more points than you earn.

Tarheelmax

Again, as I said above (and knowing from very recent experience), a 2* roster can place top 100 at least 75% of the time as long as you have a good strategy and are willing to use a 3 hour shield (meaning you net 0 HP for the event).

And by strategy I do not mean join super late. It can work, but I don't view it as a predicable strategy.

PeterGibbons316

Tarheelmax wrote:

Again, as I said above (and knowing from very recent experience), a 2* roster can place top 100 at least 75% of the time as long as you have a good strategy and are willing to use a 3 hour shield (meaning you net 0 HP for the event).

And by strategy I do not mean join super late. It can work, but I don't view it as a predicable strategy.

Yes, I think I will use your strategy of shielding just after 3 hours from the end of the event. So I'll join maybe 4.5-5 hour before the event ends, and grind for a couple hours before shielding. Usually I can get to 500 points in about 90 minutes, so hopefully with this method I can get closer to that 600 mark a little more reliably, without having to worry about so many people attacking me doing their final push right before the event ends.

Unknown

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Tarheelmax wrote:

Again, as I said above (and knowing from very recent experience), a 2* roster can place top 100 at least 75% of the time as long as you have a good strategy and are willing to use a 3 hour shield (meaning you net 0 HP for the event).

And by strategy I do not mean join super late. It can work, but I don't view it as a predicable strategy.

Yes, I think I will use your strategy of shielding just after 3 hours from the end of the event. So I'll join maybe 4.5-5 hour before the event ends, and grind for a couple hours before shielding. Usually I can get to 500 points in about 90 minutes, so hopefully with this method I can get closer to that 600 mark a little more reliably, without having to worry about so many people attacking me doing their final push right before the event ends.

Warning: you will probably be attacked right before the 3 hour mark so you need to expect a couple more matched than you think you will need before shielding.

Unknown

A 2* roster in general should fetch around 400-500 points. After that you hit the high level 3* wall and it should be impossible to climb much more.
Enter mnmags+cstorm. If you follow the pattern people use with 3* and 4*s of climbing until you run out of health packs, and hopping with this team, you should get up to and sometimes over 700 points. I've seen people running the combo around 850-900 a couple times, but I don't know how they got there.

Unknown

ark123 wrote:

A 2* roster in general should fetch around 400-500 points. After that you hit the high level 3* wall and it should be impossible to climb much more.
Enter mnmags+cstorm. If you follow the pattern people use with 3* and 4*s of climbing until you run out of health packs, and hopping with this team, you should get up to and sometimes over 700 points. I've seen people running the combo around 850-900 a couple times, but I don't know how they got there.

I must be doing something wrong then, because I'm starting to run into teams with high levelled 3*s at around the 280 point mark pretty consistently. I know this because I wanted to see how far I can go with Daken/Wolverine (both between 85-88 Lvls now) + featured Hood and get the Heroic token as the 300 point reward.

In Unholy Outlaw I am now at 284 points and all I get are unwinnable matches. PvP is not worth it for a 2* roster.

For all you people who say it's possible, I'd like to know how you do it. Maybe try to use an exclusive 2* roster for the next PvP and see for yourself what it's like at the moment.

Been hit for -8 points, am now at 276. Current possible matches (I already skipped a few times):

Team 1: Hood (Lvl 122), 2* Magneto (Lvl 94), X-Force (lol) at Lvl 131
Team 2: Hood (Lvl 60), Ragnarok (Lvl 102), Patch (Lvl 127)
Team 3: Hood (Lvl 60), OBW (Lvl 94), 3* Captain America (Lvl 140)

This has been pretty consistent so far every time I tried to get the 300 point token reward in a PvP. I've given up on PvP and am now focusing exclusively on PvE, because there I usually manage Top 20 at least.

thanos8587

Tripwire wrote:

For all you people who say it's possible, I'd like to know how you do it. Maybe try to use an exclusive 2* roster for the next PvP and see for yourself what it's like at the moment.

it is difficult, no doubt. you can climb with just about any full 2* roster to above 300+, i think everyone agrees. beyond that many are relying on mag/storm, probably boosting at least blue/purple and many times with an all color boost as well. this means a turn 1 purple match turns into a turn two polarity shift and wind storm. from there you can sometimes snowball and beat many teams even those at a much higher level than 94. if you skip into other 94 teams or even 120-130 level transition teams you can often be scoring 30+ point matches. from even a 400 starting point, 5 quick matches can put you at 550ish, at which point you shield. if you do time this right on the last day you then have your shield expire and make another mini climb into the point where you are under three hours and you can shield the balance of the event at somewhere just over 600, which should get you a top 100.

is it doable, yes, is it a pain, yes, is it worth it for three extra covers a week, you decide. with dpd and the increasing inflow of covers from there, i say no. way too grindy/boring for my taste. with pve now having 8 hour timers its way less grindy and the progression and placement covers and sub-event prizes are virtually guaranteed.

Unknown

The unshielded equilibrium for a 2* team is somewhere in the region of 400-450. I think i'm right in saying you are still the the period of diminished losses at that point or at least only just moving out of it which contributes to it being that equilibrium point.

What I mean by diminished losses is someone hits you and they gain, say 30 points but you only lose 20. The lower your score is the less you lose as a proportion of what ppl are gaining off of you.

Now scoring above that equilibrium point is no different for a 2* team than it is for a 3* or 4* team ending above their equilibrium point. It involves being able to gain points and protecting them once you get them. If you want more points you're looking at climbing late and shielding or hopping much as vets scoring 1k do to end above their equilibrium points.

The main trouble is, they are in T100 alliances, getting all the HP progressions and getting 100Hp for placement whereas transitioners are not in t100 alliances, are not getting the full HP progressions and are aiming for 25 or maybe 50HP for placement. So whereas I just throw up a 8hr shield without thinking about it, it's a more significant investment for a 2* team. So, IMO, only do that for rewards that you feel will genuinely improve your roster.

Now, if the thread title were more of an in principal rather than in practice kind of question then I would answer "how well should a 2* roster do in PvP?" with "well enough to get 3*s useable in a reasonable time frame". The trouble is, 2*s are so insanely easy to get now (I remember when ppl were using REAL money to buy OBW covers because it was a real issue with their progression) that EVERYONE who isn't a vet seems to be a "transitioning player". So you're all scrapping over the same prizes in a big lump. Maybe giving ppl what they wanted in a much easier 2* transition has proven to be something of an issue?

Tarheelmax

Ok, I didn't really want to give out my strategy, since I seem to be in the minority that sees no issues with a 2* roster hitting top 100, but i guess active forumites deserve to know.

First off, there isn't a ton of room for error. So to start, you need a diverse, maxed 2* roster. I use all of the following: daken/wolvie for initial climb, ares/thor and OBW as my defensive team, stormneto as a last resort at the final push for the last few points.

1. I join between 24 and 20 hour left. Until about 8 hours left, I climb until I am a little outside the top 100. After that, I play only as needed to stay right outside top 100. I do not pass 400 points. When I get inside 8 hours, probably 7 or less, but not near 3 hours, I will push a bit higher, but stay below 500. During this push ONLY use your defensive team.

Then with about 3 hours 45 minutes, I push using my defensive team as high as possible. I'll use about 3 health packs on them. Then as I get very close to the 3 hour mark, I'll switch to my daken/wolvie team and stormneto team depending on the match up. I use boosts if necessary. Then, if I hit 575 and am around 50th, I shield immediatlu (as long as I am at 3 hours or less). If I am not near 50th, I try to push a bit more. Around 50th is the safe spot.

If you have all the guys I mentioned maxed, and you can use all 5 health packs, plus are willing to spend maybe 400 ISO on blurple boosts, then top 100 should happen at least 75% of the time. If not, then the success percentage starts dropping exponentially as you miss more of those factors.

One point on a post above - having wolvie daken (or any of the core team under 94 severely limits you). I may skip a 94 ares/thor/OBW team if the points are low. But you will be retaliated against if it's not that combo.

TLCstormz

.......what do you people NOT understand about "the game is not as easy / friendly / consumer luck based as it used to be"???????

Like, seriously? ****? The pride in these kinds of threads is always so disgusting.

Unknown

bonfire01 wrote:

The unshielded equilibrium for a 2* team is somewhere in the region of 400-450. I think i'm right in saying you are still the the period of diminished losses at that point or at least only just moving out of it which contributes to it being that equilibrium point.

After DDQ introduction it's closer to 325-350.

Over the last few months it's been like so: (shield cooldowns, 8-hour pve).
No longer can I hit 800 with a 2* team.
No longer can I hit 600 with a 2* team.
I can just barely hit 500 with a 2* team, with luck and boosts.
There are some days it's a struggle to reach 400.
However, Top 100 is now closer to 525, and can usually be reached; just with great struggle, boosts, and shields.
If I see a 40 point match when I'm around 450+ sometimes I will boost and use Magstique, with a second match lined up that can be easily beaten by Wolverine/Daken.

My strategy is pretty similar to Tarheelmax, except using OBW+Ares/Thor occasionally.

Unknown

PeterGibbons316 wrote:

Yes, I think I will use your strategy of shielding just after 3 hours from the end of the event. So I'll join maybe 4.5-5 hour before the event ends, and grind for a couple hours before shielding. Usually I can get to 500 points in about 90 minutes, so hopefully with this method I can get closer to that 600 mark a little more reliably, without having to worry about so many people attacking me doing their final push right before the event ends.

bonfire01 wrote:

The main trouble is, they are in T100 alliances, getting all the HP progressions and getting 100Hp for placement whereas transitioners are not in t100 alliances, are not getting the full HP progressions and are aiming for 25 or maybe 50HP for placement. So whereas I just throw up a 8hr shield without thinking about it, it's a more significant investment for a 2* team. So, IMO, only do that for rewards that you feel will genuinely improve your roster.

This right here. Make sure to only shield for covers you really need. Take a look at the rankings and look at maybe the top 15 3star characters and focus on those events. Look for BP, Blade, Cage, LCap, Daken, Deadpool, Doom, Hood, Hulk, Loki, Mags, Thor, Patch. Those are 13 good ones to focus on. At this point, only shield for the characters worth shielding for. Save your HP for roster spots during other events.

Unknown

my .02$...

With my 2* roster and all of my 3*'s capable being soft-capped at lvl 94 for now, I can occasionally get top 100 but it's less than 1/2 the time. Before some of the changes that were made a couple of months ago, I could do it about 75% of the time so I definitely noticed a difference recently.

Once I break the 400 pt barrier ( a minimum for me to try since I could always use the 25hp), I start to hit "the wall" and have to make the decision to push or not. Most brackets I've been in have gotten me in the top 200 but not much better.

I did push during the Loki pvp to get the 500 pt 3* HT but I had to shield twice and as soon as I got it, I was crushed for 200 pts within 30 minutes. I didn't shield after hitting 500 because I was still outside the top 100 and had exhausted health packs and my willingness to spend more HP. Sure I could use the hood cover but it was no guarantee that I would even get close...

I did get top 100 in the hood event for the red sentry cover. finished with 420 pts, used 1 shield and had to break and win two matches with 4 minutes to go, but I'm usually not in a position to get close with most of the pvp events...

Unknown

I've broken the Top100 only a couple of times with my 94 line-up and once was with the use of a Shield, but then again I've also used a Shield and just had enough other players accumulate points to still knock me out of the Top100 (102nd). When I first joined PVP I assume that the MMR stuck me in a couple of newbie brackets, which allowed me a fighting chance. But in the last two months its been pretty much, 'Forget about it'. Best I've placed since I think was 114th.

I can break the 400 point mark consistently, 500 points sometimes with luck.