Don't really feel like playing until thor/wolv get nerfed

Unknown

Crazyeyeskiller wrote:

Nerf should only be a very last resort when all other attempts at balancing have failed.

Not much they can do, other than nerf, to balance the game when they gave abilities with a cost of 2 or 3. It was obvious to me since the first time I played against Ragnarok or Spiderman.

Unknown

I agree, but I'm hoping for a "redesign" than a "nerf". Rags' nerf was lazy. And while I hate Rags so I couldn't care less, I do like Thor. Whatever the change is, I'll still use Thor regardless from time to time.

Unknown

I find it hard to believe that wolverine's strike tiles add that much damage to make a difference in the Divine Champions tournament. Every time I've played against a team with wolverine, he's never been able to put out more than 1 strike tile, and said strike tile somehow tends to get matched by the AI in the same turn in which it was played.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

I agree, but I'm hoping for a "redesign" than a "nerf". Rags' nerf was lazy. And while I hate Rags so I couldn't care less, I do like Thor. Whatever the change is, I'll still use Thor regardless from time to time.

Yep, I think the term nerf gets thrown around haphazardly, and tends to bring out an over-reaction from the player base. A re-balance doesn't necessarily mean that a character will be nerfed, even if it's lessening the power of that character. The term definitely applied to the Rag changes, but we won't know what this will look like until it gets announced.

Unknown

walkyourpath wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

I agree, but I'm hoping for a "redesign" than a "nerf". Rags' nerf was lazy. And while I hate Rags so I couldn't care less, I do like Thor. Whatever the change is, I'll still use Thor regardless from time to time.

Yep, I think the term nerf gets thrown around haphazardly, and tends to bring out an over-reaction from the player base. A re-balance doesn't necessarily mean that a character will be nerfed, even if it's lessening the power of that character. The term definitely applied to the Rag changes, but we won't know what this will look like until it gets announced.

Agreed. Rags definitely needed some retuning, but he got beat so bad with the nerfbat it should have been caught on video. Hopefully future changes to other characters won't be carried out like this. I still think Rags should be re-evaluated by D3 to make him more functional. Previously, I always felt Rags was my idea of a 4* character while Thor was a 3*. Time will tell.

Unknown

I've never played a game before where so many users are clamoring for a drawer full of butter knives.

Is the goal of this game for every character to be about as effective as Moonstone?

Unknown

Thor and Wolverine are the only reason I still play this game.
When they'll be gone, and you'll need to pump 500+k ISO into uninteresting *** characters to achieve similar results, you'll miss them too.
They should buff everyone else, not nerf them IMHO.

Unknown

Moonstone is pretty cool minus her black.

Unknown

ihearthawthats wrote:

Moonstone is pretty cool minus her black.

Yea, Moonstone is okay, but that's only because there are characters like Bagman, Modern Hawkeye, Bullseye etc that are poorly concieved. She only stands out because the others are so bad/unusable.

Also, Moonstone only got that way because they had to rework her to make her more effective (which they should be doing to ALL the unused characters instead of nerfing the popular ones).

Unknown

Psychosocial wrote:

They should buff everyone else, not nerf them IMHO.

It's exactly the same result

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

I've never played a game before where so many users are clamoring for a drawer full of butter knives.

Is the goal of this game for every character to be about as effective as Moonstone?

I'm not sure people really want a load of butter knives (love the analogy lol), rather they are sick of fighting the same opponents.

I don't like fighting Ragnarok - nerf him!

I don't like fighting Thor - nerf him!

etc etc

I wonder how many players will be left when the threads start for:

I don't like fighting Bagman - nerf him!



Pretty sure most people would rather see characters be improved rather than nerfed, but the fights were getting quicker and quicker - not the intention of the devs apparently...

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

ihearthawthats wrote:

Moonstone is pretty cool minus her black.

Yea, Moonstone is okay, but that's only because there are characters like Bagman, Modern Hawkeye, Bullseye etc that are poorly concieved. She only stands out because the others are so bad/unusable.

Also, Moonstone only got that way because they had to rework her to make her more effective.

Power-wise, sure. Interesting abilities-wise (which is subjective, I know), I place Moonstone, Cap, Mags, Ares at the top for 2-stars. Oddly enough, I find 1-stars to be more interesting though, Juggs, m.Storm, Hawkeye, etc. Many 3-stars minus Rags are more fun than 2-stars too. Hood is my secret guilty pleasure that I hope stays underused in the meta for selfish reasons.

If the game wasn't so grindy and always rushing to beat the clock, Moonstone and Cap are quite enjoyable to use. I use them during LRs that I plan to hit 100 then tank, along with some others. It's fun.

Unknown

Bugpop wrote:

I find it hard to believe that wolverine's strike tiles add that much damage to make a difference in the Divine Champions tournament. Every time I've played against a team with wolverine, he's never been able to put out more than 1 strike tile, and said strike tile somehow tends to get matched by the AI in the same turn in which it was played.

I find it hard to believe that Spider-Man makes any real difference in the Divine Champions tournament. He's so squishy! All he ever does is stun a couple people for a turn or two, then die.

You're really assessing a character's effectiveness based on what the AI does with it? Feral Claws was capable of out-damaging Onslaught in Rage and Ruin, and Ares' stats were tripled there. The AI doesn't hold red to make it work properly and doesn't deliberately dot the board with isolated reds to tag. I'll certainly give you that I'd take C.Storm over Wolverine for this event in a heartbeat, though, if I had her usable. Actually using Hulk, but he just spectates.

Unknown

The Ladder wrote:

I'm not sure people really want a load of butter knives (love the analogy lol), rather they are sick of fighting the same opponents.

I don't like fighting Ragnarok - nerf him!

I don't like fighting Thor - nerf him!



Pretty sure most people would rather see characters be improved rather than nerfed, but the fights were getting quicker and quicker - not the intention of the devs apparently...

The sad part is the vast majority of the complaints pop up when the characters are buffed in some tournament. So, the user gets this unreal idea about how dangerous these characters are and go online and whine because of it. Every time there was a round of lightning rounds there were complaints about Rags and now every time Thor is buffed people complain.

You would think the devs would want to keep the characters the way they are because they are some of the few that actually do significant damage to the users (when used by the AI) and make them chew through health packs.

Oh well, the squeaky wheels always get the grease ...

Unknown

Toxicadam wrote:

The sad part is the vast majority of the complaints pop up when the characters are buffed in some tournament. So, the user gets this unreal idea about how dangerous these characters are and go online and whine because of it. Every time there was a round of lightning rounds there were complaints about Rags and now every time Thor is buffed people complain.

You would think the devs would want to keep the characters the way they are because they are one of the few that actually do significant damage to the users and make them chew through health packs.

Very good point, I guess Thor is viewed in a much poorer light here, because he is hitting twice as hard as normal. Even with buffed health, the psychological effect of being pounded for 2000-4000 by him seems to leave a sour taste in the mouth.

Unknown

Bugpop wrote:

I find it hard to believe that wolverine's strike tiles add that much damage to make a difference in the Divine Champions tournament. Every time I've played against a team with wolverine, he's never been able to put out more than 1 strike tile, and said strike tile somehow tends to get matched by the AI in the same turn in which it was played.

It does. You have an alternative win path, with much green you feed ares with just a little you use strikes. You lay them having red, so 2-3 is created from 3G. And they are mot matched, as you first pick up the red yourself... I noticed the AI completely ignores to kill strike tiles, they only get killed by accident.

Also cool to get rid of some green before onslought that would be overkill.

If you arrive on board that is mostly dry of r/g it counts even more, as all the offcolor picks will deal great damage for you -- and if you play obw dmg is doubled. Can't say how cool it is to grab purple for stealing and deal 1000+ enroute.

If you stockpile palette + red, you start with 2 swords. 4 if you add green too. If you chose that route on the board. the latter means 350-700 extra damage just from tiles.

darkmagearcanis

Toxicadam wrote:

The sad part is the vast majority of the complaints pop up when the characters are buffed in some tournament. So, the user gets this unreal idea about how dangerous these characters are and go online and whine because of it. Every time there was a round of lightning rounds there were complaints about Rags and now every time Thor is buffed people complain.

You would think the devs would want to keep the characters the way they are because they are some of the few that actually do significant damage to the users (when used by the AI) and make them chew through health packs.

Oh well, the squeaky wheels always get the grease ...

I agree with this. As the only time when I feel like complaining about characters is when they are buffed. Besides a non buffed team of OBW/Wolvie/Thor; my order of takedown is OBW/Wolvie/Thor. Thor isn't as big of a threat unless he is buffed. So my suggestion is to use him and move on or wait until the tourney is over that is using him buffed.

For the Divine tourney round 1 I am only going to 100 progression reward and moving on. I see no point in achieving higher levels when Thor can smack down my main meat shield in one move. I will most likely do this for the round 2 as well.

Unknown

Veracity wrote:

Bugpop wrote:

I find it hard to believe that wolverine's strike tiles add that much damage to make a difference in the Divine Champions tournament. Every time I've played against a team with wolverine, he's never been able to put out more than 1 strike tile, and said strike tile somehow tends to get matched by the AI in the same turn in which it was played.

I find it hard to believe that Spider-Man makes any real difference in the Divine Champions tournament. He's so squishy! All he ever does is stun a couple people for a turn or two, then die.

You're really assessing a character's effectiveness based on what the AI does with it? Feral Claws was capable of out-damaging Onslaught in Rage and Ruin, and Ares' stats were tripled there. The AI doesn't hold red to make it work properly and doesn't deliberately dot the board with isolated reds to tag. I'll certainly give you that I'd take C.Storm over Wolverine for this event in a heartbeat, though, if I had her usable. Actually using Hulk, but he just spectates.

I also find it hard to believe that people are complaining about their own characters doing too much damage against an opponent. Wolverine's strike tiles ARE powerful. I recall that two months ago people had no clue how effective he was. Getting out 6 strike tiles is no problem for wolverine. It just so happens if you have OBW with high enough Espianage and/or M. Storm on your team, you can get multiple attacks including his strike tiles every turn. If attack tiles are out, if OBW grabs black (again, with high enough espianage), and 6 strike tiles are out, thats an extra 1602 damage that turn, just from strike tiles.

We're fortunate that the AI doesn't use him well. People are complaining about their experiences with Thor/Wolv as an opponent

Unknown

The buff system (in general) has been a complete failure.

It doesn't give the new user a proper gauge about how effective a character can be (because the default character only has one cover and level 6 stats). It grossly inflates the advantages of the long-term user because they have these characters at near max stats. At the two star and three star level this advantage becomes ridiculously exponentional. It makes the tournaments less fun because you have to chew through mountains of hit points to secure the win. It has grossly inflated the utility of some heroes (like Wolverine or Spidey) because of their ability to deny or accentuate buffed characters. It has caused some of the more effective characters to be nerfed because their utility became game-breaking once buffed causing a cascade of complaints on the forums. It totally warped the crit tiles and their effect on damage/AP collection for environmental tiles. (Until they fixed it)

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more if I reflected on it more. Sorry if this comes across as whine, but it's bothered me since the first month of playing.

MarvelMan

Toxicadam wrote:

The buff system (in general) has been a complete failure.

It doesn't give the new user a proper gauge about how effective a character can be (because the default character only has one cover and level 6 stats). It grossly inflates the advantages of the long-term user because they have these characters at near max stats. At the two star and three star level this advantage becomes ridiculously exponentional. It makes the tournaments less fun because you have to chew through mountains of hit points to secure the win. It has grossly inflated the utility of some heroes (like Wolverine or Spidey) because of their ability to deny or accentuate buffed characters. It has caused some of the more effective characters to be nerfed because their utility became game-breaking once buffed causing a cascade of complaints on the forums. It totally warped the crit tiles and their effect on damage/AP collection for environmental tiles. (Until they fixed it)

That's just off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more if I reflected on it more. Sorry if this comes across as whine, but it's bothered me since the first month of playing.

Thank you. Completely agree. I felt that the Free For All was quite fun as it gave us a chance to PVP and see how we could do against more varied teams. Of course there was still a preponderance of Thorverine and Rag/BWGS teams depending on where people were, but I saw more variation there than in just about any other tourney.